I read a random post the other night that said that a racing harness (assumed to be 5pt) is more dangerous on the street than the stock seatbelts. Can anyone explain the reason behind this, or debunk the claim?
I could see why you wouldn't want a roll cage on the street, but I would think you'd be better protected with a 5pt (from sliding out of seat, and side to side even).
Cheers,Jamie
Keep the harnesses off the street?
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sr20goofus
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- Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Keep the harnesses off the street? (slipnfall)
The factory seats are designed to work with factory belts. If you are strapped in tight with a 5pnt harness on the street (for some odd reason) and get in an accident where you are unconscious, the medics may not be able to get you out of the car, or you may not be able to get yourself out depending on situation.
I have been tracking for almost 5 years now, i only recommend harness's with rollbars or cages and a race seat. No factory seats, ever. There is no need to ever think you need a 5pnt harness on the street, if you do need one then you are driving all kinds of wrong.
I have been tracking for almost 5 years now, i only recommend harness's with rollbars or cages and a race seat. No factory seats, ever. There is no need to ever think you need a 5pnt harness on the street, if you do need one then you are driving all kinds of wrong.
Re: Keep the harnesses off the street? (sr20goofus)
'Got it. I asked before doing my fair share of searching... I didn't know it was commonplace to keep the factory belts in alongside a harness. The reason I asked is the car is primary for street, but may be making a move to primarily track time.
BTW did you go to PCT in PA? Alias looks familiar.
BTW did you go to PCT in PA? Alias looks familiar.
Re: Keep the harnesses off the street? (slipnfall)
That, and in case of a roll over, the factory three point harness will alow you to move to the side, where the 5 pnt would keep you in place. Even if the roof was occuping the same space.
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sr20goofus
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Re: Keep the harnesses off the street? (slipnfall)
Ya i graduated back in May 07 tho, been gone for awhile. I actually had my black 240 up there for about a semester in 2005 maybe. Not many people on campus ever saw it cause i was an Aviation student, spent most of my time at the airport and not on campus.slipnfall wrote:'Got it. I asked before doing my fair share of searching... I didn't know it was commonplace to keep the factory belts in alongside a harness. The reason I asked is the car is primary for street, but may be making a move to primarily track time.
BTW did you go to PCT in PA? Alias looks familiar.
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Cone Junky
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BMW e46 328i - Location: San Diego
Re: Keep the harnesses off the street? (slipnfall)
Another reason- Almost all harnesses only carry an SFI rating and are not DOT approved.
I run a 4 point when auto-xing, but leave my stock belt in place for the drive home. When I finally get my roll bar and seat, it will probably be setup with the harness only.
I run a 4 point when auto-xing, but leave my stock belt in place for the drive home. When I finally get my roll bar and seat, it will probably be setup with the harness only.
Re: (evildky)
driver safety is a grouping of parts not individual things
a harness with a stock seat and no rollbar shouldnt be used, ever. track, street, whatever. factories spend a LOT of money and time designing driver safety systems and when you go and start replacing things without knowing what you are doing you are only creating problems for yourself.
bucket seat + rollbar + 5 point harness.
not just 1 of those. ever.
a harness with a stock seat and no rollbar shouldnt be used, ever. track, street, whatever. factories spend a LOT of money and time designing driver safety systems and when you go and start replacing things without knowing what you are doing you are only creating problems for yourself.
bucket seat + rollbar + 5 point harness.
not just 1 of those. ever.
Re: (slipnfall)
Figured i would expand on this instead of starting a new topic. I have a few questions about harness types. What is the difference between a 5 and 6 point harness and should your seat have a hole in it for 5 and 6 point harnesses?
In mild AutoX is a 4 point harness good enough or do the extra 1 or 2 points make a huge difference?
Modified by xxmexx at 7:21 AM 6/29/2009
In mild AutoX is a 4 point harness good enough or do the extra 1 or 2 points make a huge difference?
Modified by xxmexx at 7:21 AM 6/29/2009
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Cone Junky
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BMW e46 328i - Location: San Diego
Re: (xxmexx)
Yes you should have the hole for the lower (5th/6th) points of the harness.
4 point is more than enough for auto-x. I know a couple of hard core guys that only run the lap portion on runs. My last event I ran a couple of runs with just the lap portion and I think I prefer it now.
I use the stock belt on the street and will only use the 4 point for track days.
4 point is more than enough for auto-x. I know a couple of hard core guys that only run the lap portion on runs. My last event I ran a couple of runs with just the lap portion and I think I prefer it now.
I use the stock belt on the street and will only use the 4 point for track days.
Re: (Cone Junky)
4 points should never be used. there is a reason that all racing organizations are outlawing them from the rulebooks.
the 5th/6th points are called "anti submarine" belts. they prevent you from sliding under the belts in an accident. granted in autox the chance of an accident is slim, but it DOES happen and you should be aware of that. it never hurts to be too safe.
your seat SHOULD have a provision for the antisub belts but if it doesnt you can still run it over the front and up to the buckle. its not really recommended to do it that way but its still safer than not using it.
the 5th/6th points are called "anti submarine" belts. they prevent you from sliding under the belts in an accident. granted in autox the chance of an accident is slim, but it DOES happen and you should be aware of that. it never hurts to be too safe.
your seat SHOULD have a provision for the antisub belts but if it doesnt you can still run it over the front and up to the buckle. its not really recommended to do it that way but its still safer than not using it.
Re: (Joe)
try checking your blind spot, or anywhere else other than pretty much straight ahead for that matter, while strapped into a harness. You can't. That is the main reason they are dangerous on the street. (edit: oops, didn't notice the date range of the thread)
Four point belts are perfectly fine for auto-x. I fact I would recomend it if you run the stock seats. Its the only way to stay in them. I have a 4130 tube steel harness bar that ties into the rear seatbelt mounts.
For anything more than Auto-X, yes go with 5/6 point and seat and cage etc. And don't forget the seatback brace so you don't find yourself in full recline after you back it into the wall in the Kink.
Modified by jamie at 8:52 PM 10/26/2009
Four point belts are perfectly fine for auto-x. I fact I would recomend it if you run the stock seats. Its the only way to stay in them. I have a 4130 tube steel harness bar that ties into the rear seatbelt mounts.
For anything more than Auto-X, yes go with 5/6 point and seat and cage etc. And don't forget the seatback brace so you don't find yourself in full recline after you back it into the wall in the Kink.
Modified by jamie at 8:52 PM 10/26/2009