Let's talk beginner ecu tuning, and not EPROMS

[TTkickedin]

As you know, I want 500hp. I've been spreading this fact all over this forum like it's easy to do or something, which I guarantee is not an easy thing to do. BUT, I'm not letting the shear complexity of the build scare me away from it. This will be my first actual build. I've never tuned, I've never added huge turbos, but I'm not mechanically stupid and have built blocks before (subaru ej22 with a electrolysis sealed block I'm buying parts left and right, slowly piecing together my build, swallowing the fear behind getting everything installed then having to tune the b****.

So naturally, this isn't the first time I've ever looked into this subject either. The only thing that scared me away from doing a build before is the cost of ECU tuning (I've also been too broke for too long.) So I went to learn computers - hardware/software. I could theoretically do my tuning myself with how much I know about computers. Theoretically, the knowledge is there, Nico just needs to hand me a paddle and give me the final push before I dive into s***'s Creek without one.

NOW - originally I was just going to buy a chip for my ecu and end the story here, but I figured for me to reach high numbers while also keeping my engine healthy, I wanted to incorporate water injection, (most likely just water/alcohol 5050 mix.) No chip I know of has that function + 740-840cc injectors, gt2560r turbos, single pop, etc. Not to mention, I don't want to be sittin there in my 500hp z with a chip programmed for my exact setup, then be assed out when I want to go upgrade something that would take a day to install and tune, only to realize that If I do, my EPROM is worthless. I NEED THE POTENTIAL FOR GROWTH AFTER THE BUILD!!

This is where Zemulator comes into play ,(or an Apex'i Power FC..lol jk)

I will do it up with the zemulator, but I need to know where to start first.
- I need to know the interface,
- I need to know capabilities of the product,
- The restraints when I tune,
- Need to know what not to do, and what should be done,
- Things I need to keep in the back of my mind while I tune.

I'm not having a shop rob me of 1000 dollars for something I could do for just the cost of the zemulator, (i will, however, pay for dyno use.)

so advice for me to stay away from tuning, can go right back where the thought came from for the time being. I'll let you know what I can't comprehend, k? Good.

I have a laptop, I have the funds for the zemulator. What should I do? I was seriously thinking about finding a cheap TT ecu, buying that and a Zemulator and just Fcking with it until I develop a map worthy for my real ecu.

So without further ado - Can anyone hand me the paddle?

[TTkickedin]

Also If anyone has a Base Map for a single pop charger, gt28r sized turbos, 740cc or 840cc (850cc) injectors, etc. Let me know so i can take a look at it.

[300ZXttZMAN]

I don't know anything about this subject but I would love to learn.

[NissanFairladyZ32]

I hear Nistune is cheaper, and lots of Z guys use that to tune,

Specialty Z
Z Tuner
Ect ...

[TTkickedin]

Zemulator is 550 bucks outright and offers realtime car-running tuning. getting nistune set up and all that is around 700, and I've seen that many times, and I've read on a thread from zilvia that you can't use nistune for realtime tuning.

I think if i had access to some base maps, an ecu, and zemulator, i think i could do some serious tunes. I have a knack for computer stuff, this seems not much more difficult than trying to mod/hack an xbox game, or overclocking a cpu. just more costly things to worry about..like an engine.

Hopefully some informed peeps will come out of the woodwork for this. I've seen ecu tuning threads on other forums for other cars, can anyone make a similar thread from step 1 - zemulator at your door to step x - zemulator tuned making xxx whp and xxx ft/lbs torque?

After reading through the zemulator * [/end brainfart] * user manual, It seems that it should be easy enough.

[joebva]

Boom goes the dynamite...http://www.ztechz.net/id10.html

I will be doing the same, but am taking on a bigger challenge...the 96 TT.

Regards and happy tuning!

Joe

[TTkickedin]

^ Dude. That looks like a really complicated method of tuning, but easy at the same time because I know Hexadecimal/decimal/and binary.

But why though? The Zemulator is 550 bucks!

I mean, I could make money off tuning z32's, or anything else with the same style eprom, but is it worth it?

[vulcanrush]

As you know, I want 500hp. I've been spreading this fact all over this forum like it's easy to do or something, which I guarantee is not an easy thing to do. BUT, I'm not letting the shear complexity of the build scare me away from it. This will be my first actual build. I've never tuned, I've never added huge turbos, but I'm not mechanically stupid and have built blocks before (subaru ej22 with a electrolysis sealed block I'm buying parts left and right, slowly piecing together my build, swallowing the fear behind getting everything installed then having to tune the b****.

500hp isn't THAT tough, i have that almost (to the wheels), and on an auto.

NOW - originally I was just going to buy a chip for my ecu and end the story here, but I figured for me to reach high numbers while also keeping my engine healthy, I wanted to incorporate water injection, (most likely just water/alcohol 5050 mix.) No chip I know of has that function + 740-840cc injectors, gt2560r turbos, single pop, etc. Not to mention, I don't want to be sittin there in my 500hp z with a chip programmed for my exact setup, then be assed out when I want to go upgrade something that would take a day to install and tune, only to realize that If I do, my EPROM is worthless. I NEED THE POTENTIAL FOR GROWTH AFTER THE BUILD!!

This is where Zemulator comes into play ,(or an Apex'i Power FC..lol jk)

you don't need injection for 500hp, or even 500rwhp+. also, they have tuned for injection before, it's nothing new.
as for potential after the build, a shop like sz or ztuner can send you a reflashed chip, you would only be down for a few days.

[vulcanrush]

imo, the tune is the most important part of your build, i don't want to learn tuning, and test it out on my own car.

and i don't think nicoclub is the place to ask, the majority of the people here, with the exception of mark and tony (and not just because they're mods, but because they know what they're talking about)...(anton does also)...don't really know what they're talking about.

[TTkickedin]

you don't need injection for 500hp, or even 500rwhp+. also, they have tuned for injection before, it's nothing new.
as for potential after the build, a shop like sz or ztuner can send you a reflashed chip, you would only be down for a few days.

In my case, I would like to have the methanol/alcohol/water/whatever injection simply to reduce the chance of detonation and raise the amount of boost I can safely run, and on GT2560r turbos. I never mentioned that 500hp calls for it, just that it is an area of concern that I keep my engine at higher horsepower with added reliability.

Its going to be my daily driver until I can afford to get my own place, get a raise, then buy another daily driver. That's about a year and a half that I want this car running without me having to do anything besides a simple oil change or something that can be done over the weekend. Plenum pull and injectors aren't too big of a thing for me to worry about, so I don't really care what Injectors I buy as long as they have a warranty. (and aren't venoms.) Jecs will be fine.


Is it too much to ask for a reliabliy tuned meth injected daily driver with a 75% increase in Horsepower/Tq (+-)? There's shops everywhere that have 1000hp daily driver cars. And I'm struggling to comprehend half that.

imo, the tune is the most important part of your build, i don't want to learn tuning, and test it out on my own car.

Indeed it is. It just seemed like my only choice to get a zemulator. When I would look into an EPROM service, there was no option for meth injection, then again I've never contacted anyone about it, nor have I ever installed a meth injection but again I'm not stupid. I can do all of the above without an issue as long as I keep up with the information.

And i don't think nicoclub is the place to ask this either. the majority of the people here, with the exception of mark and tony (and not just because they're mods, but because they know what they're talking about)...(anton does also)...don't really know what they're talking about.

So I've began to figure. Nico is great for mechanical/exterior/suspension advice, but like many forums I've been to, there's a gray area in the tuning department.

Essentially I'm talking to people that would much rather pay someone else a 10x markup to do. I definitely hear what you're saying man. (No offense people of Nico, good resources here, great community nonetheless.)

I've been looking for an ecu tuning forum that people post up their tunes that work for the 300zx, to no avail. Do you have any in mind that I could possibly consult? I came across this, but it looks like a ghost town... http://ecu2.forumwise.com/ecu2-forum-1.html

[spiffy]

Zemulator is 550 bucks outright and offers realtime car-running tuning. getting nistune set up and all that is around 700, and I've seen that many times, and I've read on a thread from zilvia that you can't use nistune for realtime tuning.

By realtime tuning you mean you can alter the map while the engine is running right? If so, then YES YOU CAN!
I know this because I have used nistune myself. And I even got a decent map without ever having touched a tuning software...
And it also says on their website; realtime tuning software

Having looked at the zemulator I'd still use the nistune. Mainly because it looks nicer, seems to have more functions(like consult) and uses a USB connection instead of the old rs232 connector. And isn't Nistune around 450 AUD?? (I can't access their website right now)

[TTkickedin]

You have a PM!

[NissanFairladyZ32]

Yes Nistune is real time tuning ...

[300ZXttZMAN]

imo, the tune is the most important part of your build, i don't want to learn tuning, and test it out on my own car

I agree completely.

[TTkickedin]

If you can afford it, sport it. I, however, have no choice. Every single one of my paychekcs since I've started working has gone to my car in some way shape or form. I'm on my last 15 bucks and that has to pay for my bus fare plus food until next friday.

Self tuning is really my only option, and worth the learning experience. People will come to me for tunes eventually.


Realistically there can't be a way to totally brick the ecu unless it's shorted or you just full retard your timing and fuel map, and make everything a** backwards and upside down around the corner. Realistically, It can't be THAT hard to edit an ecu - sh*t is a linear programmed computer with no interface, therefore Predictable. Based of the sole properties of functions and commands.

I just need to learn how to edit it and what not to touch, and I'm probably way overthinking the actual program too. Zemulator/Nistune provide the GUI interface necessary to interpret the data without the guesswork behind converting hexadecimal code (happening to be placed neatly into cells according to rpm or voltage.) How hard can it get? I just think that the tuners aren't very happy about sharing their money-maker knowledge.

[NolimitZ32]

Nistune is 450 + 200 for Individual License and 50 shipping it comes out to be right around 700

Eli: its not that hard but it is possible to screw up the timing in one cell and a catastrophic event, it only takes one cell.

and these are famous last words "It can't be THAT hard"

[300ZXttZMAN]

Cleaned up the thread for you Eli.

[TTkickedin]

Thanks


I wonder if anyone knows about a Nissan version of PGMFI forums? I think something like that would help me out greatly. I like the approach that PGMFI set up for honda enthusiasts looking to make the most of their stock ecu.


Even nismotronic, that's an awesome program from the looks of it!

[zunich]

Newbie and just read your posts....So what ever became of your endeavor to be the "go to guru" of tuning? I hope you made it. Give us a little closure on this subject as we wish you well.

[NolimitZ32]

Sadly Eli did not make it to that status however there are a few good Z32 tuners scattered throughout the US and not to mention other very experienced guys doing all sorts of cars.