Curb weight is without gasoline [22.5 x 6.2=140 pounds] and nothing in trunk or glove box......no driver....and oem tires and wheels..............4125-4200.
With my 165 pounds I use 4300 for my 1990 Q plus the 200 pounds of junk in the trunk.
Most grossly underestimate the real weight of as loaded Q.Each 100 pounds increases 0-60 by about 0.1 secs.
Latenight mod to the Q....
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Air filters are speced at 1.5" WC restriction [how much they flow at that restriction] K&N and oem use the same SAE test.1.5/28=0.0535714 PSI is the pressure drop. AT 6900 rpm!!!!!
14.7 psi less 0.535714=14.646429 PSI ...HOWEVER the air box and hoses in front of air box have 3-4 times more restriction than the filter.
If you have 13-14" WC TOTAL restriction just after MAF with an oem filter you will decrease this by 0.5-0.7" WC with a K&N panel filter replacement...........but 5% of almost nothing is not much improvement. If you remove the filter [use no filter] you will see it drop by 1.5" WC to 11.5-12.5" WC [after the MAF]..............if you use no air box/air intake system just the oem funnel or a K&N base mount [no cone filter], it will drop to 7-7.5-8.0" WC.
6-7" WC improvement is worth 7/28= 0.25 x 6.6=1.65% more flow into the throttle body [proved by decrease in plenum vacuum.
Thats 5 HP on a 300 HP engine at peak rpm with a wide open exposed MAF..........unfortunately if you use a tube to get cold air to the MAF the tube will create a flow restriction..
The 1.65% is the equivalent of 11F x 1.65=18F lower air temperature, unfortunately the underhood or even tube flow air under hood are hotter than the outside air temperature.
I've tried to example this 6 different ways [in previous posts] so hopefully this method will be clearer.
All the money people waste on air intakes and after cat exhaust mods is easily overshadowed by the gains of the JWT ecu swap by 3-4-5 times. [on the 90-95Q].
14.7 psi less 0.535714=14.646429 PSI ...HOWEVER the air box and hoses in front of air box have 3-4 times more restriction than the filter.
If you have 13-14" WC TOTAL restriction just after MAF with an oem filter you will decrease this by 0.5-0.7" WC with a K&N panel filter replacement...........but 5% of almost nothing is not much improvement. If you remove the filter [use no filter] you will see it drop by 1.5" WC to 11.5-12.5" WC [after the MAF]..............if you use no air box/air intake system just the oem funnel or a K&N base mount [no cone filter], it will drop to 7-7.5-8.0" WC.
6-7" WC improvement is worth 7/28= 0.25 x 6.6=1.65% more flow into the throttle body [proved by decrease in plenum vacuum.
Thats 5 HP on a 300 HP engine at peak rpm with a wide open exposed MAF..........unfortunately if you use a tube to get cold air to the MAF the tube will create a flow restriction..
The 1.65% is the equivalent of 11F x 1.65=18F lower air temperature, unfortunately the underhood or even tube flow air under hood are hotter than the outside air temperature.
I've tried to example this 6 different ways [in previous posts] so hopefully this method will be clearer.
All the money people waste on air intakes and after cat exhaust mods is easily overshadowed by the gains of the JWT ecu swap by 3-4-5 times. [on the 90-95Q].
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Thank you Dennis for clarifying that your earlier posts on this topic meant what I thought they meant. For teh degree of protection the stock intake filtration system provides for extending engine life, there is very little power to be gained by disabling it or altering the stock exhaust, for that matter.
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AZhitman
- Administrator
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- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
Yep.
But here's my challenge: After I buy the G-Tech, I'll crack off a few runs. 0-60, 1/4 mile, and lateral G's.
I'll send the G-Tech to someone with a well-maintained stock Q. They can follow suit. Then it can go to Fred, Andy, Rob, Todd, Wes, and others with various stages of modifications and we'll chart the results. Should make for some interesting discussion.
Dennis, you are in charge of adjusting the results for temperature, altitude and barometric pressure for the date and location of the testing.
Not for the sake of disagreeing, mind you. Simply to compare where each car falls in the hierarchy.
I can't get a local Q owner to run against me for anything, and I suspect most of the local Q's are so ragged out, they'd fall on their face anyway.
No BS, no pride - if you suspect you won't like the outcome, don't participate. So this should be fun - May the fastest Q win.
But here's my challenge: After I buy the G-Tech, I'll crack off a few runs. 0-60, 1/4 mile, and lateral G's.
I'll send the G-Tech to someone with a well-maintained stock Q. They can follow suit. Then it can go to Fred, Andy, Rob, Todd, Wes, and others with various stages of modifications and we'll chart the results. Should make for some interesting discussion.
Dennis, you are in charge of adjusting the results for temperature, altitude and barometric pressure for the date and location of the testing.
Not for the sake of disagreeing, mind you. Simply to compare where each car falls in the hierarchy.
I can't get a local Q owner to run against me for anything, and I suspect most of the local Q's are so ragged out, they'd fall on their face anyway.
No BS, no pride - if you suspect you won't like the outcome, don't participate. So this should be fun - May the fastest Q win.
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Not on public roads! How fast are we going to test? I thought we were going for the hallowed (and largely irrelevant) 0-60 times and G forces (does the device record?). Quarter mile times will send me scouting for an airfield or something. Tougher in PC Seattle. Maybe DiamondJ can help me there. I think we should include 50-90 mph runs as they are somewhat more meaningful.
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....60295-
maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
So it doesn't record G forces?AZhitman wrote:Device records ALL measurements, can be set to compare and retain "best times". Check out the site.
I'm not certain if it does the 50-90 test...
But you should be able to get a 1/4 mile run on an on-ramp at night, right? No more illegal than a 50-90 punch.
Ramps are a problem in that they involve elevation changes. I could come off the pass on I90 and convince you I had a supercharger with my times to speed before the gendarmes carted me off to the pokey. Has to be level and straight.
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Jeff Williams
- Posts: 3394
- Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:17 am
- Car: 1994 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti I30t
2004 Infiniti M45
71, 72, 73, 82 & 2000 Corvettes - Contact:
Definitely NO flat on-ramps, in Alabama. I will have to take it out to Maxwell AFB, for a run on a landing strip, I guess. There are 3 drag strips, within shouting distance of my home, as well.AZhitman wrote:Does record G forces. Lateral and linear.
My mistake - Most of our onramps are level in AZ...
I'll take your challenge. My old Q aint too fast, but I would like to see what she does, compared to y'all's (southern slang for yous guys's).
My torque converter and transmission do some wild things, at WOT. sometimes, it feels like I have a 10 speed car!
I guess I have nearly outlived my $1,900 rebuild (85,000 miles on it, and counting).
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Absolutley! I just tossed mine in because they would provide a good baseline since they are both 1995 like Greg's and very stock, and in mechanically very good shape.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45HeavyDuty wrote:Has it already been mentioned that you should do both tests on the same car? Like yours?
I know it'd be a PITA, but IMHO, that's going to be the only true data that wouldn't be contested by either camp, for lack of better term.
Discover the power of the button!
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nuQ
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:39 pm
- Car: 2003 Infiniti M45
2009 Dodge Caliber SXT - Location: Bethlehem PA
greg, good stuff!!! even if it turns out to be a very small improvement, still costs you nothing!!!! i'd be happy even if it only made her growl a little louder!!! LOL regarding the g-tech,,,,,,i'm interested in either getting a couple more of us to go in with ya, or, i'm all for "renting" in from you. i'd really like to get a baseline of my 90Q, all stock, before i do the "ramair"???, plenum, O2's, and KS's. was looking at paying the $50 for the first gen g-tech, but would much rather use the more precise comp. pro. let us know how you're leaning!!!!jeff
okay guys....I will have to say that Greg's claim of the air box mod at least for me is right on the money. I finally got my car back out of the dealer and decided I would try one of these "late night mods"....well my mod started at 11pm and ended at 3am. It took a while becuase I was unsure of how I was going to lay the piping and which OEM parts I was and was not going to keep.
Well on to the good stuff. I have a 95 car and I put a huge air scoup 4" (tall) X 11" (wide) under the front bumper behind the horizontal bumper/grill slots. I went with the biggest air scoup possible....I figure if I am going to do this...might as well put the biggest scoup I can fit on it. I used 4" piping as well to keep the air flowing freely as the OEM piping also uses the same volume of air....4" (the OEM piping from the point where I attached is 4" in circumference). It was not easy getting this massive air scoup up there between everything, but I managed to get it in there. It sits perfectly in there and is not noticeable at all which I like. I left all the OEM air piping except for the "dead end" piece that attached to the hood latch lock and the "U" shaped piece where the air enters in next to the headlight. I capped off the "dead end" pipe as I needed additional room for the piping running across the radiator. I then attached a 4" flexible aluminum piping (home depot special) to the air scoup then went under some A/C line? metal tube in front of the radiator and then inbetween the radiator and this A/C line? tube up and around to the OEM air intake port right behind the front bumper. I tied everything off so it is a sealed system from the air scoup to the OEM air intake port right behind the bumper bar. The aluminum tubing was a real pain in the butt to work with due to the small areas of clearances that I had to work with so I am going to redo it as soon as I can find a nice 4" flexible round hose that I can bend and snake around all the parts and straighten out some of the turns as the turns really decrease the rate of air flow into the air box.
Well I tried it out this morning and I did not really notice a difference until 40mph....before 40mph there is a slight change but nothing worth your time to do this mod. After 40mph you can feel something a little different..not much but we are getting there...and at 70+mph...Wow!!! I can really feel it and at 105 this morning on the freeway my pulled like it never has before. I knew it would be an improvement, but I had no idea that there would be this much. I did a couple of WOT runs from 70 to 90 and it just really pulled nicely every time. I am sure that after I redo the piping to make the air flow better that I will feel this mod a lot more.
I got the huge ram-air scoup for $40 from the link I posted earlier and it is a nice fiberglass scoup painted black with a nice curvature to capture all the air. I think the curvature of the airscoup is important to maximize the amount of air that can be captured. Also another benefit is sound or should I say lack of sound that this mod makes. At 70+mph you can hear a very faint deeper growl, but it is a very quiet "gentleman's" growl that only somebody specifically listening for it would recognize the difference as it really is not noticeable. I kind of prefer to keep things quiet while hauling a$$...at least for now.
Best of luck to you all who try this mod.....
Well on to the good stuff. I have a 95 car and I put a huge air scoup 4" (tall) X 11" (wide) under the front bumper behind the horizontal bumper/grill slots. I went with the biggest air scoup possible....I figure if I am going to do this...might as well put the biggest scoup I can fit on it. I used 4" piping as well to keep the air flowing freely as the OEM piping also uses the same volume of air....4" (the OEM piping from the point where I attached is 4" in circumference). It was not easy getting this massive air scoup up there between everything, but I managed to get it in there. It sits perfectly in there and is not noticeable at all which I like. I left all the OEM air piping except for the "dead end" piece that attached to the hood latch lock and the "U" shaped piece where the air enters in next to the headlight. I capped off the "dead end" pipe as I needed additional room for the piping running across the radiator. I then attached a 4" flexible aluminum piping (home depot special) to the air scoup then went under some A/C line? metal tube in front of the radiator and then inbetween the radiator and this A/C line? tube up and around to the OEM air intake port right behind the front bumper. I tied everything off so it is a sealed system from the air scoup to the OEM air intake port right behind the bumper bar. The aluminum tubing was a real pain in the butt to work with due to the small areas of clearances that I had to work with so I am going to redo it as soon as I can find a nice 4" flexible round hose that I can bend and snake around all the parts and straighten out some of the turns as the turns really decrease the rate of air flow into the air box.
Well I tried it out this morning and I did not really notice a difference until 40mph....before 40mph there is a slight change but nothing worth your time to do this mod. After 40mph you can feel something a little different..not much but we are getting there...and at 70+mph...Wow!!! I can really feel it and at 105 this morning on the freeway my pulled like it never has before. I knew it would be an improvement, but I had no idea that there would be this much. I did a couple of WOT runs from 70 to 90 and it just really pulled nicely every time. I am sure that after I redo the piping to make the air flow better that I will feel this mod a lot more.
I got the huge ram-air scoup for $40 from the link I posted earlier and it is a nice fiberglass scoup painted black with a nice curvature to capture all the air. I think the curvature of the airscoup is important to maximize the amount of air that can be captured. Also another benefit is sound or should I say lack of sound that this mod makes. At 70+mph you can hear a very faint deeper growl, but it is a very quiet "gentleman's" growl that only somebody specifically listening for it would recognize the difference as it really is not noticeable. I kind of prefer to keep things quiet while hauling a$$...at least for now.
Best of luck to you all who try this mod.....
BTW....can anybody tell me why the Infinit engineers would build the air box piping with two different dead ends???? There is the one dead end pipe that attached to the hood latch and then there is the 2 foot 1" diameter pipe that runs in the bumper...both of which are dead ends. I mean dead ends by saying that these pipes can't collet any new fresh air. What are they used for??? To store air?
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HeavyDuty
- Posts: 1281
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:51 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
95 Nissan 240SX S14
96 Nissan D21
06 Nissan 350Z Z33
DCB explanation:
They are designed to kill certain resonance frequencies created by the intake tract.
Otherwise known as "air silencers" or "resonators" or "airbox resonators", etc.
On a Comptech application for the Acura CL/TL-S cars, the release was set back months due to a design byproduct whistling at idle.
The solution was to design & implement a dead end appendage like you're referencing that killed the whistle.
I've also heard they do kinda store air.
I'm sure we'll be greeted soon with:
"You inept plebian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a beelzbub internal baffle similar to the tugenhadt barcelona sine wave reference as indicated in SAE section 8, paragraph 2, verses 12-37!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Furthermore, the NACA dictates any influx of unidirectional winds can cause a negative turbulent effect resulting in a downdraft forming pressure!!!!!!!!! Therefore, your incessant mastication is little but conjecture & your enthusiasm is surpassed only by your incompetence!!!!!!!!!"
Just kidding, of course, all in fun, what do I know.
DCB
They are designed to kill certain resonance frequencies created by the intake tract.
Otherwise known as "air silencers" or "resonators" or "airbox resonators", etc.
On a Comptech application for the Acura CL/TL-S cars, the release was set back months due to a design byproduct whistling at idle.
The solution was to design & implement a dead end appendage like you're referencing that killed the whistle.
I've also heard they do kinda store air.
I'm sure we'll be greeted soon with:
"You inept plebian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a beelzbub internal baffle similar to the tugenhadt barcelona sine wave reference as indicated in SAE section 8, paragraph 2, verses 12-37!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Furthermore, the NACA dictates any influx of unidirectional winds can cause a negative turbulent effect resulting in a downdraft forming pressure!!!!!!!!! Therefore, your incessant mastication is little but conjecture & your enthusiasm is surpassed only by your incompetence!!!!!!!!!"
Just kidding, of course, all in fun, what do I know.
DCB
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AZhitman
- Administrator
- Posts: 54542
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
LMAO @ HD.....
You can do away with the narrow one (that blocks airflow to the radiator) with no ill effects. Cover the opening to keep hot air from entering...
Rob, yours sounds almost identical to mine - The U-turn piece was a HUGE radiator blocker, and running the fresh air pipe right up into the airbox was a no-brainer.
I'd be curious to know where that "scoop" came from originally - For some things, I'm a cheap basturd, and that's one of them.
You can do away with the narrow one (that blocks airflow to the radiator) with no ill effects. Cover the opening to keep hot air from entering...
Rob, yours sounds almost identical to mine - The U-turn piece was a HUGE radiator blocker, and running the fresh air pipe right up into the airbox was a no-brainer.
I'd be curious to know where that "scoop" came from originally - For some things, I'm a cheap basturd, and that's one of them.
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Measure the vacuum [pressure loss created by oem] at different rpms and car speeds.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629
AZhitman wrote:
I can't get a local Q owner to run against me for anything, and I suspect most of the local Q's are so ragged out, they'd fall on their face anyway.
No BS, no pride - if you suspect you won't like the outcome, don't participate. So this should be fun - May the fastest Q win.
Hmmmm... ragged out huh? Greg, I HAVE to assume you AREN'T lumping me into the "most of the local Q's" catagory.
How about this: We get on the 101 at Haden and see if we can beat the Suzie Scottsdale driven 740's, CLK500's, and SC430's to the Raintree off ramp, ditch DPS (who will no doubt be paying attention) and meet at Earl's... winner buys lunch.
THAT's Valley of the Sun Racing!
Or, we could just have lunch and break into Firebird.
Let me know which you prefer... even at 145k, the old girl still embarasses "Shumacher Schmucks" on a regular basis on the drive home.
I love arizona.
I spent most of my teenage years street racing down scottsdale/camelback/hayden etc..
Most of the races were in my 91 Q, back in 99.. By the time I got my MKIV supra TT, I had most of the street racing out of me. That and nobody wanted to race the dawg
I'm always down for a good street race, I paved my name on these streets so many times...
Nice to see another local az owner representing..
Once my car arrives I'm down for a local meet
I spent most of my teenage years street racing down scottsdale/camelback/hayden etc..
Most of the races were in my 91 Q, back in 99.. By the time I got my MKIV supra TT, I had most of the street racing out of me. That and nobody wanted to race the dawg
I'm always down for a good street race, I paved my name on these streets so many times...
Nice to see another local az owner representing..
Once my car arrives I'm down for a local meet
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AZhitman
- Administrator
- Posts: 54542
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
LOL - Sounds good. I haven't seen your Q, but I'm positive it's clean and reppin' AZ and NICO well.
BTW, you DO have a NICO decal or two, right?
Laid a severe and embarassing arse-whuppin on a member of the family today. Some geek in a Spec-V was clownin' me on the ramp NB from Adams onto the I-17. As soon as we both entered the freeway, chumpy starts playing "hide the bumper" in Quella's ample arse, acting all antsy like he thought I was holding him back from getting somewhere.
I unloaded on him with a first-gear downshift at 45 from which he never recovered. Gave him one more crack at the title near Northern when traffic opened up, but it was a miserable performance from the little guy. My guess is his only mods were an under-hood intake, a really horrible-sounding exhaust, and WAY too much weight in audio equipment.
I gave him the "no-no" finger wag when he passed me yelling some bull**** about "old lady car". Old lady whupped your hairless arse today, Princess!
He had plenty of time to read what forum I represent, it's in big-arse lettters across my back window.
BTW, you DO have a NICO decal or two, right?
Laid a severe and embarassing arse-whuppin on a member of the family today. Some geek in a Spec-V was clownin' me on the ramp NB from Adams onto the I-17. As soon as we both entered the freeway, chumpy starts playing "hide the bumper" in Quella's ample arse, acting all antsy like he thought I was holding him back from getting somewhere.
I unloaded on him with a first-gear downshift at 45 from which he never recovered. Gave him one more crack at the title near Northern when traffic opened up, but it was a miserable performance from the little guy. My guess is his only mods were an under-hood intake, a really horrible-sounding exhaust, and WAY too much weight in audio equipment.
I gave him the "no-no" finger wag when he passed me yelling some bull**** about "old lady car". Old lady whupped your hairless arse today, Princess!
He had plenty of time to read what forum I represent, it's in big-arse lettters across my back window.