Lance Armstrong apology

[Bubba1]

Unless you live under a rock, there's a lotta hype over Lance Armstrong's "apology" interview with Oprah Winfrey over the next two evenings.
I'll be watching Barrett-Jackson, but it got me thinking.

Do you all forgive him? Do you not forgive him? Do you care?

On one hand, many others in his sport had been doping as well, but on the other hand he was vehement about being clean and passing every drug test (which turned out to be a lie), HE even successfully sued a newspaper for libel for claiming he was doping.

On one hand, his livestrong charity has done very good things for cancer research and treatment, but the money he used to start it was acquired by cheating.

On one hand, the man overcame multiple types of cancer to compete in the Tour de France. But on the other hand, there's talk that his drug use may have contributed to those cancers, plus it was speculated that he might not have won one, much less 7 TDF's without the chemical assistance. Since those wins were vacated, that's a moot point.

Personally, I think he needs to apologize to more folks than just Oprah and Livestrong employees, like the writers/newspaper he sued for libel and won money despite their telling the truth, and all those he bullied/threatened/defamed when they correctly pointed out his cheating. He also needs to payback those lawsuit/settlements he won + interest and legal fees.


Thoughts?

[frapjap]

He's definitely a GIANT DOUCHE for lying and misrepresenting himself and then getting caught. On the lighter side, you can't deny that his foundation has changed a large number of folks' lives for the better.
The whole thing reminds me of the Southpark episode where Cartman idolizes Bill Belichick for cheating and then travels to lesser fortunate schools under a hispanic teacher guise to teach them to cheat on standardized tests without getting caught. All along he's using the tag line "How do I reach deees keeeeds?"

[Ace2cool]

Agree with you on all accounts. Keep the titles stripped from him, make him payback the settlements, and the legal fees of those representing the defense.

[Jesda]

He's done more good than bad and no one really cares about cycling anyway.

Honestly though, the human body can't do this stuff without chemical enhancements. No one should be surprised.

[Razi]

Ton of cyclists dope.
People are probably freaking out over Lance because he's the only name they recognize.


These are just the ones that have been caught.
Wouldn't be surprised if all of them did something extra.

[Dattebayo]

I dunno, but plenty of people work for employers that would fire them in a heartbeat if they knew they smoked pot, but I don't hear them eagerly telling their bosses about it... Many even take measures to ensure they would come clean if asked do to a random sample, too.

Yeah, his drugs gave him an unfair edge... but I haven't really heard of any cancer patients who were doing what he did either. That's the problem with drugs, they're a giant fricken paradox with different attitudes about them all over the world.

[flohtingPoint]

People always cheat, I've long since lost the innocence of believing anyone is a "golden boy". While I don't like his holier than thou approach to it, I'm not surprised, nor do I think less of him. You dig enough in someone's closet, you will find skeletons.

[alms24sebring]

I dont really care about it. Its probly better to remember him for the good that he accomplished. Does anyone feel the same way about Mark McGuire, Bonds, or Sosa, etc? I mean watching them compete in the homerun race was amazing to watch as a kid. So no matter what, to me accomplishments cant be denied and thrown out of the record books.

[Bubba1]

I dont really care about it. Its probly better to remember him for the good that he accomplished. Does anyone feel the same way about Mark McGuire, Bonds, or Sosa, etc? I mean watching them compete in the homerun race was amazing to watch as a kid. So no matter what, to me accomplishments cant be denied and thrown out of the record books.

That's an interesting comparison, but I think Armstrong's deeds were much much worse than the 3 baseball players. With the baseball guys, they did not technically break any rules, but ethically speaking,one could argue they cheated. So keeping them out of the hall of fame seems an appropriate punishment. But Armstrong not only used officially banned substances, he went a big step more by attacking/suing/ruining anyone who tried to expose his cheating. He actually ruined people's reputations/careers to maintain his lies. that's really bad. It seems difficult to revere him for his good deeds when they are offset by the awful deeds he did.

[szh]

watching them compete in the homerun race was amazing to watch as a kid.

"As a kid"? Yikes, I am getting really old - I wasn't a kid then.

Z

[MinisterofDOOM]

There was a pretty good article in Bicycling magazine a while back about how it doesn't really matter whether he doped or not. He did great things for a lot of people, and achieved a lot even considering the doping.

People always cheat, I've long since lost the innocence of believing anyone is a "golden boy". While I don't like his holier than thou approach to it, I'm not surprised, nor do I think less of him. You dig enough in someone's closet, you will find skeletons.

Well said.

I tend to agree with Bubba that attacking others to falsely defend yourself is incredibly bad. But at the same time, I entirely agree with flohtingPoint.

[Ace2cool]

Right. He did do great things. But he also SUED people for saying he doped, WON lawsuits, made other people PAY him money, and now comes clean and says he actually did it. That's scumbag status for life. f*** him.

[nissangirl74]

My problem with him is that he's not sorry. He's not sorry for the people's lives he ruined. He's not sorry for ruining the hopes of a pediatric cancer patient who has a picture of him up on his/her wall as a symbol of inspiration. He's not sorry that he did what he did. He's sorry he got caught. It took the experts a long time to prove it and he destroyed a lot of good people in the process. I don't give two s*** about him but there were a lot of people out there that did. f*** him for the bad things he did. f*** him for the hope he destroyed. f*** him for the damage this will do to Livestrong (and it will). I hope he dies miserable, alone, and broke.

[Jesda]

Well, the biggest negative for me are the legions of spandex-wearing dorks who whiz past me on the trail thinking they're Lance. They have little regard for pedestrians, pets, or other people using the trail. When they aren't on the trail, they're blocking the traffic at rush hour.

I call them monoballers. I've enjoyed cycling long before these trendy dorks watched ESPN.

[davidoliva]

Im an avid gym goer, and when news of this broke out i foolishly thought I wouldn't be seeing grown men in their lance Armstrong costume anymore, which consists of: livestrong spandex shorts and shirt complete with livestrong headbands and in some cases tattoos (not joking) Boy was I wrong when I saw one of those dorks today struggling while benching 135 lbs

These people, along with the guys who wear cpt America tshirts during their workouts, are the ones who should be shamed, not lance who only used steroids to do good things. Ends justify the means IMO.

[Bubba1]

These people, along with the guys who wear cpt America tshirts during their workouts, are the ones who should be shamed, not lance who only used steroids to do good things. Ends justify the means IMO.

So you're willing to overlook the careers/fortunes Lance ruined because he did some charitable work?

[flohtingPoint]

These people, along with the guys who wear cpt America tshirts during their workouts, are the ones who should be shamed, not lance who only used steroids to do good things. Ends justify the means IMO.

So you're willing to overlook the careers/fortunes Lance ruined because he did some charitable work?

Worked for Bill Gates =P

[MinisterofDOOM]

My problem with him is that he's not sorry. He's not sorry for the people's lives he ruined. He's not sorry for ruining the hopes of a pediatric cancer patient who has a picture of him up on his/her wall as a symbol of inspiration. He's not sorry that he did what he did. He's sorry he got caught. It took the experts a long time to prove it and he destroyed a lot of good people in the process. I don't give two s*** about him but there were a lot of people out there that did. f*** him for the bad things he did. f*** him for the hope he destroyed. f*** him for the damage this will do to Livestrong (and it will). I hope he dies miserable, alone, and broke.

Hard to argue with logic like that.

[davidoliva]

Worked for Bill Gates =P

As an apple fan i will always remember gates for the +$150 Mil cash injection into Apple with Steve Jobs' strong backing in the late 90s, giving Apple enough breathing room to eventually develop the iPhone and change the way we see mobile phones forever. So yeah, worked for Bill gates too. :p

[RicerX]

I have a stance on doping, and then I have a stance on Armstrong's approach.

My stance on doping - those of us in this room can barely fathom the physical stress it takes to compete at elite levels in any form of athletics. I was training exceptionally hard for a BJJ competition last year and was in the gym every single day rolling and getting beat up. I only went hard for probably 2 hours a day (and I ended up breaking my foot the week before the competition and never competed). That's at 2 hours a day in technique only (not including the two hours daily of conditioning with plyometric workouts, weight training, and cardio). I never took anything, but I damn well wanted to. There wasn't a day I wasn't sore or hurt in some way. These guys that do this for a living train day in, day out, full time. Most of us sit at a desk full time. Last year, I was easily in the best shape of my life, but I was completely beat up, and I'm still recovering from a lot of the injuries I sustained while training last year. To compete at a high level, you almost need to overtrain in order to succeed. It has to become your life.

You train and exercise to get stronger - you dope to recover faster to facilitate the intense training schedules you have. Sorry, but considering my own mental state of being after the rigors of training for that, I completely understand why people do it.

On to Lance...

The whole thing was wrong. The lawsuits, etc. I know he's not sorry for doping, etc. I completely understand why. The thing that sucks is that his punishment won't be what he truly deserves - as long as he is alive, he will have the memories of crossing the finish line first, the celebrations, the money, the fame, the fortune, and everything that came with the glory of winning no matter the cost and after all of the training he did. He will always have that reward - the reward of success no matter the cost. None of us can ever take that away from him no matter how many trophies we take or shameful interviews we put him through.

Take solace in the fact that he will get what he deserves one day. Hope that he will have to look a kid dying of cancer in the face knowing that there were bigger things that he was meant to stand for than his cycling trophies and Nike endorsements. He doesn't regret any of his actions because he was never thinking about any of this, and he never truly cared about any of this. When the day comes that he fully realizes the depth of his wrongdoing, he will be irrelevant and alone at a time in his life when the athleticism he covets so much has long left him.

We have all done things in pursuit of a dream that we're not necessarily proud of. The difference is that we must always do our dead-level best to be accountable for what we do, and we should always take into account those who are affected by our actions. If you're caught doing something much less than ideal, suck it up and deal with it. Lance did not do this - he was fixated on his goals and dreams and nothing else. Along the way, he missed the people that hitched a ride along with him such as all the cancer patients. Maybe he though the Livestrong foundation was a way to square all that up - we may never know. The truth will always eventually come out, and if you build the your house on a foundation of mistruths, then it will eventually fail you and the whole thing will come down. He will live in this for the rest of his life, I assure you.

[Jesda]

So you're willing to overlook the careers/fortunes Lance ruined because he did some charitable work?

The fortunes he created owe some of their credit to his doping. Tough call.

[Bubba1]

So you're willing to overlook the careers/fortunes Lance ruined because he did some charitable work?

The fortunes he created owe some of their credit to his doping. Tough call.

I guess it depends on your perspective. If you were one of the people he screwed in order to acquire his personal fortune, you'd have a less favorable view than someone that derived a benefit from his charity.

[Dattebayo]

Why don't we ask Cheryl Crow about it all?

[Bubba1]

Why don't we ask Cheryl Crow about it all?

Already happened. She didn't say much.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... -1.1244748

[Dattebayo]

Yeah, but she's not really saying it all, is she? There has to be more than that. This is what I meant.

[Bubba1]

Yeah, but she's not really saying it all, is she? There has to be more than that. This is what I meant.

I agree. Given their relationship, it seems probable she knew that he was cheating back then. But at this point, I'll bet she's trying her best to avoid getting implicated.

[WDRacing]

Lance Armstrong should be tied to a post and wailed on with a wiffle ball bat for 7 days.

[float_6969]

He's done more good than bad and no one really cares about cycling anyway.

Honestly though, the human body can't do this stuff without chemical enhancements. No one should be surprised.

this is my sentiment exactly.