ka24det

Your premier source for information on the Turbo KA: KA24E-T and KA24DE-T (KA with aftermarket turbo kit)!
240sxrider
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Postby 240sxrider » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

yo what up i'm new to imports but i just got a 93 240 and i want to get some real power out of it. i got a friend of mine who is putting a sr20 into his but i want to turbo my ka what would i have to do to get a least 300 rwhp to it?

:help


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ChickenBoo
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Postby ChickenBoo » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

I realize this is your second post, but since we have an entire subject devoted to the turbo KA, there prolly are already a couple of threads about it. Try the search button. ; )

george
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Postby george » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

what a stock KA is not enough power for you ? dam

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Postby CurlyStooge » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

george wrote:what a stock KA is not enough power for you ? dam


**** man, I cant handle my wapping hp numbers from the stock beast on my 195s, this guy is nuts if he wants to upgrade, lol.

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JESTER
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Postby JESTER » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

Correct me if I am wrong (which I usually am).

But to get 300 rwhp reliably, you are gonna have to build the bottom end. The basic turbo kits will give you say 230 to 240 hp on like 7 psi of boost, but everyone says it isn't safe to go any higher until you do the pistons and rods, etc.

After building the bottom end you will be good to go.

Note* Remember you are gonna be adding boost to an engine that was not design for forced induction. Sooner or later it will blow anyway. You will dog it out, just like I would and it won't last. That is unless you build it. (There will be differing opinions than mine of course).

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C-Kwik
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Postby C-Kwik » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

There are a few KA's running 350 HP on a stock bottom end. Nsport and XS Kits are limited to lower boost not because of the strength of the motor, but rather the fuel delivery. They use FMU's. If you run too lean, you will get detonation. Detonation breaks parts. With 370 cc injectors, you can probably hit up to about 11-12 psi max. According to JWT, the KA MAF and 370 injectors would max out at about 260 RWHP. Upgrading both should allow for more boost. I'm not sure what the limits of the KA internals are, but 15 is probably getting close.

And what do you mean by "not designed for forced induction". The only significant factor I see is the compression ratio. And the only reason factories tend to use lower compression on boosted applications is to have a greater margin of safety. But if you control detonation, there is no reason why a NA motor with a turbo added to it will blow. The few exceptions would be in cases where the internals aren't strong enough to handle boost, but most import motors are way overbuilt. Case in point, a NA Neon or PT cruiser has very thin rods that have seen failure at 7 psi. Chances are detonation probably had something to do with it, coupled with higher cylinder pressures, but the detonation may have been light enough that there was not evidence of it.

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Postby george » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

or those motors in question just succk and there is evidence of that

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C-Kwik
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Postby C-Kwik » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

george wrote:or those motors in question just succk and there is evidence of that


Well considering the New Turbo Neons and PT's use beefed up internals and see 14 psi, I doubt it's nothing more than the company's minimalistic approach to building motors. I have a friend who owns a shop that works on PT's that I help out with. Mostly cosmetic stuff, but I'm hoping he gets a customer with a turbo version that wants to upgrade. 14 PSI and the car is seeing more power at the wheels than claimed at the flywheel. And at that only some 225 or so. I'd say get a decent size turbo and you should see a whole lot more power at the same boost level. It's got the fuel system to keep up with 14 psi, the turbo is probably choking the motor.

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Postby zeardux » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

umm just so u know my friend has an neon and it is runnin 12psi on a completely stock bottom end. he has the good year motor too, i know this because i was the one who did all the work to his neon before i got my car. the engine differed from year to year, and dohc and sohc, as well as the trannys. for the 95-99 years there are like 3 different 5 speeds and 4 different 3 speed auto. the good engines in neon were the base line 95 with the sohc w/manuel tranny, granet that model that year got the worst manuel tranny, so the tranny does no justice putting the power of his engine to the ground very well. but his car is in no way slo. it is by far one of the faster neons i have seen. its able to rape s2000's off the line, and in a 1/4 mile. still dont know how much horse he is producing, never dynoed car, but its easily in the 250hp range at the crank. dont diss something u have never worked on just because the cars have gotten a bad name.

zeardux
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Postby zeardux » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

umm just so u know my friend has an neon and it is runnin 12psi on a completely stock bottom end. he has the good year motor too, i know this because i was the one who did all the work to his neon before i got my car. the engine differed from year to year, and dohc and sohc, as well as the trannys. for the 95-99 years there are like 3 different 5 speeds and 4 different 3 speed auto. the good engines in neon were the base line 95 with the sohc w/manuel tranny, granet that model that year got the worst manuel tranny, so the tranny does no justice putting the power of his engine to the ground very well. but his car is in no way slo. it is by far one of the faster neons i have seen. its able to rape s2000's off the line, and in a 1/4 mile. still dont know how much horse he is producing, never dynoed car, but its easily in the 250hp range at the crank. dont diss something u have never worked on just because the cars have gotten a bad name.

zeardux
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Postby zeardux » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

sorry about the double post having browser problem

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JESTER
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Postby JESTER » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

C-Kwik,

Like I said, correct me if I am wrong. I did neglect to mention fuel system, didn't I.

I have always been told that the higher compression engines, not designed for forced induction, won't last even with proper fuel managment if not built. Of course I have never turboed a car before. But you have people slapping super chargers on stock Stangs and Cameros everyday with no major adverse effects.

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C-Kwik
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Postby C-Kwik » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

JESTER wrote:C-Kwik,

Like I said, correct me if I am wrong. I did neglect to mention fuel system, didn't I.

I have always been told that the higher compression engines, not designed for forced induction, won't last even with proper fuel managment if not built. Of course I have never turboed a car before. But you have people slapping super chargers on stock Stangs and Cameros everyday with no major adverse effects.


Then you have heard wrong. Assuming proper fuel/detonation management, and good maintenancve, there is no reason a motor won't last nearly as long as an N/A motor. With only a moderate amount of boost, you can expect about 90% of the life of an NA motor. Most failures of converter turbo motors have to do with detonation. I've seen some cases of poor maintenance as turbo motors require a tighter maintenance schedule.

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JESTER
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Postby JESTER » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

So what would you say the max on stock internals is, with proper fuel managment and maintenance? HP, PSI?

What do you think as far as too much milage on a motor, considering the compression is good?

macdaddy
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Postby macdaddy » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

JESTER wrote:C-Kwik,

Like I said, correct me if I am wrong. I did neglect to mention fuel system, didn't I.

I have always been told that the higher compression engines, not designed for forced induction, won't last even with proper fuel managment if not built. Of course I have never turboed a car before. But you have people slapping super chargers on stock Stangs and Cameros everyday with no major adverse effects.


have you ever seen the bottom end of a stock 302 or 350? there almost bullet proof! I know people that get nearly 750hp on a stock 302, hell Ive gotten nearly 500hp on a naturaly asperated 302 with an all stock block and heads and it was easy with no problems for thousands of miles and still going. there not bulit like a 4 banger at all hence the weight. but any one can build an American V8 thats why Im trying my skill on a Japanese 4CYL

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C-Kwik
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Postby C-Kwik » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:23 pm

macdaddy wrote:have you ever seen the bottom end of a stock 302 or 350? there almost bullet proof! I know people that get nearly 750hp on a stock 302, hell Ive gotten nearly 500hp on a naturaly asperated 302 with an all stock block and heads and it was easy with no problems for thousands of miles and still going. there not bulit like a 4 banger at all hence the weight. but any one can build an American V8 thats why Im trying my skill on a Japanese 4CYL


A 302 is about 5.0 Liters. 500 HP is only 1 HP per Liter, which by todays standards are not exceptional. It is still good, but nothing that a typical motor should not be able to handle. And consider that the 302 would be spreading the load over 8 rods and pistons. Calibrating it to 4-cylinder standards, it's making 250 HP out of 2.5L. Now, if you really want an example of a well built motor, look at the Supra. I've heard of 750 RWHP on stock internals. Calibrating to 4-cyl, that's 500 HP out of 2.0L. Of course, this is a somewhat apples and orange statement, since I'm comparing turbo to NA, but my point is more about the strength of the internals. I did meet a guy with a Turbo Z28 Camaro running 9's. He looked at my T04B and said it was tiny. WTF? =)


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