ka24de swap issues

[dippingsauce]

ok so im doing a 90 ka24e to 91 ka24de

the engine i bought apparently (didnt know this at time of purchase) didnt run and today after i finished plug up everything i went to fire it and found out, its getting no spark

my question is what do you think could cause that


2) second i have a few wires unplugged i dont know what they plug in to i have pic of one of em

that orange plug coming off the wiring harness no clue what that plus into

3) the wiring with the wiring harness, the write up i used said we have to swap the dash connector. i have no clue which one that was so i swapped this one



so it could plug into the cars plugin (the ka24de one was wider) then i figured out it was the one at the end so i swapped that and matched up the wires it said

so thats all really unless you guys have any other advice for me

[newton240sx]

i mean id have to know more about it. did you buy the new ecu to match the new engine. and i know where that plug is in general but id rather have the picture from the front of the car looking down so i get the real perspective. it could be a number of things.

[poshatch]

lol i had the same thing when i was doing this swap for a friend

its most likley the wiring that you do when you swap it from sohc to dohc you have to splice by the ecu, that one plug that dosnt connect to anything, one of them i believe its orange and yellow is the ignition source to the ignitor coil, and thats whats probably keeping it from getting spark

[dippingsauce]

ill get more pics next time im at my dads, the ecu im going to check right now

it is possible i switched ecus because i had em close to eachother i could still be using the sohc

the only concern i have is that A) when emptied the oil pan, there was fuel in it like practically all fuel it was also in the crankcase. SO at that point i talked to the guy who sold me asking him whats up with htat he said he didnt know and then at that point informed me that the car didnt start to begin with and when i changed out the spark plugs the ones that came with it are brand new never even been sparked before

so, lets say for the time being before i get pictures that it wasnt the electrical, this engine came from an automatic 91 240sx im pretty sure.

[btm88]

The orange one should go to the ignition coil, and the white one is the dash plug.

[dippingsauce]

ok thanks ill try to get down there soon and plug that in and see if that changes anything but

as for the wiring harness ill get more pics of what i had to do and see if i did that right

[liquid_cool]

gas in the oil?..humm..seems the old owner was fuel loading with bad injectors or a bad FPR...id check those out while your there before you try to start it again bro..post back with what ya find.

[dippingsauce]

ok yeah ill check that too ill try to get a lot of pics and try some more stuff

but this might clear a few things up atm....on one of the writeups it said the sohc ignition coil wouldnt work on the dohc...but then it only mentioned the ignition coil on the s14 swap not the s13 swap

ALSO is there a way to figure out the year of my engine the guy i bought it from THINKS its 91 but hes not sure so if its not then i could have a whole load of problems i havent accounted for the in the swap

[btm88]

As for what year engine you have, if it has 3 bolts on the top of the valve cover it us from an S13 and if it has 2 bolts then it's from an S14.

[dippingsauce]

ok just got from workin on my car, today we swap out connectors for the coil from the sohc wiring harness because im using the sohc coil

the car still wont get spark to the spark plugs, we put in new cap,rotor,plug wires, and the spark plugs are brand new

what else could it be, i have an album on the photobucket that i took today if anybody could go over some and maybe if you see something that is off or doesnt seem like it should work let me know

heres the album: http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n167 ... ne%20swap/

A few questions/concerns we had

1) we think the distributor may be bad (how do you test the distributor)
2) theres left over wires on the dash connector are they important?
3) theres a few plugs i took a picture of that arent connected and we have no clue where they plug into
4) also if you see the dash connector if you see something wrong let me know

ummm we checked the coil and it is getting electricity to it, so i dont think its the coil unless theres just no way a sohc coil would work on dohc, even with the modified connector that IS getting power

thats it i guess for now (let me know if you need anymore info) i REALLY REALLY appreciate any help you guys have given so far, im super anxious to get this working haha

[comatoseculture]

Hey man. Stopped in to mention a couple things. First of all, I swapped an auto 91' into my 1990. So I have indeed done what you are attempting. Second, I did so without much of the knowledge I have since gained. In other words, I was pretty much blind going into it also. That said, I read and researched everything I could (granted there is not a whole lot of clear cut info. Mainly just the one old write up that's been linked to forever) and as a result I did not have the problems you are having.
The info on the internet says clearly to use the dohc ignitor. Why in the world would you think you could splice the sohc one into the dohc harness? JUST UNDUE WHATEVER WIRING YOU DID AND INSTALL THE PROPER UNIT.
Also, you mentioned there are these other connections not connected that you have no idea where they go. Guess what. Without any kind of indication as to which ones, we cannot help. You need to photograph EVERYTHING POTENTIALLY USEFUL. ESPECIALLY IF YOUR CAR IS STORED AWAY FROM WHERE YOU CAN RESEARCH/THINK/PROCESS/GROW MECHANICALLY.

PHOTOGRAPH THE MOTOR A DOZEN TIMES. and any connectors. we'll possibly be able to tell if its a newer model motor. prob not tho. And quick side note, if it's dumping fuel into the chambers the plugs should be fouled unless they have never ever ignited. suggesting something was wrong ignition wise pre-swap. Thats a whole nother diagnosis.

Sorry bro, trying to help, kinda in a bad mood, apologize, let me know how to help.

edit: ignition coil sends spark to distributer. Unless the coil works the distributer won't do anything but spin off the oil pump/timing chain. Prove the coil is sending spark to the distributer to prove the distributer isn't sending that spark to the plugs/therefor faulty.

edit/edit: wow. sorry. missed the photobucket link. taking a look to see if something pops out...
Ok, why is everything spliced? like you cut the old harness and spliced into the new dohc harness or something? And photo 2's white connector is the one you are later splicing? Def looks like an s13 and therefor no other year issues.

[comatoseculture]

photo 12 looks like the switch for full lock on the power steering line, which it looks like you have something else spliced to in number 11. hard to tell tho. Then number 13 are all vacuum lines obviously, should be photos/routing diagrams available for that. Number 14 looks similar to the coolant temp sensor (mine is red tho). And number 15 looks like a ground needs to be attached to the strut tower. again just trying to help. let me know what you need

[dippingsauce]

ok thanks for all your advice, i dont know if the coil is sending spark but, we used a multimeter to figure out the the coil is sending power to the cap

now im no mechanic so, electricity and spark could be 2 totally diff things, also the reason i spliced the old connector on is because i figured both the same wires and a wire is just a wire isnt it? lol dumb move but im out of cash so i figured if i saved 50+ on using the old ignition thatd be great but it appear we may need a dohc ignition coil then....beats a 150 dollar distributor haha

but ya prior to swap the engine apparently wouldnt get spark so keep that in mind ill try to get back over there soon and see if we can do more tests. i want to be able to try out a dohc ignition coil ...granted i need to splice the old connector back on -.- lol

[newton240sx]

i hope its coming along good. but i just wanted to say its not impossible to use the sohc coil pack . i used it on my dohc swap.

[dippingsauce]

how did you deal with the connector, did you splice it together like mine or did a diff method?

right now the reason there is no spark is between coil or distributor, those are the only reasons ive seen so far, coil being the cheaper of the 2

[comatoseculture]

There may be power but not enough to generate needed spark. I'd check for spark cuz it's free to check and easy to see/hear for yourself shadetree style ie screwdriver being grounded against the body.

Nobody said it was impossible, but they send a dif signal. do they not?

What did you do to make it work/what did whomever do to make it work?

edit: the best bet for you is to ask someone in the know to come check it out with you. Know anybody helpful?

[dippingsauce]

ya my dads friend is a mechanic im having my dad ask him what he thinks and maybe even come check it out, but my dad is always busy so i only get to go there like once a week if that >.<

[comatoseculture]

I will say this, mechanics are people and people are biased. If at any point it seems he treats the car or you unfairly, find somebody else. I know i'm jumping ahead of myself and this may not be relevant, but I am used to a lot of different mechanics with a lot of different theories and biases for/against japanese brands or even particular japanese brands. So hopefully your dad's friend is open minded and professional. Nothing worse then an old shade tree mechanic telling a kid to do things like disconnect the battery with the car running to test the charging system, and other nonsense that used to be relevant. I mean to say that there are people interested and specializing with these vehicles, make sure you give your car a fair shake. And please run things across us on the board before attempting anything crazy. I mean by all means live and learn, but we are here and we are trying to help.

edit: just in case this needs clarification, DO NOT EVER DISCONNECT THE BATTERY WITH THE CAR RUNNING.

[dippingsauce]

lol ok ill keep that in mind haha, but ya hes a cool guy i met him before, im going up there thursday and we are going to try a few things

[comatoseculture]

very glad to hear that bro. Keep us in mind.

[dippingsauce]

quick question i doubt this will get answered before i go to my dads in a few hours but its not too important till we fix teh spark issue

can the ka24e fuel injectors work on the ka24de engine? if the reason there was gas in the oil pan was bad injectors spittin gas then i would like to be able to use my old ones

[dippingsauce]

ok ok so today we saw it actually start and it sounded like a great engine so now that we know it CAN get spark just rarely, me and my dad are leaning towards distributor problems anybody agree?

also i have a few more pictures that i wanna know what to do with

first:



this little ground looking thing...where does it go and what is it

second:



this cable isnt long enough to fit, is there a way to make it fit or get the DE cable?

edit: just saw how blurry this pic is, its the cable that ISNT the throttle cable

third:


this is my exhaust, if you cant tell, what is supposed to go in the huge hole?


we are REALLY close to getting this done thanks for all the help

[comatoseculture]

Ok. I am trying to help but seriously, I can't say it's the distributer without knowing why YOU think it's the distributer. But if you messed with dist. timing and got it to run then yes, timing at the dist. is off. A timing light will make things easier in that case. Now for your pictures/questions...
1st is a ground that should bolt right to the firewall directly behind the motor.
2nd - the write up makes it clear that you need the dohc cables OR you can stretch it out, but I'd say source the proper cruise control and throttle cables so it is proper.
3rd is where the EGR piping is connected to the exhaust system. Source the EGR tube OR delete the EGR and block that hole.

And finally, if you didn't figure it out from looking, the dohc are side feed and the sohc are top feed. They are not plug and play/swappable.

Good luck

[dippingsauce]

well all we did yesterday was swap out the battery for one with more juice, then we just cranked it and got it to spark, then afterward it didnt spark...so me and my father figured the distributor wasnt DISTRIBUTING the spark correctly, i dont think its a timing issue but we can most certainly check to see if it is

[comatoseculture]

ok. do not mess with the timing. What voltage do you have at your battery sitting, and under starting load??? This is crucial.

[dippingsauce]

im pretty sure you want me to test this with a multi meter correct? i will def do this next time i head down there, ill give him a call today..i would have him do it but i have the key here with me

[comatoseculture]

Yeah check it with a meter. Better to have two people, one reading/probing while the other starts it. Check the sitting voltage first, during and after attempting to start the car. write down all three. I want at least 10v while under starting load. If you have that, you can rule the battery out.

[dippingsauce]

well before i came home that night we bought a brand new battery, but ill do this regardless just to see..im going over there friday and we r going to try and find a distributor and test that theory out

[comatoseculture]

Dude, messing with distributer timing can make things worse. If you and you dad got it to run where the distributer is, I wouldn't move it. I don't think it's the distributer. I think you had a battery with more voltage and that is the key. The battery can be brand new and no good. A LOT of batteries are recycled although they aren't advertised as such.

[dippingsauce]

well i didnt read that till after but hey good news we got it running, but i need a diagram or maybe some pics of the vacuum lines and where they go, practically all i think i need are just pics of the engine bay to compare and see how everything should be laid out

EDIT: Nevermind i found the vacuum lines diagram but if you still want to post some engine pics i wouldnt mind