Labor prices for alignments are blowing my mind…

[98_Q45]

And when I say alignments, I’m talking about the necessary work to get it right as well. I haven’t had an alignment since December 2022. Fortunately my tires are relatively new and aren’t wearing excessively, but I’m trying to avoid having that happen to begin with…especially since I do highway driving almost every time I leave my neighborhood. But my rear wheels have eaten good tires in short order.

I know everyone has sticker shock right now, and I understand mechanic work is a pain and guy’s have to earn a living. But, I set aside $500 and buy my own parts, thinking that’ll get my alignment straight. 6 months later, I’ve had places A) tell me the wrong information about what’s needed, and B) want way more than I expected.

Most recently, I had to drop $299 just Labor on ball joints on the front (which I purchased myself, but this is also the 3rd time I’m doing front control arm s***. Hoping these extended life ball joints never need to come out again).

I went to a local shop last week, with like $400 and a handful of parts to replace. Nothing out of this world, but I feel shops bill everything by the book: it’s going to take 1.5 hour for this, 2 hours for that, 4 hours all together and you’re looking at: $679.99. This is just to put on 2 control arms on the back, and press in/out some bushings, slip a tie Rod boot on, and do an alignment.

And I’m thinking I’m spending a lot, I call other places and they want $160-$180 for 4 wheel alignment like Infiniti does. And I get it: I work for myself. I know the actual value of doing work: But many times, I risk losing money or breaking even. So I have to be conscientious about how much I’m spending on car repairs. This whole year I feel, I’ve been left “broke” after going to shop getting stuff done. Does it have to be like that?

And I understand DIY, and I do it as much as physically possible: but I’m not a mechanic. I have an array of tools, but I don’t have a lift. I also don’t have the privacy in my garage space to do whole overhauls and stuff. Most stuff I work on myself, is top engine stuff, fluids, etc. Basically like an upgraded jiffy lube lol. However, I have struggled with undercarriage bolts before, and sometimes it just goes beyond the capabilities of what a DIY person can do.

Thus, I still have use for repair shops. But it’s hurting me that I can’t maintain my vehicles as much in the past couple years, because many places: even independent owned places: have increased prices. $129 to recharge a/c? Come on. I’m also starting to come to a realization: I need to start doing places less that have “employees” and stick to those who own their shops, as I feel their rates tend to be the actual hour rate, not PLUS the owner’s/receptionist pay, etc.

Only caveat with those very independent shops: their workload is often heavy, and they don’t always have the time to dedicate to rebuilding one vehicle. I’ve pretty much gotten to where now: I take my cars between 2-3 mechanics just so I’m not burdening one person. I know they usually say stick to one shop, but I usually have one place finish a certain project, and then rotate to another. I don’t necessarily find I get any steeper discounts by sticking to one shop faithfully.

[fontana dan]

I need to visit an alignment shop as well. Its been 18 months since i had the last one with lots of miles and abuse since then.
I found my rear tires wear on the inside because the rear springs sag slightly, causing a bit of negative camber. Not sure what to do about this besides fix the ride height.
Front tires having a bit of wear on the outside. The front end really likes to follow the crown of the road, it can take a lot of correction if the road is changing camber. I believe theres a TSB on this?

[VStar650CL]

The only bulletin I found for a '97 is about changing tension rods if the car pulls right, which isn't your situation. Negative camber will make that axle tend to stay straight, positive will make it tend to wander. Toe is similar, toe-in will make it tend to stay straight, toe-out will make it tend to wander. The fronts wearing on the outside but not feathering implies that your weak rear springs are letting the front end lift at speed, causing your front camber to go positive. That's making the front axle squirrely while the rear axle wants to tramline. Getting the rear springs resolved should fix all of that.

[Ryantzer]

this is also the 3rd time I’m doing front control arm s***

It doesn't sound like you're using quality parts. The cheap aftermarket parts available today have miserable build quality and longevity - you really need to get OEM parts if you want anything to last more than a few years.

[98_Q45]

this is also the 3rd time I’m doing front control arm s***

It doesn't sound like you're using quality parts. The cheap aftermarket parts available today have miserable build quality and longevity - you really need to get OEM parts if you want anything to last more than a few years.

Well, in my case: I brought the vehicle with bad control arm bushings unknowingly (the same control arms that are only $100 that look like the 300SX, but further looking shows the $700 Infiniti ones are slightly longer so it won’t fit).

Mechanic at the time saved me by using $150/each used ones from idk where. They lasted a couple years, but then one day I went for an alignment and was told I needed driver side ball joint and they couldn’t do a proper alignment. So I got 1 fixed, that I ordered from Moog. 3 years later, BOTH ball joints were loose, and I could hear the knocking since this past January.

I believe being towed last year, caused this to happen. I can bet they jacked up the rear, and towed it with the front facing backwards (long story but, stupid booty call b**** failed to tell me I could be towed if I didn’t have a parking permit. I was raising pure hell lol).

Anyhow, so I have the new ball joint in. But the tension rods, I previously replaced that with just bushings only (stupid idea, I know). Within a year they were cracking. So earlier this year, I actually brought the whole arm online for only $60. $80 Labor to put it on. Unfortunately I can’t afford OEM which is the only other option. That would have been I think: $300 each.

But it’s slowly but surely getting done. I feel I’m dealing with similar as I did with my Nissan maxima; repair after repair: then finally it was perfect. But I never had to change out multiple suspension parts, or get charged $120 just to take 1 f*** suspension arm off.

Few years ago: Infiniti looked at my suspension and quoted me $3,000. Knowing I had a pending paint job for the same amount, I decided to just start piecing the parts together over time. I got the drivers side straight, but now the passenger rear side is damn near sideways lol.

Idk if suspension springs will fix the negative camber. I think it’s more related to bushings. I put on new shocks on the rear and noticed a big increase in height, but my camber was still negative due to bad link bushings.

Hopefully I can get this s*** done within the next couple weeks. My urgent paint job has been held up due to this. But so far all the clear coat on the roof has flaked away, so maybe I’ll save on sanding Labor.

That said: I have another car that’s a Cadillac of 1 year newer, and I still like the Q more lol. GM stuff is so flimsy, everything from the cup holder to the seats: after driving the Cadillac for a week or 2, I’m ready to get back into the Infiniti. It really feels like driving a Benz or Jaguar.

Unfortunately I can’t rely on either vehicle solely due to their age. But I feel the Infiniti does better overall on longevity. The Cadillac is not at 200,000, and has cost me a sick amount of money, but is not as hard to find parts for as the Infiniti.

[Ryantzer]

I just had my '90 Q45 at the alignment shop today and have a few things to do to it in order to get the alignment back within specs, some of which are related to your issues.

Background: 111K miles on the car, I've owned it for nearly 4 years, have been driving it for 2-1/2 years and have put 9K miles on it. Struts were completely worn out when I got it, both strut rod bushings were cracked, and the steering rack boots were torn - everything else in the steering and suspension was in decent shape. I replaced the worn struts with a set of D2 coilovers and set the car somewhat lower than stock but not so low that it's undriveable over normal roads and speedbumps - this increased the negative camber all around. I also replaced the strut rod bushings with what I was able to locate at the time: one Moog and one Nissan bushing. The car came with brand new stock size tires in the trunk when I bought it, so I'm running those currently on the stock wheels - I have a set of 18" G35 wheels that I'm planning on fitting with some 245-40/18 tires once I've got the suspension completely dialed in.

Prior to taking it in for the alignment I added washers between the front upper control arm mounts and the body to decrease the negative front camber, installed adjustable upper control arms (P2M P2-RUCANS13-HC) in the rear, and replaced the steering rack boots.

On initial inspection the alignment tech noted that one of the new strut rod bushings that I had installed 9 months and 2000 miles ago was splitting (yes, they were torqued with the car's weight on the suspension) - gonna go with either a garbage Moog part or just a part that had been on a shelf for a couple decades to explain that.

The tech was able to get the rear suspension camber adjusted, but doing so pulled the rear toe out of spec so he adjusted it as much as possible (-1.6 degrees on both sides which is at the limit of the factory camber spec) while keeping the toe within specs. In the front the only adjustment available was toe, so that was adjusted to 0, right in the middle of the specs. Front camber was slightly out of spec (max of -1.7 degrees) at -1.8 and -2.0, and caster was also on the ragged edge of the specs (max of 7.7 degrees) at 7.5 & 7.8. I was concerned about not having enough caster due to the washers under the upper control arm mounts pushing the control arms forward as well as outward, but they can go forward even more if necessary - personally I like having as much caster as possible since it increases self-centering in the steering and provides additional camber when cornering.

Plans at this point are to install a camber bolt kit for the front lower control arm inner bushing (SPC Performance 89115), install adjustable front strut rods (SPC Performance 66720), and install adjustable rear toe links (SPC Performance 66740) - that will correct the splitting strut rod bushing issue and should provide all the adjustment necessary to dial in about 1 degree of camber all around (to prevent uneven wear on the wider tires) and still adjust everything else to factory spec.

Everything that I'm installing is compatible with the Z32 300ZX, S13 240SX, or R32 Skyline, sometimes all three. I'm relying mostly on cross-referencing the applications for the Nissan part numbers to determine what should fit - they've all got essentially the same suspension design, they just differ in some of the details. Hopefully some of my experiences can be useful to you.

[98_Q45]

Well that’s good to know you’re coming along also. Regarding: “one of the new strut rod bushings that I had installed 9 months and 2000 miles ago was splitting”, I think if you can: down the line, try to find the whole tension Rod arm. (I’m only familiar with ones for 97-01)

There are some aftermarket’s that have them pressed in already. Idk the quality of them but, that’s what I did. I’m hoping it holds up longer than the previous ones. But idk if even the cracking really renders the part useless: you can probably still get another couple years out of them. Mine were “good” but were cracked, it was the ball joints causing the clunking noises in my case. However I should have not cheaped out changing just bushings, I got two new painted grey arms aftermarket with bushings on for $60 online (it wasn’t a scam lol)

That said, I do have some good news: One of my local small shops said they would fix up my rear end for $160, though I can plan $200. However, sometimes I just feel it’s fair to stick to one mechanic when it comes down to specific projects. However, even the “independent” shops, if they have employees to payroll and are charging tax, etc. that labor and associated costs is passed onto me. That’s the part that kinda sucks. I can deal with $200. But $289.95+tax is the problem lol. Because I can almost be paying $$$ more than what the actual man is getting paid.

So, the other place quoting $160 is like ACTUAL Independent shop. Just 2 guys working. However, he did tell me they can’t do my alignment since they only have old school machine, but that means I can take it back to the other place with the computerized alignment.

Matter of fact, the other mechanic suggested I replace the rear links myself…and bring it back for alignment to save money lol. But I told him, I don’t f*** with suspension parts. I’ll take it somewhere cheaper, before I try it myself. Don’t have the leverage and not trying to break tools to get them off.

Ugh, just talking about this is doing my head in lol. I am very close to a few months of no car maintenance except car wash and oil changes. Money has been hard to save, but I have no choice living 60 miles from the office couple times a week, and occasionally having to drive 300 miles to the next city lol. All of which requires alignment and engine to work.

[fontana dan]

The only bulletin I found for a '97 is about changing tension rods if the car pulls right, which isn't your situation. Negative camber will make that axle tend to stay straight, positive will make it tend to wander. Toe is similar, toe-in will make it tend to stay straight, toe-out will make it tend to wander. The fronts wearing on the outside but not feathering implies that your weak rear springs are letting the front end lift at speed, causing your front camber to go positive. That's making the front axle squirrely while the rear axle wants to tramline. Getting the rear springs resolved should fix all of that.

Interesting...thanks for the insight VStar. Looks like I might have to look at some springs on Amayama. As long as I can rule out something else isn't making the rear end sag. Plus the front looks like it sits too high. I think I'll have to measure and look for some specs on the ride height in FSM.

[VStar650CL]

You're most welcome, happy to help. It's actually the same situation as the steering getting "twitchy" on a vehicle towing a trailer that's too heavy for the rear. People think it's because the front end is riding light, and to a small extent that's true because the front tires have slightly less tread on the road, but primarily the twitchiness is from the wheels cambering positive as the front end lifts. Racers actually use those tricks to make the front and rear of the car behave differently when the track calls for it. For instance, on a dirt track where most of the race will be spent sideways, cambering the front negative for heavier steering response but better control, while toeing the rear out to break loose easier. It's pretty simple to cause marked changes in handling with relatively easy tweaks.

[fontana dan]

I found some specifications for the wheelarch height in Front Axle section of the FSM. Measured mine and found the rear end sits about 1/2" low unladen. That's not too bad, but if you put just a couple of suitcases in there it looks quite loaded down. I'm surprised to find that the front end is about 1/8" below spec, because it looks high to me.
I guess Nissan intended for these Y33s be able to go over curbs, or through a ditch without harm? I will say that it is rare to scrape any part of the car on anything. However that didn't stop the previous owner of my car from breaking the lower part of the front splitter, and ripping out both inner fenders plus the center splash shield!! I wonder how that happened.
I hope I'm not hijacking your thread, 98_Q45...

[98_Q45]

I found some specifications for the wheelarch height in Front Axle section of the FSM. Measured mine and found the rear end sits about 1/2" low unladen. That's not too bad, but if you put just a couple of suitcases in there it looks quite loaded down. I'm surprised to find that the front end is about 1/8" below spec, because it looks high to me.
I guess Nissan intended for these Y33s be able to go over curbs, or through a ditch without harm? I will say that it is rare to scrape any part of the car on anything. However that didn't stop the previous owner of my car from breaking the lower part of the front splitter, and ripping out both inner fenders plus the center splash shield!! I wonder how that happened.
I hope I'm not hijacking your thread, 98_Q45...

No hijacking mistaken lol.

That’s actually good food for thought. I haven’t measured my height but: I did notice increase in height with new rear shocks. That’s without new springs. But I do notice the camber gets way out of line with any kind of weight in the trunk or back seat. Hence why I’m in hurry to replace the worn control arms. However, I’m skeptical I might be defaulted to a slightly rear camber on the alignment machine due to suspension slack.

That said: I drove a friend’s 2019 something Cadillac CTS on the highway the other day. Idk what it is but, the overly responsive steering feels like s***. It treks straight but, the slightest bit of steering movement seems to veer the front off course. Didn’t feel safe or stable at all, despite being able to reach 100 with just a tap of the pedal.

With a good alignment, the Q feels very heavy and stable. Some of these newer cars have 0 play in the steering, which is not always great