I have a '92 240SX with some "slack" in the timing chain, according to my mechanic. He wants to replace the entire timing chain for around $1000. My question: can't I just replace the two tensioners? And since they're both near the top, won't it be much easier? Anybody have a step-by-step for this?
Thanks! See my thread on the 240SX Technical board for more info (http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....64596).
Oh, and layman's terms are appreciated. I've never done any engine work beyond changing the oil. =) I do have an FSM that I can reference though.
KA24DE timing chain tensioner replacement?
They aren't both near the top. The tensioner on the upper chain, relatively speaking, will be easier to reach. The tensioner on the lower chain...not easy.
You've got two guides and a tensioner on the upper chain. As far as I know, both upper guides are removable and no longer needed (one between the cam sprockets and one on the driver side, down a bit).
In total, there are two chains (upper and lower), two tensioners (one for each chain) and two guides (both on the lower chain). You cannot remove the lower guides (unless you want the chain to chew through the front cover) and I believe one or both of the lower guides has been redesigned.
Unfortunately, in order to get to the lower guides and tensioner, you have to remove the front cover. In order to remove the front cover, you have to remove the oil pick-up...to get to that you need to drop the oil pan.
Dropping the oil pan will require you to either lift the engine with a hoist or drop the crossmember. So, you'll either need to lift the engine with a jack or support/lift it with a hoist and drop the cross member.
If you're lucky, you can get away with replacing the upper tensioner and chain.
Nistech or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm by no means an expert. BTW, I feel your pain...believe me. Guess what I'm doing in a few weeks...
You've got two guides and a tensioner on the upper chain. As far as I know, both upper guides are removable and no longer needed (one between the cam sprockets and one on the driver side, down a bit).
In total, there are two chains (upper and lower), two tensioners (one for each chain) and two guides (both on the lower chain). You cannot remove the lower guides (unless you want the chain to chew through the front cover) and I believe one or both of the lower guides has been redesigned.
Unfortunately, in order to get to the lower guides and tensioner, you have to remove the front cover. In order to remove the front cover, you have to remove the oil pick-up...to get to that you need to drop the oil pan.
Dropping the oil pan will require you to either lift the engine with a hoist or drop the crossmember. So, you'll either need to lift the engine with a jack or support/lift it with a hoist and drop the cross member.
If you're lucky, you can get away with replacing the upper tensioner and chain.
Nistech or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm by no means an expert. BTW, I feel your pain...believe me. Guess what I'm doing in a few weeks...
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Yorb
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- Car: 1992 Nissan 240SX SE Fastback
- Location: Raleigh, NC
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THANK you for replying. =)
The only reason I thought they were both near the top is because that's where the FSM seems to draw them. =P now i see that i misinterpreted the drawing.
anyway, i think i'm gonna pop the valve cover this weekend and poke around to figure out what i need to do. question though:
you mentioned replacing the upper tensioner "and chain" - why does the chain need to be replaced? =/ am i going to have to buy the whole kit after all? still better than the $1k from a shop, but if im going to have to replace the chains and everything and do this oil business.... im gonna need a garage of some kind anyway. might as well pay the $1k.
i dont know what an oil pickup is or an oil pan... the FSM entirely fails to mention this seemingly crucial step. it just says to "drain engine oil from drain plug of oil pan." i assumed that was the same oil plug that you drain when you change the oil. =/ maybe i was wrong.
i dont know what the cross member is...i feel so mechanically challenged. =(
the FSM also says to drain engine coolant from the cylinder block and the radiator. is that necessary if i'm not going to be changing the lower chain and not removing the lower cover?
thanks. =)
The only reason I thought they were both near the top is because that's where the FSM seems to draw them. =P now i see that i misinterpreted the drawing.
anyway, i think i'm gonna pop the valve cover this weekend and poke around to figure out what i need to do. question though:
you mentioned replacing the upper tensioner "and chain" - why does the chain need to be replaced? =/ am i going to have to buy the whole kit after all? still better than the $1k from a shop, but if im going to have to replace the chains and everything and do this oil business.... im gonna need a garage of some kind anyway. might as well pay the $1k.
i dont know what an oil pickup is or an oil pan... the FSM entirely fails to mention this seemingly crucial step. it just says to "drain engine oil from drain plug of oil pan." i assumed that was the same oil plug that you drain when you change the oil. =/ maybe i was wrong.
i dont know what the cross member is...i feel so mechanically challenged. =(
the FSM also says to drain engine coolant from the cylinder block and the radiator. is that necessary if i'm not going to be changing the lower chain and not removing the lower cover?
thanks. =)
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Yorb
- Posts: 323
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- Car: 1992 Nissan 240SX SE Fastback
- Location: Raleigh, NC
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i just got my response from courtesy nissan (i asked them how much for just the tensioners)...here's the site he referred me to.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/S13_DOHC-TBKIT.html
why so expensive? =/ including buying the tools i'd need, thats like half the price of just taking it to the damn shop.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/S13_DOHC-TBKIT.html
why so expensive? =/ including buying the tools i'd need, thats like half the price of just taking it to the damn shop.
Well, tools aren't cheap (at least decent ones) but you only have to buy 'em once.
As for the parts, they are Nissan OE parts, so not as cheap as some of the other kits you might find around the web.
You probably don't really *need* everything in that kit. I suppose the rationale behind some of the stuff in there is that it's easier to replace a lot of stuff while you're in there working on the timing chain.
I'd be curious to see exactly which parts the dealership/other shop was going to replace when they quoted you. It might not include a lot of the stuff that Courtesy sells in that kit.
You might be fine just replacing the upper tensioner and leaving it at that. If the chain doesn't seem worn, but the tensioner is done for, that's a fairly cheap repair. It's really hard to tell until you dig in and take a look.
If you really want to get all the parts included in the Courtesy Nissan kit, you could always source them somewhere else. We've got some sponsors who sell those very same parts.
As for the parts, they are Nissan OE parts, so not as cheap as some of the other kits you might find around the web.
You probably don't really *need* everything in that kit. I suppose the rationale behind some of the stuff in there is that it's easier to replace a lot of stuff while you're in there working on the timing chain.
I'd be curious to see exactly which parts the dealership/other shop was going to replace when they quoted you. It might not include a lot of the stuff that Courtesy sells in that kit.
You might be fine just replacing the upper tensioner and leaving it at that. If the chain doesn't seem worn, but the tensioner is done for, that's a fairly cheap repair. It's really hard to tell until you dig in and take a look.
If you really want to get all the parts included in the Courtesy Nissan kit, you could always source them somewhere else. We've got some sponsors who sell those very same parts.
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Yorb
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:29 am
- Car: 1992 Nissan 240SX SE Fastback
- Location: Raleigh, NC
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i was wondering the exact same thing bomex. =/ i was thinking maybe it refers to hicas? wtf else would 4 way steering mean? but i dont know why that one would be cheaper.
anyway, i would probably only buy specific parts (chains, guides, tensioners) and not the whole lot as a set. gonna set aside time this weekend to open the valve cover and see which one (or if both) has (have) slack.
sweet sig pic btw. =)
anyway, i would probably only buy specific parts (chains, guides, tensioners) and not the whole lot as a set. gonna set aside time this weekend to open the valve cover and see which one (or if both) has (have) slack.
sweet sig pic btw. =)
Thanks Yorb, even tho I dont see my own sig:(
Anyway, I have the same problem as you. I have slack on my chain. I took off the valve cover earlier and I have slack (approx. .5in slack) on my upper chain. I wonder if the upper tensioner is as easy as just taking it out and puting the new one in kind of deal..like no special tools needed.
ANybody help?!
Anyway, I have the same problem as you. I have slack on my chain. I took off the valve cover earlier and I have slack (approx. .5in slack) on my upper chain. I wonder if the upper tensioner is as easy as just taking it out and puting the new one in kind of deal..like no special tools needed.
ANybody help?!
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Yorb
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:29 am
- Car: 1992 Nissan 240SX SE Fastback
- Location: Raleigh, NC
- Contact:
from all my research in this area, im pretty sure the only special tool you need for the upper chain is elbow grease.
the lower one requires dropping the oil pan, which requires a jack or a lift i think.
update on my situation: i just took off the valve cover and removed my upper guide (the only one i could easily get to). upper chain slack was minimal. it moved a tiny bit i guess, but it seemed fine. i thought it was pretty stiff. but then again i don't know how timing chains are supposed to be. =P anyway, car starts up fine, but the same noise comes back. either i dont know what slack is, or its my lower chain. =( interesting thing to note, though: sound is much quieter now, and it seems to almost completely go away after a few minutes of running at idle. this normal?
the lower one requires dropping the oil pan, which requires a jack or a lift i think.
update on my situation: i just took off the valve cover and removed my upper guide (the only one i could easily get to). upper chain slack was minimal. it moved a tiny bit i guess, but it seemed fine. i thought it was pretty stiff. but then again i don't know how timing chains are supposed to be. =P anyway, car starts up fine, but the same noise comes back. either i dont know what slack is, or its my lower chain. =( interesting thing to note, though: sound is much quieter now, and it seems to almost completely go away after a few minutes of running at idle. this normal?
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nlzmo400r
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- Car: '02 Nissan Altima QR25DE
'93 Nissan 240SX hatch KA24DE
well chances are if your chain almost completely stopped rattling when you took the upper tensioner off, then your chain is loose and needs new guides/tensioner. The only reason its ont rattling now is cause theres no tensioner to hit up against (but its still loose).............*waiting for Nistech*