Lets talk about Cali Custom springs, upper control arms and alighments

[pdqwrx]

OK, I have a 94 Q with Cali Springs and a huge Camber problem up front.The information I need is how much are people spacing the control arm bracket away from fender wall? 1/4 inch, 3/8's etc. to get the alignment closer to spec. Would someone be willing to look at how much longer the adjustable arm you have on the car is than the stock arm.

My plan is to pull off the bracket and weld flat steel to the backside to space it away and either counter sink the bolt holes to allow for enough threads or perhaps rebolt it on altogether with new hardware. Anyway, I might be able to duplicate them for alot less then the adgustable arms with no increase in NVH (Noise, vibration and Harshness).

Thanks in advance for any and all help'

Scott

[Q45tech]

Pull out your high school trig book! or use on web calculator: you know the length =26"/2 and 2 angles 90 and 0.7 [ideal camber] so the other angle is 83.3 degrees.

What is each wheels exact camber from alignment chart. 1 degree too much requires a 0.22" thick spacer to reduce.http://www.pagetutor.com/trigcalc/trig.html

[pdqwrx]

I wish I had a brain for math.....

ThanksScott

[mcastro]

My plan is to pull off the bracket and weld flat steel to the backside to space it away and either counter sink the bolt holes to allow for enough threads or perhaps rebolt it on altogether with new hardware. Anyway, I might be able to duplicate them for alot less then the adgustable arms with no increase in NVH (Noise, vibration and Harshness).

I had my alignment done after installing the Cali Customs. The camber reading was at -1.4 and -1.8 degrees (driver/passenger), for which the specified range is -1.6 to -0.1 degrees.

My understanding is that you can place shims between the upper link bracket and fender to bring the camber into spec, a lot simpler than what you're thinking of doing. The tech doing my alignment felt that it was negligible in my case.

[elwesso]

Scott, the best way to do it is while its at the alignment shop.. Get some thin washers, have them put a couple on, and check, once its good, do it ot the other side... Reason to do it this way is so both sides are the same.... probably will charge more but its worth it!

[pdqwrx]

I don't like the idea of washers because of the lack of surface area at the mounting location. I have the access to the flatstock and the welder and the grinder needed to do this for no money. I guess I can take it to the alignment shop and ask them to space the mounts with washers and reset the toe, then I can come back in and build my own spacers. Now I may be wrong but it would seem that just about every 1990-1996 Q45 with Cali Custom Springs will have a camber problem and mine is causing major tire wear issues. They are feathering and cupping really badly. It seems like I should be able to make a "Shim plate" that will alow any q45 owner with these springs and stock control arms to get the camber closer without spending the big money on adjstable arms, especially since I bought new Infiniti arms when I installed the springs and don't want to waste that money. I figured that if the average q owner exteded the control arm .5 inches that I would use that as a starting point for the shim. Thanks for all the replies.....

Scott

[elwesso]

Its proabbly because your toe is way off... -1.5 front camber wont really hurt anything SO LONG as the toe is corrected!!

BTW, they already make shim plates for the Z32 that work on the Q. Jeff has them on his Q.

[66mgb]

I had my alignment done after installing the Cali Customs. The camber reading was at -1.4 and -1.8 degrees (driver/passenger), for which the specified range is -1.6 to -0.1 degrees.

My understanding is that you can place shims between the upper link bracket and fender to bring the camber into spec, a lot simpler than what you're thinking of doing. The tech doing my alignment felt that it was negligible in my case.

Yea - my camber was slightly off on the rear also. The alignment shop said that the rear eccentric was maxed out.I'm considering the SPL rear adjustable upper link to compensate. I'm also thinking I'm going to have to roll the rear inner fender lips after the installation, since this will push the top of the wheel out by .22" or so to get back to spec.I just hate to ruin these tires prematurely!

[DrewQ45]

Just bolt the shim in... can't understand why you'd want to weld... that's asking for trouble. I think I saw some shims on the web somewhere once. If fabricating, I suppose the shims could be done in two pieces else you'd have to worry about the bend.

[Q45tech]

The problem is the extremely wide parameters of the oem acceptable limits to avoid warranty outlays in the beginning.............." hey it's in factory specs" 1'35"-------------0'05" camber - 1.583 degrees to - 0.083 degrees..

The MIDPOINT is - 0.7 degree camber and that correlates well with the -0.5 degree camber most high performance tires are designed to optimally function with in a curve.

The third link and the upper link wear and bend minutely [or grossly from a side impact].......the rubber deforms inward to increase the static negative camber............the shock towers bend inward under loads and eventually take a more negative set.

All this makes the usual negative camber more and more negative!

Anyway every car is different in camber when taken to TWO DECIMALS......all 50,000 will be different..........following a gaussian curve.

There is no one size fits all because you don't know how bad the existing situation is/was before lowering. A bad camber will be worse after lowering and requires a individual customized solution..........which must be watched for degradation............if I was setting camber I would use -0.5 as perfection allowing for MINUS 0.6>0.7>0.8>0.9 increases as things change after the shim installation.

ALL THE ABOVE ASSUME BRAND NEW UPPER LINKS ARE INSTALLED when the shimming is done.

IDEALLY the camber should be perfectly equal side to side with the drivers weight in the seal..............still the Q will handle differently left to right unless the weight on each front tire is EXACTLY the same and the polar moment is exactly the same [mass in front of springs left and right side].

As long as the cambers are equal the exact amount of camber is less important. However one should measure the camber at different roll angles to make sure the equality stays equal.........[a bent third link compensated with shims behind the upper link mount will have a different camber gain curve from a true [non bent] 3rd link and thus no shims on the opposite side.

To check the camber change you must use a chain hoist to pull down the front frame by 1>2>3" ~~~= 300>600>900 pounds of force on an alignment machine............jack the front up to see the converse.

These are the things every racer does in setting/designing suspension.

The another big problem in changing oem ride height is correcting the toe: tie rod to steering rack to hub angle ..........modifying the bump steer curve.

'

[Jeff Williams]

I bought a 300zx camber kit, for the Eibach springs. It included 8 new bolts and 4 new spacer plates for the front strut towers. I recall the spacer plates are about 3/8" to 1/2" thick. (I don't have my calipers with me, or the plates-they are still in the box, next to the Cali Custom springs still in their box, next to my adjustable rear upper links, still in their box, next to my rear subframe spacers, still in their box. I am betting on the fact that the Cali Customs do not drop the car the same as the Eibachs, so some spacers will have to be added during the alignment. Just bring a few burgers and cokes to the guys in the shop when you bring your car in. They will spend a little extra time getting it just right.

I too have brand new INFINITI upper links, so I didn't want to waste that money.

The kit cost about $50 off of eBay. I think I paid about $100 for the rear adjustable upper control arms.

A small price to pay, when you drive around on $1,000 worth of tires.

I have not looked into raising the steering rack, but I will seriously consider it, to keep the factory geometry. (I don't get paid enough by INFINITI, to redesign their ackerman or bumpsteer).

[elwesso]

bumpsteer isnt an issue for me, but if you guys think it is (it wont be), SPL makes an adjustable tie rod end you can get that will work on the Q

[66mgb]

Just curious - is there an issue w/ pinion angle?

[Q45tech]

What scares me as members are treating [as BRAND NEW] oem misalignment numbers as gosple for an old car with old bushings.

Somehow STATIC MISALIGNMENT must be checked at highway speed to determine what a new set of specs should be for the old used car.

Most measure tire temperatures and graph tread wear rates to CORRECT the oem numbers to today.

If you have inside wear you need more towards neutral positive camber PERIOD no if and or buts about it.