Laundry list of items for latest dealer visit

[Ilya]

This car has been a little more problematic than my 07 M35x (which almost never went to the dealer). Here is the latest list of things I need the dealer to look at (copy and paste from my email to the adviser).

Anyone else experiencing any of these?

1. Investigate heated/cooled front seats. Per everything I’ve read and other owners I’ve talked to, the heat and cold should be noticeable and strong enough to warrant turning off the system after some time (cause discomfort). I can use my heat and my cooling 24/7 without any discomfort. Heating works about 7/10 while cooling is probably a 1/10. From my studying of the factory service manual, I’d like the ‘thermoelectric units’ investigated as they may be the issue. I have steam cleaned the seats and cleaned the seat filters within the last few months. It has made little to no difference. From my testing recently, the driver seat heats at about 85-95F while the passenger is 85-115F. Cooling is about 65-73F across the board for both seats.
2. Neither of my key fobs work even after 4 brand new batteries were tested. Only one fob starts the car when put really close to the start button. Possible electrical/programming issue. Might be related to ITB08-051/ITB13-052.
3. On warmer/hot days, after the timing chain recall work was done, the AC system lets out of a ‘whine’ when the car is turned off for a minute or so. This did not happen prior to the AC service as part of the timing chain recall. This only happens on warm days. Please examine the AC system and re-pressurize, re-fill, etc. as needed.
4. Navigation screen sometimes flickers upon startup of the vehicle. Turning the car off and back on or turning the display off and back on will usually fix it. Happens often enough to be noticeable. Probably 2 or 3 out of 10 startups.
5. At night, upon initiation of heavy braking, the headlights will flicker once very quickly. More of a blip. This has been that way since I’ve owned the car (Nov 2014), but figured I’d get that on the list. May be related to ITB10-027A?
6. Engine seems to be knocking from a variety of gas stations more frequently the last couple of weeks but upon my last fill-up has seemed to quiet down again. I usually fill up 16-17 gallons so there shouldn’t be much mixing of gas from various stations. I also use a can of Seafoam or Gumout/Chevron every 3-4kmi.
7. Transmission or engine seem to struggle at times and lag, please confirm in writing that all necessary ECU/TCM TSB's have been performed (ITB12-021b and ITB11-008a in particular)
8. Perform all available TSB's and recalls such as the following and please provide me with a status of each (not applicable, done, etc.):
   • ITB10-066b (Navigation/Bluetooth/Voice Software Update)
   • ITB11-010 (Peeling steering wheel)
   • ITB11-047b (Bluetooth Sound Quality)
   • ITB11-046a (Call Waiting Navigation Update)
   • ITB12-010a/ITB15-017 (Fuel Rail Re-torque)
   • ITB10-040 (Air/Fuel Ratio Sensor)

[reggiebrown40]

On points 1 4 and 5 I'm wondering if you have a bad ground wire somewhere. I'd make them check continuity on all of the wiring. On point 2 I'd say both remotes are bad- the chip in the first one is bad or needs to be reprogrammed because it no longer communicates; the circuit board on the 2nd one because it doesn't accept battery voltage. Just a guess.

On point 6, yes, lots more engine noise and knocking. I'm getting a bouncy tach needle which leads me to believe there's a vaccum leak.
On point 7, yes. unresponsive as hell......

[ArmedAviator]

• Investigate heated/cooled front seats. Per everything I’ve read and other owners I’ve talked to, the heat and cold should be noticeable and strong enough to warrant turning off the system after some time (cause discomfort). I can use my heat and my cooling 24/7 without any discomfort. Heating works about 7/10 while cooling is probably a 1/10. From my studying of the factory service manual, I’d like the ‘thermoelectric units’ investigated as they may be the issue. I have steam cleaned the seats and cleaned the seat filters within the last few months. It has made little to no difference. From my testing recently, the driver seat heats at about 85-95F while the passenger is 85-115F. Cooling is about 65-73F across the board for both seats.

I've never turned my cooled seat off in the summer even on long drives. It doesn't get too cold. I think different people have different estimates of temperatures.

• Neither of my key fobs work even after 4 brand new batteries were tested. Only one fob starts the car when put really close to the start button. Possible electrical/programming issue. Might be related to ITB08-051/ITB13-052.

Based on your other issues, you might have an electronic connection issue. The transponder antenna could also be going bad.

• On warmer/hot days, after the timing chain recall work was done, the AC system lets out of a ‘whine’ when the car is turned off for a minute or so. This did not happen prior to the AC service as part of the timing chain recall. This only happens on warm days. Please examine the AC system and re-pressurize, re-fill, etc. as needed.

This is probably normal operation due to the high-low pressure sides

• Navigation screen sometimes flickers upon startup of the vehicle. Turning the car off and back on or turning the display off and back on will usually fix it. Happens often enough to be noticeable. Probably 2 or 3 out of 10 startups.

This may be related to an electrical gremlin with other issues or just a bad screen.

• At night, upon initiation of heavy braking, the headlights will flicker once very quickly. More of a blip. This has been that way since I’ve owned the car (Nov 2014), but figured I’d get that on the list. May be related to ITB10-027A?

Another likely electrical connection issue symptom.

• Engine seems to be knocking from a variety of gas stations more frequently the last couple of weeks but upon my last fill-up has seemed to quiet down again. I usually fill up 16-17 gallons so there shouldn’t be much mixing of gas from various stations. I also use a can of Seafoam or Gumout/Chevron every 3-4kmi.

Stop using these products. There is equal evidence to them being "snake oil" as they are of any help. I used to do the Seafoam vacuum induction cleaning and Techron fuel additives every so often on my first car. Waste of money. A modern engine, with good fuel will have few issues that these chemicals can help out. It's better to just get the engine up in RPM every so often to clean out any carbon. It's also (mostly) free. I've run 87 Octane in my 2012 M37x a few times now and not once has it knocked. This is with the stock tune, however. Perhaps your tune is at fault.

• Transmission or engine seem to struggle at times and lag, please confirm in writing that all necessary ECU/TCM TSB's have been performed (ITB12-021b and ITB11-008a in particular)

When you say lag, do you mean when punching the gas it doesn't downshift right away? I've noticed in my M37x that when I punch the gas on the highway that the transmission seems to rev-match while down-shifting into the lower gear before you experience any acceleration. This is not what I would have expected, but it seems to be normal function.

• Perform all available TSB's and recalls such as the following and please provide me with a status of each (not applicable, done, etc.):
  • ITB10-066b (Navigation/Bluetooth/Voice Software Update)
  • ITB11-010 (Peeling steering wheel)
  • ITB11-047b (Bluetooth Sound Quality)
  • ITB11-046a (Call Waiting Navigation Update)
  • ITB12-010a/ITB15-017 (Fuel Rail Re-torque)
  • ITB10-040 (Air/Fuel Ratio Sensor)

Can't comment on any of this.

[Ilya]

On points 1 4 and 5 I'm wondering if you have a bad ground wire somewhere. I'd make them check continuity on all of the wiring. On point 2 I'd say both remotes are bad- the chip in the first one is bad or needs to be reprogrammed because it no longer communicates; the circuit board on the 2nd one because it doesn't accept battery voltage. Just a guess.

On point 6, yes, lots more engine noise and knocking. I'm getting a bouncy tach needle which leads me to believe there's a vaccum leak.
On point 7, yes. unresponsive as hell......

Yeah my guess is something electrical (adviser mentioned BCM because they did change that for another issue I had before). Maybe it's flaking out.

• Investigate heated/cooled front seats. Per everything I’ve read and other owners I’ve talked to, the heat and cold should be noticeable and strong enough to warrant turning off the system after some time (cause discomfort). I can use my heat and my cooling 24/7 without any discomfort. Heating works about 7/10 while cooling is probably a 1/10. From my studying of the factory service manual, I’d like the ‘thermoelectric units’ investigated as they may be the issue. I have steam cleaned the seats and cleaned the seat filters within the last few months. It has made little to no difference. From my testing recently, the driver seat heats at about 85-95F while the passenger is 85-115F. Cooling is about 65-73F across the board for both seats.

I've never turned my cooled seat off in the summer even on long drives. It doesn't get too cold. I think different people have different estimates of temperatures.

• Neither of my key fobs work even after 4 brand new batteries were tested. Only one fob starts the car when put really close to the start button. Possible electrical/programming issue. Might be related to ITB08-051/ITB13-052.

Based on your other issues, you might have an electronic connection issue. The transponder antenna could also be going bad.

• On warmer/hot days, after the timing chain recall work was done, the AC system lets out of a ‘whine’ when the car is turned off for a minute or so. This did not happen prior to the AC service as part of the timing chain recall. This only happens on warm days. Please examine the AC system and re-pressurize, re-fill, etc. as needed.

This is probably normal operation due to the high-low pressure sides

• Navigation screen sometimes flickers upon startup of the vehicle. Turning the car off and back on or turning the display off and back on will usually fix it. Happens often enough to be noticeable. Probably 2 or 3 out of 10 startups.

This may be related to an electrical gremlin with other issues or just a bad screen.

• At night, upon initiation of heavy braking, the headlights will flicker once very quickly. More of a blip. This has been that way since I’ve owned the car (Nov 2014), but figured I’d get that on the list. May be related to ITB10-027A?

Another likely electrical connection issue symptom.

• Engine seems to be knocking from a variety of gas stations more frequently the last couple of weeks but upon my last fill-up has seemed to quiet down again. I usually fill up 16-17 gallons so there shouldn’t be much mixing of gas from various stations. I also use a can of Seafoam or Gumout/Chevron every 3-4kmi.

Stop using these products. There is equal evidence to them being "snake oil" as they are of any help. I used to do the Seafoam vacuum induction cleaning and Techron fuel additives every so often on my first car. Waste of money. A modern engine, with good fuel will have few issues that these chemicals can help out. It's better to just get the engine up in RPM every so often to clean out any carbon. It's also (mostly) free. I've run 87 Octane in my 2012 M37x a few times now and not once has it knocked. This is with the stock tune, however. Perhaps your tune is at fault.

• Transmission or engine seem to struggle at times and lag, please confirm in writing that all necessary ECU/TCM TSB's have been performed (ITB12-021b and ITB11-008a in particular)

When you say lag, do you mean when punching the gas it doesn't downshift right away? I've noticed in my M37x that when I punch the gas on the highway that the transmission seems to rev-match while down-shifting into the lower gear before you experience any acceleration. This is not what I would have expected, but it seems to be normal function.

• Perform all available TSB's and recalls such as the following and please provide me with a status of each (not applicable, done, etc.):
  • ITB10-066b (Navigation/Bluetooth/Voice Software Update)
  • ITB11-010 (Peeling steering wheel)
  • ITB11-047b (Bluetooth Sound Quality)
  • ITB11-046a (Call Waiting Navigation Update)
  • ITB12-010a/ITB15-017 (Fuel Rail Re-torque)
  • ITB10-040 (Air/Fuel Ratio Sensor)

Can't comment on any of this.

Yep, beauty of still having a warranty for the next 3kmi...hence why I'm getting all of this looked at before it expires and/or getting it on paper that I reported it incase something fails right outside of warranty.

The AC whine is definitely not normal. No car I have EVER owned has done that (and I've owned 4 Nissans/Infiniti's total). And it only started after I got the car back from the timing chain work at which point there was a 'water slushing' sound in the system and I had no AC (they had to recharge the system after I never left the lot). I had the car for 2 years up to that point and basically two summers and never heard that whine before.

As for the fuel products, we can agree to disagree. Not sure if you've ever taken the intake manifold and valve covers off on a car, but I have. I've taken them off on cars that never ran product and cars that ran product (along with the highest grade of gasoline) and the level of dirt, sludge, etc. is definitely noticeable. I also put about a cap or two of seafoam in with each oil change and change it at 5kmi religiously. My M35x was traded in with 142kmi with not even so much as an engine sneeze, ran strong every damn day with 93 premium, fuel add. in the tank, and a 'maintenance dose' (as I call it) of seafoam with each oil change. As for the tune, I would highly doubt the tune would be the cause of my knocking/pinging because I've had that tune for more than a year and the knocking JUST started recently.

The lag is more of an issue if you're going up a hill and apply throttle to maintain, say, 40mph but instead the car slowly slows down. You need to give more gas than necessary (than you normally would) to maintain that 40mph and you can feel the car not wanting to give power (sometimes studdering). Then, all of a sudden, it behaves fine. If you punch the gas/go WOT, the car behaves normally. I don't remember noticing this prior to the timing chain work being done, but that may be just my mind playing games with me.

[Larz]

The lag you mention on going uphill is strange. I only have the 3.5HR engine with the 7-spd gear box and each time I am on an incline, the second the car seems to slow, the gear box downshifts and maintains speed automatically. Is it possible the newer gear box or maybe the newer program in the gear box no longer does that?
As for the seafoam I would suspect it's snake oil had I not seen clinical documented evidence on the pistons when the same piston on the same engine in the same car was thoroughly tested before and after treatment with seafoam.

[ArmedAviator]

As for the fuel products, we can agree to disagree. Not sure if you've ever taken the intake manifold and valve covers off on a car, but I have. I've taken them off on cars that never ran product and cars that ran product (along with the highest grade of gasoline) and the level of dirt, sludge, etc. is definitely noticeable. I also put about a cap or two of seafoam in with each oil change and change it at 5kmi religiously. My M35x was traded in with 142kmi with not even so much as an engine sneeze, ran strong every damn day with 93 premium, fuel add. in the tank, and a 'maintenance dose' (as I call it) of seafoam with each oil change. As for the tune, I would highly doubt the tune would be the cause of my knocking/pinging because I've had that tune for more than a year and the knocking JUST started recently.

I have pulled intake manifolds off before. I've pulled heads off before, too. Not from a Nissan engine, however. I used to believe in Seafoam, then switched to Auto-Rx and used their product for some time. On my last car and this current car, I've not used even a drop of any type of additive in oil, induction, or fuel. No problems related to these systems. Advertising works, so use whatever product makes you happy. It likely won't hurt anything.

The lag is more of an issue if you're going up a hill and apply throttle to maintain, say, 40mph but instead the car slowly slows down. You need to give more gas than necessary (than you normally would) to maintain that 40mph and you can feel the car not wanting to give power (sometimes studdering). Then, all of a sudden, it behaves fine. If you punch the gas/go WOT, the car behaves normally. I don't remember noticing this prior to the timing chain work being done, but that may be just my mind playing games with me.

This is indeed weird behavior. Can you reproduce this issue with the stock tune?

[Ilya]

I use Auto Rx as well, when I first buy a car and before I start using synthetic oil.

And yes, I have been able to reproduce it with the UpRev completely removed from the ECU. Pretty sure this didn't happen with either tune before the timing chain work but it sounds like a software issue so not sure...definitely weird. I'm hoping they update all of my software via the TSB'S and we'll go from there.

[reggiebrown40]

Ilya,

Are you going to hand over a list of what you want checked out? From my experience it seems that dealers are willing to look at 1 or 2 things at the most. Especially when they are TSB's where they can say "functions as designed" or "replaced/repaired already"

Just a thought. I mean, you may be cool with your repair guy so it might work out different.

[Ilya]

Ilya,

Are you going to hand over a list of what you want checked out? From my experience it seems that dealers are willing to look at 1 or 2 things at the most. Especially when they are TSB's where they can say "functions as designed" or "replaced/repaired already"

Just a thought. I mean, you may be cool with your repair guy so it might work out different.

Yep. And let them tell me they only want to look at one or two things, I will put them on blast and call HQ/BBB. I'm not above that stuff lol.

My adviser Lisa is a good one, always takes care of me. She printed the list out and stapled it to the work order for the tech to read over.

[Ilya]

So, got the car back and they did/looked at pretty much everything I had on my list. The main stuff was resolved (keys, etc.) but some of the minor stuff was, IMO, glossed over.

1. Seats - they tested them and unfortunately they were 'within spec' so declined to do any work.
2. Key fob issue - wasn't the BCM but both of my remotes. Wasn't a battery issue. REALLY odd that both remotes completely died at pretty much the same time.
3. AC whine - due to temps outside, couldn't replicate issue but seems to think it's the high/low pressure equalizing. Did not get an answer as to why this started after the recall work was done but they checked the system for leaks, etc. and all was well.
4. Flickering screen - Replaced the screen per the TSB which worked out in my favor as the carwash place I use (inside outside place) scratched my original somehow (very faint but I knew it was there)
5. Headlight blip issue - was told that when you apply the brakes in certain situations there is a large draw on the alternator which may cause such minor blips in electronics elsewhere. Not sure I bought this but I didn't think arguing or asking for a better explanation would serve a purpose.
6. Engine knocking issue - tech suggested that because gas stations are transitioning to 'winter fuel' and because of my use of additives (which have a lot of alcohol content) this may be contributing to the pinging/knocking. I will do my own investigation and not put UpRev/my tune back on the car for a few weeks and see if I'm still knocking.
7. Transmission/engine lag - confirmed I have all of the latest updates and not much was done here. I will again leave UpRev off the car for a while and see if I notice it.
8. Took care of the TSB's and showed that the others were already done

EDIT: Oh, and they replaced the peeling steering wheel trim per the ITB/TSB.

[reggiebrown40]

I would ask them to test the load on the alternator. #5 seems like the most BS answer I've ever heard. It may not seem like a worthwhile thing to pursue now, but 1000 miles down the road and them saying you need a new alternator seems too realistic to me....

Transitioning to winter fuel would mean gas stations are adding more ethanol to their fuel. I thought that was to prevent knocking?

I get frustrated by the half-a$$ed answers and the "could not duplicate issue" replies from the service techs.

[Ilya]

Can the alternator be tested while on the car? Might just go to the parts store and have them load test it. But I'm not about to take it off.

And yeah, it frustrates me too.

[reggiebrown40]

Not sure, Ilya but I think you can test both ways. Off-car would probably be more reliable I think because there would be no load present.

[Ilya]

Well if anything it's documented that I took it in for a light concern so...per the adviser I should keep an eye on it and notify them if anything happens.

[Larz]

Glad to see they worked on your list. As you said, if any of the issues they did not resolve come back to nibble, you have documentation that you brought it to their attention and that should cover you.
On a side note, Congrats on getting engaged! (Just catching up on your other website, LOL). Next thing is to come up with a nick-name for the misses. Fetucini got hers out of pure necessity and based partly on being from Italy plus a jumble of her real last name: Ciannelli Di Fertitta). Think that's a long one? Her first name is Aniella Maria and her middle name is Alessandra! Imagine putting all that on a table seating card!

[Ilya]

Glad to see they worked on your list. As you said, if any of the issues they did not resolve come back to nibble, you have documentation that you brought it to their attention and that should cover you.
On a side note, Congrats on getting engaged! (Just catching up on your other website, LOL). Next thing is to come up with a nick-name for the misses. Fetucini got hers out of pure necessity and based partly on being from Italy plus a jumble of her real last name: Ciannelli Di Fertitta). Think that's a long one? Her first name is Aniella Maria and her middle name is Alessandra! Imagine putting all that on a table seating card!

Thanks! hah.

My name is quite long as well. Last name is 11 letters. First and middle name are Ilya Volodimirovich lol (Ukrainian).

[ArmedAviator]

• Key fob issue - wasn't the BCM but both of my remotes. Wasn't a battery issue. REALLY odd that both remotes completely died at pretty much the same time.

This actually makes sense since these key FOBs are continuously transmitting a faint signal to be received by the vehicle xpander antenna. Pressing the buttons uses just little more energy for a small moment.

• AC whine - due to temps outside, couldn't replicate issue but seems to think it's the high/low pressure equalizing. Did not get an answer as to why this started after the recall work was done but they checked the system for leaks, etc. and all was well.

Pretty much what I expected. Why it didn't do it before....it probably did, maybe you never listened as closely. Every car I've had owned or ridden in did that if you're near the front shortly after the A/C and engine was turned off.

• Headlight blip issue - was told that when you apply the brakes in certain situations there is a large draw on the alternator which may cause such minor blips in electronics elsewhere. Not sure I bought this but I didn't think arguing or asking for a better explanation would serve a purpose.

This is B.S. Stock idle RPM in gear is 600 IIRC. Even if braking hard, it may drop down to about 500 but no lower (and I've never seen this happen on mine - it always downshifts quickly to aid in braking, even in Normal or ECO modes). The alternator may stop producing charge that low especially when load is applied, however all of the electronics in the vehicle should work no problem as low as 11.0V, well below a fully charged battery voltage. For the moment the alternator is too slow to charge, the system voltage should not drop below 12V (and that's being pessimistic). Dimming is to be expected but not turn off. Maybe your ballasts have a bad voltage regulator?

• Engine knocking issue - tech suggested that because gas stations are transitioning to 'winter fuel' and because of my use of additives (which have a lot of alcohol content) this may be contributing to the pinging/knocking. I will do my own investigation and not put UpRev/my tune back on the car for a few weeks and see if I'm still knocking.

As mentioned above, winter mix is either the same as summer mix or has more ethanol added which will reduce the chance of detonation.

[Ilya]

• Key fob issue - wasn't the BCM but both of my remotes. Wasn't a battery issue. REALLY odd that both remotes completely died at pretty much the same time.

This actually makes sense since these key FOBs are continuously transmitting a faint signal to be received by the vehicle xpander antenna. Pressing the buttons uses just little more energy for a small moment.

• AC whine - due to temps outside, couldn't replicate issue but seems to think it's the high/low pressure equalizing. Did not get an answer as to why this started after the recall work was done but they checked the system for leaks, etc. and all was well.

Pretty much what I expected. Why it didn't do it before....it probably did, maybe you never listened as closely. Every car I've had owned or ridden in did that if you're near the front shortly after the A/C and engine was turned off.

• Headlight blip issue - was told that when you apply the brakes in certain situations there is a large draw on the alternator which may cause such minor blips in electronics elsewhere. Not sure I bought this but I didn't think arguing or asking for a better explanation would serve a purpose.

This is B.S. Stock idle RPM in gear is 600 IIRC. Even if braking hard, it may drop down to about 500 but no lower (and I've never seen this happen on mine - it always downshifts quickly to aid in braking, even in Normal or ECO modes). The alternator may stop producing charge that low especially when load is applied, however all of the electronics in the vehicle should work no problem as low as 11.0V, well below a fully charged battery voltage. For the moment the alternator is too slow to charge, the system voltage should not drop below 12V (and that's being pessimistic). Dimming is to be expected but not turn off. Maybe your ballasts have a bad voltage regulator?

• Engine knocking issue - tech suggested that because gas stations are transitioning to 'winter fuel' and because of my use of additives (which have a lot of alcohol content) this may be contributing to the pinging/knocking. I will do my own investigation and not put UpRev/my tune back on the car for a few weeks and see if I'm still knocking.

As mentioned above, winter mix is either the same as summer mix or has more ethanol added which will reduce the chance of detonation.

Nope. Whine is definitely new. I have the hearing of a dog (I'm a musician). I hear things that people would normally never hear lol. I hear every creak or rattle in any car and it drives me insane. This is definitely not normal. No rental car or family member car or car I own has EVER audibly equalized pressure. I've taken my car (07 M35x) to FL in the middle of summer (August, average temp of 105 in Tampa that week).

I don't know if they turn off completely or just dim greatly, because it's only like a millisecond but again, my senses are very 'in tune' and I can see it blip for a split second but for some reason only when I brake hard which usually happens just before I turn into my driveway as I live in the sticks and fly up and down my road at 75-80mph and then get on the brakes hard before the last turn lol. If I'm taking a turn at 30mph and hit the brakes, nothing happens.

[Snake31]

EDIT: Oh, and they replaced the peeling steering wheel trim per the ITB/TSB.

Were you still under bumper-to-bumper warranty when they replaced the peeling steering wheel trim? I asked my dealer about this when I had the timing chain recall done but they would not do it under warranty because my bumper-to-bumper had expired. They did provide me with a quote of about $2k to replace the whole steering wheel though. They informed me that the replacement pieces were not available like the TSB states.

[Ilya]

EDIT: Oh, and they replaced the peeling steering wheel trim per the ITB/TSB.

Were you still under bumper-to-bumper warranty when they replaced the peeling steering wheel trim? I asked my dealer about this when I had the timing chain recall done but they would not do it under warranty because my bumper-to-bumper had expired. They did provide me with a quote of about $2k to replace the whole steering wheel though. They informed me that the replacement pieces were not available like the TSB states.

I was/am under the Infiniti Elite extended plan. I have like 40 miles left on it...so sometime thursday it'll expire