kyb agx's with ground controls....help

[g_dripht-alex]

i just got kyb agx's with ground control's and in the ground controls directions it says that you have to cut off the perch on the front shocks, can someone help me out here, this doesnt seem to make much sense to me cause then where would the spring rest? if anyone has this set-up and did it themselves any imput would be appreciated. thanks.

[offtheline]

I was looking into this setup before and decided against it for certain reasons, but when I called ground control, they basically said that you need to cut off the perch and then weld their collar onto the body of the shock. If you call them, they will be more than happy to give you detailed instructions. I would trust those more than someone over the internet.

[Auto-X 240]

Their instructions are wrong. I pointed this out to them when I got mine. Their response was that they didn't believe me and that I must be reading it wrong, hehe. What the instructions should say is that you should cut off most of the spring perch leaving enough to have a shoulder for the collar to rest on.

[91nis240]

yeh dont cut all of it off, just cut it down til its about the size of the rear shocks springs seat

[ITA240SX]

Their instructions are wrong. I pointed this out to them when I got mine. Their response was that they didn't believe me and that I must be reading it wrong, hehe. What the instructions should say is that you should cut off most of the spring perch leaving enough to have a shoulder for the collar to rest on.

Yeah, I agree, those guys don't have a clue what they're talking about :rolleyes Just because they manufacture suspension systems for some of the fastest cars in SCCA Club Racing, SWC Touring, and a number of other series they think they know something about suspension. What a bunch of idiots.

And hell, just because cutting off part of the old spring perch a) probably places the adjusting collar in the wrong height on the strut to acheive optimum adjustablity; and b) is probably weaker, since the stock perch (at least on the oem strut) is not a solid piece where it attaches to the strut; and c) probably will damage the collar since the remaining part of the perch is not a flat surface on top, there is no good reason no to go ahead and do it that way.

I, the idiot that I am, did what those dummies at GC said, and cut off the original perch, ground off the original welds, and had the new perch GC supplied me with welded on in the proper location. A hell of a lot of extra work, not to mention the $20 for the welding, and all for what?

Have funEarl

[Auto-X 240]

Hey Earl, I can only tell you what I know about them. They told me to not cut the entire perch off. GC parts are run on a lot of fast cars, I know. However, GC is hit and miss on their customer service. Half of the time when you call them with a questiion you'll get a different answer depending on who is on the phone. I cut my perch completely off and welded on the new perch as you did. When I called them to ask them about a different length spring they told me I had installed things wrong and should not have removed the perch. All I can say is they are incredibly inconsistent with their instructions and technical advice.

[ITA240SX]

Allen - I apologize, it looks like I misread you first post. It sounded to me like you were the one saying to only cut off part of the perch. If someone at GC told you this, then yes, they were dead wrong and should be called on it. I will have to agree also, that while their products are first-rate, their phone support varies from outstanding to "why in the hell are you bothering me with this dumb question", depending on who you talk to. We probably should take names and start a list of guys to ask for when calling. The other thing I did notice is that their written directions were pretty weak. I just figured the general attitude is "if you're building a race car you should already know all this stuff".

Earl

[offtheline]

When I called to ask them about mating the GC with kyb agx shocks for a 95-98 240sx the guy told me that the agx wasnt made for that year of 240sx and that I must be using the parts from an earlier year. I kindly told him that I have them sitting in my room and that they are indeed the right part numbers and that they do indeed make them for my year of car. He told me again that I was incorrect and I finally asked him (knowing that I was correct) "hypothetically how would i mate the two if they DID make these shocks for my year of car".... not knocking GC because ive heard great things about them, but I wasnt impressed with their tech guys to say the least.

[g_dripht-alex]

ummm so im confused...do i cut off the whole perch? and then get the little piece welded on? or...do i cut off some of it?

[Auto-X 240]

I would cut off the whole perch and weld the new bracket on because leaving any of the perch on might not allow the new bracket to sit flat. Make sure whoever welds it on for you knows what they are doing. All of the force of that spring is being held by that bracket.

[ITA240SX]

Agree 100%. In addition to what Auto-X 240 pointed out, and equally as important in my opinion, this will allow you to position the collar to get the most adjustment out of the system. IIRC, the GC collar only allows for about 1.5"-2" of height adjustment, so you want to optimize what adjustment you do have. I set mine so that the ride height was about .5" lower than stock at max. upward adjustment, which will still alow me to get close to the 5" minimum legal ride height for the class I'll be running in.

Earl

[Dori Dori]

I didn't have to weld anything on mine!

On the front struts of a KYB AGX, the spring perch is welded on. Cut it off, but don't cut it flush with the strut...there should be a small amount of perch left (actually, just the old welds) so the new ground control perch rests on it. Also, IIRC, there is a hex pattern around the strut houing that needs to be smoothed out to a circle so the new perch fits over it. They should have also supplied 0-rings that keep the perch from moving around too much also. That's it...no welding on my instructions or when I did it.

On the rear, the KYB perch just pops off with a hammer and the new one just slides on IIRC.

[ITA240SX]

Actually, I have to qualify my answer - I'm using the Koni inserts, which may very well be different from the KYBs.

[Jookmasta]

is it really worth all this trouble for these GCs or would springs or some full coilover system be a better bet

[ITA240SX]

Good question. I think the biggest advantge for most guys is the cost. The GC kit with AGXs runs around $850 I believe, versus how much for the Tein or similar coilovers? In my case (and I suspect Auto-X 240's too) it's more to do with rules. The SCCA doesn't allow full-blown coilovers in the class I'm building my car for, so this is the only legal setup I can run. And really, it's not all that much trouble if you're reasonably mechanically inclined.

Earl

[Dori Dori]

I did mine b/c coilover struts are valved too aggressively for everyday driving (to me). I've had 'full blown' threaded shock body coilovers in the past and it's just too harsh (again, for me and my South Florida roads). I really didn't save much money ($520 struts, $400 GC, $160 PBM's), but I'm really happy with them!

The install for me was simple. I went to a 'friends' shop, got the struts modified (again, just the fronts), and then I put it all together and bolted it to the car.

[Jookmasta]

thanks for the input. ive heard mixed reviews of the coilovers but i see that since your doing the professional thing, i can see where it would be the best setup without violating the rules. as for the price thing, i have a follow up for that. your right when you say that the GCs matched with some good shox will save money (i think you said 850) but ive been doin my homework and options auto salon does have the tein basic coilover system for 840 or 870. the dampening isnt adjustable but it is a rebuildable system. since there isnt a price difference, would you have went with the teins or would you have stuck with the GCs?

[Dori Dori]

I'd go GC...and I did!:)

If you are thinking about those Teins, spend the extra $100 and get the HA's.

[Auto-X 240]

the konis are great shocks, and I saved a couple hundred bucks going with them and the GCs over a set of lower end (tein) coilovers that i was not as confident in. However, in the future I will switch to either JIC or more likely Cusco Zero 2R. Shock control is everything in autocross and I can't adjust the rear konis without taking them off the car and disassembling the coilover. That's takes way too long.

[Jookmasta]

then another question arises in my head. it is kinda off topic but still on topic. since yall are using the GCs, whats the offset on your rims and did you have to use spacers or did everything work out well. i ask this b/c i have the spec v rims on my car with a whopping 47mm offset so i am kinda wary about the coilover thing or would springs b the safest way? also what spring rate did yall choose with ur GCs and how is the feel?

[Auto-X 240]

What width are the spec-v wheels?

[Jookmasta]

17x7 with 215/45/17

[Auto-X 240]

with those wheels the GC's will not fit. You need less offset to clear coilovers

[Jookmasta]

im thinkin of using spacers to clear the coilovers? any idea how big of a spacer i would need? would this solve my problem or is there other solutions?

[turboweege]

i used 205/55/16s and had to get 1/4"spacers from jegs. now i have like an 1/8" clearance.

[Jookmasta]

how much were the spacers from jegs?