http://video.google.com/videop...240sx
-Dan
Kinda cool: vid of S14 auto-x analysis
Re: (IWannaS15)
wait till you try HPDEIWannaS15 wrote:I think I'm officially hooked on autoX.
racetrack > cones in a parking lot
Dan,
Thanks so much for posting the links to my videos. I haven't yet engaged the racing/drifting community in a dialogue, as you mentioned, but I'm very eager to hear feedback on my work and ways to improve it.
I'm very, very obsessed with drifting and autocross and find it fascinating from every aspect. Since my PhD work is in vehicle dynamics, the racing analysis is a simple extension. If you look at some of my other videos, you'll see that this one follows a much different philosophy. I tried to cut down on the gimmicky transitions and produce useful content that is both entertaining and slightly technical.
Kamin,
I *really* want to get into HPDE or solo trials. I'm missing an event this weekend in favor of drift testing, but hopefully I'll try it soon. I'm pushing up against a deadline for presenting my first drift paper - at the SAE World Congress in April. On that note, several people have noted the lack of any real content on my website. Of course, that's because I'm concentrating on the papers/journals. I'll have the paper posted after the conference, which takes place early April.
Dan, thanks again for the links.
Thanks so much for posting the links to my videos. I haven't yet engaged the racing/drifting community in a dialogue, as you mentioned, but I'm very eager to hear feedback on my work and ways to improve it.
I'm very, very obsessed with drifting and autocross and find it fascinating from every aspect. Since my PhD work is in vehicle dynamics, the racing analysis is a simple extension. If you look at some of my other videos, you'll see that this one follows a much different philosophy. I tried to cut down on the gimmicky transitions and produce useful content that is both entertaining and slightly technical.
Kamin,
I *really* want to get into HPDE or solo trials. I'm missing an event this weekend in favor of drift testing, but hopefully I'll try it soon. I'm pushing up against a deadline for presenting my first drift paper - at the SAE World Congress in April. On that note, several people have noted the lack of any real content on my website. Of course, that's because I'm concentrating on the papers/journals. I'll have the paper posted after the conference, which takes place early April.
Dan, thanks again for the links.
Re: (Kamin)
Iono....Kamin wrote:wait till you try HPDE
racetrack > cones in a parking lot
autox is TURN TURN OMG TURN TURN
race track is TURN... straight-a-way... TURN... cruise... TURN TURN... waitttttt... turn...
hehehehe.
It's all personal preference really... gotta do a lil of everything to make yourself well rounded.
Part of what makes autocross so engaging is the frequency of the control inputs. One author claims it is as fast as F1 (maybe even rally), as it requires very precise inputs at a rapid pace. It's also nice that autox's are relatively cheap and have low barriers to entry.
Jordan,I made the same mistake and stated on one page that you should always be on the throttle or brake. In reality, that's not the case as many people pointed out. Apparently you're supposed to "maintain the highest level of acceleration in the appropriate direction" (Milliken's book). Meaning that you are switching between maximum lateral (low or no throttle) to maximum acceleration (max throttle) to combined accelerations (some turning, some throttle).
In practice, I find that this is one of the hardest things about racing. It's relatively easy to run a fast skidpad or to brake hard, but combining turning and braking/driving on a complex course - at the limit - is very difficult. Personally, I usually give too much throttle and end up destroying a row of cones in the ensuing spin.
Also, I'll try to remember to post in the forums as soon as I've uploaded the paper. It will be accompanied by a drift video from this weekend's testing, which went *fantastically* well.
Jordan,I made the same mistake and stated on one page that you should always be on the throttle or brake. In reality, that's not the case as many people pointed out. Apparently you're supposed to "maintain the highest level of acceleration in the appropriate direction" (Milliken's book). Meaning that you are switching between maximum lateral (low or no throttle) to maximum acceleration (max throttle) to combined accelerations (some turning, some throttle).
In practice, I find that this is one of the hardest things about racing. It's relatively easy to run a fast skidpad or to brake hard, but combining turning and braking/driving on a complex course - at the limit - is very difficult. Personally, I usually give too much throttle and end up destroying a row of cones in the ensuing spin.
Also, I'll try to remember to post in the forums as soon as I've uploaded the paper. It will be accompanied by a drift video from this weekend's testing, which went *fantastically* well.
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InsanityInc
- Posts: 2521
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:43 am
- Contact:
Through most track slaloms you'll keep a constant and low throttle input (like maybe 10-25%), just enough to keep your speed constant. When you're at the maximum speed your car can do on the slalom, there isn't any point to trying to accelerate more.
Road racing is far more about precise control during turns than autocross, which is all about doing things quickly. I much prefer road racing for a variety of reasons. Probably helps that I have 2 large tracks within 1.5 hours of me, though.
Road racing is far more about precise control during turns than autocross, which is all about doing things quickly. I much prefer road racing for a variety of reasons. Probably helps that I have 2 large tracks within 1.5 hours of me, though.
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sr20goofus
- Posts: 376
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:24 pm
- Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: (240sx2nr95)
the only reason i road race and not auto-x is because of the amount of seat time, a weekend track event like an HPDE yeilds roughly 3 hrs track time andabout 1-2hrs of classroom time all including instructor input with your exact driving ability. Auto-X, is more of a learn at your own pace type thing, with runs only lasting a few short minutes.
The hih speeds and exact preicision required to keep momentum up through each turn so that the exit is as fast as possible and still on teh track is a huge rush when you get it right.
The hih speeds and exact preicision required to keep momentum up through each turn so that the exit is as fast as possible and still on teh track is a huge rush when you get it right.
Joojoo:
Your site and most recent vidoe look amazing. I can't wait to read your paper. You are studying exactly what I am interested in and was wondering if there is a section of your website where you describe the gear you're using to take the readings. I think there are a lot of people on this site that would be interested in that info. Thanks for broadening the discussion and really bringing some hard science to nico. Good luck in Detroit.
Your site and most recent vidoe look amazing. I can't wait to read your paper. You are studying exactly what I am interested in and was wondering if there is a section of your website where you describe the gear you're using to take the readings. I think there are a lot of people on this site that would be interested in that info. Thanks for broadening the discussion and really bringing some hard science to nico. Good luck in Detroit.
Re: (unichi)
very very nice...as said before I wish I had access to that kind of equipment.Please dont be a stranger, to this subforum in particular...
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
Detroit. Rocks.
I presented my drift paper earlier this month and received some fantastic feedback on my work. Hopefully I will begin collaborating with other researchers to make the results more meaningful to the drifting/racing/dynamics communities.
The paper is online at http://www.project240.net For full disclosure, don't expect anything that will shake the very ground on which modern science is based. Rather, it's an initial look at a dynamic system that has very interesting properties. I have two more drift papers planned within the next year. This will look at the stability characteristics (handling qualities/ease of driving) and dynamic modeling in greater detail.
As for the instrumentation write-up, that sounds like a great idea. I'll add a section to the website showing the current car-computer setup, which allows me to sync video and data streams to the AMD-based computer in the backseat.
I'm also considering publishing some of the results/project overview in an auto magazine. I have a few in mind, but any suggestions on editors that might be interested in this work?
As always, I'd love to hear critical review of the material.
I presented my drift paper earlier this month and received some fantastic feedback on my work. Hopefully I will begin collaborating with other researchers to make the results more meaningful to the drifting/racing/dynamics communities.
The paper is online at http://www.project240.net For full disclosure, don't expect anything that will shake the very ground on which modern science is based. Rather, it's an initial look at a dynamic system that has very interesting properties. I have two more drift papers planned within the next year. This will look at the stability characteristics (handling qualities/ease of driving) and dynamic modeling in greater detail.
As for the instrumentation write-up, that sounds like a great idea. I'll add a section to the website showing the current car-computer setup, which allows me to sync video and data streams to the AMD-based computer in the backseat.
I'm also considering publishing some of the results/project overview in an auto magazine. I have a few in mind, but any suggestions on editors that might be interested in this work?
As always, I'd love to hear critical review of the material.
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underground57
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:01 pm
- Car: '93 240sx fastback, '04 Frontier
Re: (Joojoo)
Sweet man! I've been waiting for an update. I'm in the middle of reading the Milliken book now (for fun). I'm thinking about going into this kind of stuff and am definitely interested in how you did the data logging and what you used.
Also, how do you see this information being used? Do you have ideas on products and/or innovations that could be marketable or are you just gathering data for the time being?
And out of curiosity, what made you decide on this as your area of study, and what do you plan to do with it once you graduate?
I'll try to get through your paper in the next few days as I have time. Keep us updated.
Also, how do you see this information being used? Do you have ideas on products and/or innovations that could be marketable or are you just gathering data for the time being?
And out of curiosity, what made you decide on this as your area of study, and what do you plan to do with it once you graduate?
I'll try to get through your paper in the next few days as I have time. Keep us updated.
Re: (underground57)
The Race Car Vehicle Dynamics is one of the most excellent books I've read. It is such a great overview of the factors that affect our beloved sport. Milliken (both) have done a great job putting physical principles (such as handling qualities, cross-coupling, and limit performance) in a racing perspective where only the lap time matters.
I've received several requests for more information on the data logging, so I'll add a section to the website and future papers that details the sensors, instrumentation, and recording devices. Apart from the analysis, it takes up most of my project-time, but I didn't realize it would be of general interest.
The biggest commercial use of the drift work is, not surprisingly, designing better components for drift cars. In addition to the driver feedback, if you could model the vehicle system and determine the parameteric variations to the dynamics due to a change in components (think spring rates, rebound, inflation pressure, suspension arm geometry, center of gravity), you could use the information to help design drift-specific components that increase both the performance capability and improve the handling qualities. With regards to performance, it could be as simple as increasing the maximum sideslip angle at which the vehicle can be stabilized. You can also design the chassis to help improve response during drift transition maneuvers, since these can be quite rapid.
Finally, as for my interest in drifting, I have enjoyed getting sideways since I started driving cars and watching rally racing. My aerospace work has many parallels with drifting, so it makes sense for me to apply the same analysis techniques that we use on aircraft (morphing airplanes in our case) to another system that tickles my fancy. Post-graduation, I'd love to post-doc at another research lab and continue pursuing these topics. Eventually, I want to be a research professor, which gives me the freedom to research such topics and interact with academics, industry, and government in pursuit of science - or amusement, whatever.
I've received several requests for more information on the data logging, so I'll add a section to the website and future papers that details the sensors, instrumentation, and recording devices. Apart from the analysis, it takes up most of my project-time, but I didn't realize it would be of general interest.
The biggest commercial use of the drift work is, not surprisingly, designing better components for drift cars. In addition to the driver feedback, if you could model the vehicle system and determine the parameteric variations to the dynamics due to a change in components (think spring rates, rebound, inflation pressure, suspension arm geometry, center of gravity), you could use the information to help design drift-specific components that increase both the performance capability and improve the handling qualities. With regards to performance, it could be as simple as increasing the maximum sideslip angle at which the vehicle can be stabilized. You can also design the chassis to help improve response during drift transition maneuvers, since these can be quite rapid.
Finally, as for my interest in drifting, I have enjoyed getting sideways since I started driving cars and watching rally racing. My aerospace work has many parallels with drifting, so it makes sense for me to apply the same analysis techniques that we use on aircraft (morphing airplanes in our case) to another system that tickles my fancy. Post-graduation, I'd love to post-doc at another research lab and continue pursuing these topics. Eventually, I want to be a research professor, which gives me the freedom to research such topics and interact with academics, industry, and government in pursuit of science - or amusement, whatever.