KA24E-T not starting...arrghghhgh

[sstomek]

Here is a video of how the car is acting...



Alright, at first I thought that my car was not starting because of my battery tipping over and the acid spilling everywhere in my trunk. Well I replaced the battery and of course the car still doesn't turn on. I think I have had every possible problem happen with this car.

Anyways, when I try to turn it over it sounds like its gonna start, but doesn't. Starter is moving, distributor and cap is new, plugs are fairly new. Fuses looked good, alternator is new. It also doesn't start if I have the MAF unplugged.

My guess is that it might be a fuel problem, or a sensor came unplugged that is keeping the car off? To try and explain the sound, it will turn over like its going to start for about .5 seconds and then it will make this sound like the engine is flooded and just won't start. I tried holding down the gas pedal while starting it and no go.



EDIT: have some more troubleshooting information.

- Both ECU lights are on- Battery is reading 12.7V- We were afraid that some acid might have fouled up the fuel pump connections so we checked those voltages and got 10V when unplugged and 8 when plugged in.- We replaced the fuel filter. - We checked if there was spark and there was.- All fuses are good.- Wideband shows 18-19 AFR while starting (not sure if that helps)- I also have a SAFC hooked up.

some more info:

This problem has happened to my brother when he took my car to his work. When he went out to go get lunch the car showed no problems. When he got in the car to go back to work it wouldn't start. After he let the car sit for a while it started and he got back to work. And after that it supposedly never gave him problems.

-Tomek

Modified by sstomek at 1:03 PM 11/3/2007
Modified by sstomek at 2:13 PM 11/3/2007

[sstomek]

update bump

[chad_KAT]

Pull a injector and see if its cycling for fuel to come out. Or feel for clicking but thats not the best way to do it.

Did you remove your dizzy at all???

if you have a fuel pressure gauge or can find someone that has on chk pressure.

edit: should of read your full post..... besure you reinstalled your dizzy right. refer to FSM

[sstomek]

distributor was never touched, thats the wierd part. unless the timing can jump a tooth on its own then the timing should be good since it ran well then out of nowhere just stopped working.

The only item that could of screwed things up would be that battery when it tipped over. However, we replace that battery. The acid that spilled in the trunk didn't really affect the wiring cause we checked those. I'm going to see if those injectors are spraying and check the spark on all 4 cylinders.

After the ka-t project I have a lot of loose connections in terms of the sensors and everything. Is there a sensor that could make the car not start?

[nelson8708]

when you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump turn on. You should be able to hear it run for a few seconds when the key is turned to the on position. Sounds like the fuel pump connections are messed up. You should be reading close to battery voltage at the fuel pump wires.

[WWJD]

when you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump turn on. You should be able to hear it run for a few seconds when the key is turned to the on position. Sounds like the fuel pump connections are messed up. You should be reading close to battery voltage at the fuel pump wires.

not always true. there are people that "hot wire" there fuel pump as well as the stock coil to help keep it at 12V. Because buy the time Volts. get to the pump @ lets say WOT, Volts could drop to 4V (not good for the pump). Alot of KA-T guys do it cause they need all systems at full Volts.

On the Vid it sounds like the time is off

[lrb_2000]

have you rechecked your safc settings?

[Craving4Boost]

I know it may sound dumb but are you 100% sure the fuel lines are in correct? This happened to me. This just sounds like you dont have any fuel.

[S13FX]

Dude this is a simple problem. It's you discombobulator

[Tulsa_S-13]

Like someone already said, double check to make sure your fuel lines are connected correctly to the rail.

Your line out back to the fuel tank (no fuel filter) will be connected to the FPR while the line coming from the fuel filter connects to the nipple found at the middle of the intake runners.

[sstomek]

yes i checked safc settings.

Fuel pump does prime.

hmm fuel could be the problem here. Not sure if its cause the lines are crossed. Unless they crossed themselves cause like i said one day the car works. the next day i get in to go to work and it doesn't turn on

[Craving4Boost]

if your fuel lines aren't crossed...find a spare ECU and swap it. Might have fried somehow...

[sstomek]

if your fuel lines aren't crossed...find a spare ECU and swap it. Might have fried somehow...

even if both lights are on on the ecu? The ecu has been socketed and chipped so that is also a possibility.

[Jookmasta]

try another ecu. i've also seen this happen with a messed up knock sensor. the only other thing i can think of is safc settings............are you on a stock MAF? whats the in and out settings on the safc? also check timing to see if it jumped but i think that should be the last resort..................

[sstomek]

try another ecu. i've also seen this happen with a messed up knock sensor. the only other thing i can think of is safc settings............are you on a stock MAF? whats the in and out settings on the safc? also check timing to see if it jumped but i think that should be the last resort..................

don't really have another ECU, but like i said both lights turn on on the ecu. I don't think the E has a knock sensor. SAFC settings are 3 in 6 out i believe. Unchanged from when the car used to work though.

What I will try to do is take out the ECU and check for soldering defects or faulty parts. Problem is I don't have much time now and its getting damn cold out here.

[WDRacing]

I moved the other thread back to the KA forum incase you're looking for it.

I'd go down to the local autopart store, get a can or two of starting fluid then have someone turn it over as your spraying it in the TB. The let us know what happens. If it fires you have a fuel problem. If it doesn't you have a spark or a fuel problem. But atleast you'll narrow it down some.

When you say you have spark, have to held the #1 plug wire in your hand to see if it sparks when the motor is turned over?

WD

[S13FX]

Great Brian, you just gave him another reason to dream about you tonight

[FandZ]

odd ball things to check. Make sure your Radiator temp sensor is connected. I've done that a couple of times. Check all your ground wires are connected. I think I had the one by the o2 sensor off and it wouldn't start. If you pulled your Fuel pump fuse to empty your fuel lines when you changed your injectors I'd check that. If all those check out maybe pull the fuel rail and put the key in the on position to make sure you are not havening a malfunction there. I'd also try moving the distributor back and forth. Kinda sounds like your timing may be a little off.

It is cranking good so it is probably one little thing that is off.

[fiznat]

You need to check things systematically instead of jumping all over the place. Before you go out buying things, check the basics.

Make sure you are getting spark. Like Brian said, pull the #1 plug and reattach it to the plug wire. Hold the threaded part of the plug to the valve cover and watch it while someone cranks the car. Watch for a nice healthy blue spark. At the same time, smell the plug for fuel and check to see if it is wet.

Make sure you are getting fuel. After cranking the plugs should be wet with fuel when you pull them. This may be a silly question, but how much fuel is actually in the tank?

Make sure you are getting air. Check for a clogged air filter (leaves in the airbox are popular this time of year) or blocked throttle of some kind.

Check your compression on each cylinder. Expect it to be a little lower than normal since the motor is not warm.

Make sure your timing is correct. There are a few different DIYs here on how to properly set your dizzy timing. Leave this for last though because it is a pain in the *** and sometimes difficult to get right.

It is not likely any problem with your battery or starter since the motor sounds like it is turning over okay. Your alternator has nothing to do with this kind of problem, and opening the throttle all the way won't help get it started unless you've got some weird air blockage issue.

Was this car running and then suddenly it won't start now? What was the last modification or thing you changed/worked on? Has the car been sitting for a long time with the same fuel in the tank?

If you are sure you are getting fuel, dont keep cranking it over and over like you did in the video. A few times to check is fine, but over time the unused fuel will leak down the cyl walls and mix with your oil, which is no good. Already after this ordeal is over you should probably change your oil.

[WDRacing]

FOSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sstomek]

yea there is fuel in the tank. Yes the car was running and then suddenly stopped running. Came back one night parked the car, and the next morning I get in my car to go to work and no go 8( The last event was the battery tipping over in the trunk and acid going all over the place. This actually occurred at the exact same time when the problem started with the car. However, I replaced the battery and the problem persisted

thanks very much for the comprehensive list. This will be by checklist and ill come back with as much of the results as i can,

[sstomek]

You need to check things systematically instead of jumping all over the place. Before you go out buying things, check the basics.

Make sure you are getting spark. Like Brian said, pull the #1 plug and reattach it to the plug wire. Hold the threaded part of the plug to the valve cover and watch it while someone cranks the car. Watch for a nice healthy blue spark. At the same time, smell the plug for fuel and check to see if it is wet.

Make sure you are getting fuel. After cranking the plugs should be wet with fuel when you pull them. This may be a silly question, but how much fuel is actually in the tank?

Pulled the plug and it was dry. Checked for a spark and it wasn't a healthy blue but it was a healthy gold. Then we pulled the fuel rail up and put a piece of cardboard under the rail and when we cranked it not a drop of fuel came out.

Then I took off the fuel filter and from that line primed the fuel pump to see if anything would come out and fuel shot out like a monster.

Now my theory is that there is a problem somewhere in between the injectors and the fuel filter. I was thinking of the FPR. I was going to buy a NISMO FPR before this so I was going to buy one now along with a fuel pressure gauge. What do you guys think?

[240sxmech]

damn dude you dont listen, you dont buy anything till you know whats wrong. Pinch off the return line from the rail with the rail still up and cardboard still under try cranking if you have spray then go buy a fpr if no fuel then put a noide light in the injector and see if you are getting your signal. Before you try this blow in your fuel filter and see if it is clogged could be just that, BUT dont go buy parts before you know what the problem is...GOT IT ? GOOD

[sstomek]

damn dude you dont listen, you dont buy anything till you know whats wrong. Pinch off the return line from the rail with the rail still up and cardboard still under try cranking if you have spray then go buy a fpr if no fuel then put a noide light in the injector and see if you are getting your signal. Before you try this blow in your fuel filter and see if it is clogged could be just that, BUT dont go buy parts before you know what the problem is...GOT IT ? GOOD

alright no buying, forgot to mention that we sprayed some starter fluid into the TB and it started up. I'm going to try the pinching test (thanks for the idea). Another reason why I believe it might be the FPR is that while the car was working and under WOT conditions its like the fuel would get cut off for about a split second. But enough about that I am going to try that pinching test tomorrow. Thanks again!

[sstomek]

damn dude you dont listen, you dont buy anything till you know whats wrong. Pinch off the return line from the rail with the rail still up and cardboard still under try cranking if you have spray then go buy a fpr if no fuel then put a noide light in the injector and see if you are getting your signal. Before you try this blow in your fuel filter and see if it is clogged could be just that, BUT dont go buy parts before you know what the problem is...GOT IT ? GOOD

Alright we pinched the return line with the rail out and the cardboard under the injectors and still no spray. Also tried unhooking the vacuum from the FPR.

We are getting a multi-meter right now and are going to check the injector signals. Should post up some results in about a half an hour

[Florida240sx]

DO THIS FOR ME RIGHT NOW!!! RE-connect the stock wires for air signal the ones you cut for the safc. Re connect it so the safc has no control over the ecu. Then report back on if ANYTHING changes

[sstomek]

DO THIS FOR ME RIGHT NOW!!! RE-connect the stock wires for air signal the ones you cut for the safc. Re connect it so the safc has no control over the ecu. Then report back on if ANYTHING changes

How about just unplugging the MAF sensor? That should put it into limp mode right? If thats adequate enough than we have been trying these tests with and without the MAF plugged in.

Here are the results multi-meter readings.

Fuel pump 12V @ ACC then 10.6V @ IGNUnplugged injector clip 12V @ ACC then 9.8V @ IGNSecond cable on injector clip .200 V @ ACC then .600V @ IGN

[sstomek]

Modified by sstomek at 1:02 PM 11/27/2007

[sstomek]

bump?

[240sxmech]

great job on listening and doing those test. now you know that the fpr is not your problem, pull your fuel line off of your filter and try to start it to see if fuel is coming out. if so then you know you have fuel and check the injectors with a noide light while you try to start it not a multimeter. possible ecu not firing injectors but like i said before great job on listening most people on here dont listen to guys trying to help them, keep us informed.