left foot braking

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underground57
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What is the benefit of using left foot braking for RWD? I get how it works for FWD and AWD (or at least I think I do). You control brake biasing which in turn counters understeer by locking the rear brakes and transferring weight to the front to give balanced steering or oversteer depending on the braking/throttle pressure used. Less throttle, more oversteer. More throttle, more understeer. I'm stumped on RWD. Is it the same principle? I've been able to do it for an auto FWD car before, but I'm kinda confused when it comes to a manual. When your left foot is on the brake, do you never need to depress the clutch? Is this technique "ok" for the stock transmission or should I upgrade or maintain it differently?

One other thing... I'm under the assumption that this technique does not work (or work as efficiently) with a car with ABS. Can anyone negate or verify this?


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Red coupe
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well as far as brake bias, all its doing is providing more force for the brakes to overcome, making the braking lighter then normal. In a FWD car you can do this to shift the brake bias backwards, but In a RWD car you would we shifting the bias forward...In a rwd car I think the biggest advantage would be not having to move your foot from the gas to the brake, having one foot already there saves the minimal amount of time It would take to move your foot. It probably wont help you out unless your doing some serious racing...

vvaffle
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Axel said he did it in autoX and it cut tim off his runs. If you are staying in the same gear throughout the whole corner it should work well. If you have to downshift though, you will have to heat to toe and then your left foot will be busy so theres no way to do it and there's no need to switch what foot you're using to brake once you already start braking.

KATwo40
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Perhaps I'm a bit bull-headed or uneducated about this but...

Wouldn't it be more useful and efficient to control throttle and brake inputs more precisely, rather than using one to counter the other? I mean, isn't it kinda like eating diet pills right before you down a bucket of KFC when a nice balanced diet would really do the trick?

No offense intended. Just an observation, if you will.

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Red coupe
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well most the time you would, but you still have to move your foot, doesn't seem like that long, but in racing, especially something like rally it can be beneficial to be able to stay on the throttle that extra lil bit of time...Also as mentioned before in a fwd car, it effectively increases the rear brake bias to help turn the car.

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underground57
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Here you go guys, a real non-speculated answer.

http://www.ahsdc.org/goblins/t...g.htm

Quote »McC: Now let's consider how left foot braking can be applied to a rear-drive car. Again, you are entering the corner too fast. What happens?

A: Normally, just before a corner you must get the car to drift slightly - and I mean slightly; I am very strictly against oversteering cars, which are going to much sideways. Let us say this car is perfect in handling - not oversteering, not understeering - it is neutral. So by putting full power on before the corner you have it drifting slightly, with the tail out a little. But now you find you have estimated the speed wrongly and the tail is going out more. You correct by steering the opposite way, but soon you will come to the full lock position - you cannot correct any more. And the car will be starting to spin. Now this is where you use the left foot instead of the steering wheel. Just before you reach the full lock position, and still keeping the power on to the rear wheels, you hit the brake pedal quite hard with your left foot. The front wheels lock and slide, so the front of the car comes back to the right direction for the corner.

McC: In fact, this is the exact reverse of the effect achieved with the FWD car?

A: Yes, but there are other advantages, too. When you are drifting nicely, with equal grip for all four wheels, it often happens that the inside rear wheel starts to lift. If you have no limited-slip differential, this wheel will immediately start to spin - and then you will lose all driving power to the other wheel. By using the left foot on the brake you can stop the inside wheel spinning and make more torque go to the outside wheel. It sounds very strange but it is true. Another advantage, for all cars, is this. With the brakes on; you cause a certain twist in the suspension which locks the joints and makes them stiffer. This makes the car more stable - there is less roll, it does not bounce and sway too much. That is very important.[/quote]So if I understand this correctly, it doesn't really have anything to do with saving time, but more about steering correction and preventing possibly hazardous counter oversteer. Also, if I'm not mistaken, all downshifting is done prior to the corner and not in the corner, so your left foot is in fact free until the corner exit where you need to upshift. The reason why this technique is more heavily used in rallying is because the cars that are used most of the time are either FWD or AWD. The AWD system that is used (think STi & EVO) is front biased (unlike the GT-R's ATTESA which is rear biased), so it reacts similarly to that of a FWD car.
Modified by underground57 at 5:56 PM 11/29/2005

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Red coupe
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lots of race car drives use left foot brakingfor situations other then to just lock the front wheels and understeer to prevent a spin...And how many race cars are lifting wheels, but dont have some forum of LSD...

vvaffle
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If it doesn't have a clutch pedal, I would brake with my left foot. It definetly saves time because you don't have to shift from pedal to pedal. I'm still practicing left foot braking when there is a clutch pedal though. The clutch sometimes gets in my way. Also, it doesn't matter if you downshifted before the corner, once you heal to toe, your right foot is already on the brake so theres no need to use your left foot unless you want to stab the brake mid corner to lose traction at the front.

Shift_Tommy
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a different technique to heel and toe and he uses left foot braking alothttp://video.google.com/videop...honda

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troppop
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The STi's are rear biased, supplemental front. Exact opposite of EVO's which are obsurdly FF for the most part with supplemental rear. It's like 70% front wheel, and 30% rear or something. Just my .02$^_^

Nismo_Freak
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Left foot braking in a FWD has everything to do with keeping the front end planted down and the front tires loaded. The natural brake bias will create a pivoting motion in any car regardless of drivetrain, it doesn't shift the bias, it makes the front end slow faster than the rear.

Hell I use left foot braking on my daily commute home every day.


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