KA24DE S13 Problem Need help passing smog Please HELP!

[puerkone]

OK, my registration has been canceled because I keep failing smog. I failed smog 7 times because I am not burning all the fuel. My spark plugs come out black. I gave my car a complete tune up. It is not smoking at all. It has brand new catalytic converter, brand new o2 sensor and no check engine light. I keep failing by a couple numbers of extra CO2. My car kind of struggles in low RPMS. Then the guy told me my engine might be out of timing. So today I spend the entire day figuring it out and still need help. So this is what I have in my engine specs.

I set up my engine to TDC. I am NOT! in 20 degrees stock KA24DE Timing.

Then, I followed this image.

My cams look like this at TDC.

My chain looks like this at TDC.

I am following this firing order.

My Distributor does NOT look like this!!. Instead it is facing toward piston number 3.

how do I fix this problem? Thanks

[NISSAN240SX12]

what you could do is get a timing light from a friend or buy one at autozone. the cheap one is like 40 bucks. it will help you determine what exact degree you are set at.

[puerkone]

can you explain in a bit more detail lol, I am having a hard time with the timing. how a timing light would help me find the right degree if the distributor rotor is facing the wrong sparkplug. what can i do man? I am starting at piston number 3 first then 4 then 2 and 1. arent I supposed to be starting at sparkplug number 1 then 3,4, and 2? isnt it supposed to look like this?



I just want to make sure my timing is at the right place thanks.
Modified by puerkone at 11:19 AM 7/4/2009

[mac_daddy]

could be off a tooth, u could set ur motor to tdc then pull the distributor and line it up with the rotor up with the #1 when u put it back in. but u are going to need a timing light to do the ignition timing on the crank pulley and set it at 20 degrees btdchope this helps

[puerkone]

Ok just to confirm.

I put engine to TDC not 20 degrees BTDC Stock KA24DE timing

then I set the distributor to piston or spark plug wire number 1

so the rotor should look like this at TDC not 20 degrees TDC right?

[mac_daddy]

yes but pull the distributor out then put it back in so it is facing the #1. dont try to turn the rotor while its still in place. then after thats set leave the distibutor just loose enough so u can play with it then get ur timing light and while the car is running point the light at the crank pulley where the marks are and turn the distributor till u reach 20 degrees

make sense?

[puerkone]

sounds great! I will go do that right now see what I come with thanks Ill be right back with the results.

[mac_daddy]

alright cool good luck

just curious, what part of sac are u in?

[Wc240]

what are your numbers? i was curious because you cant fail for high CO2. did you mean to say CO?post up your results afterwards

[carcrazyguy]

Quote »I just want to make sure my timing is at the right place thanks.[/quote]My question would be, "the right place for what?". In other words, factory timing, mild advance for more power, full advance for E85, Methanol, etc.? But if you are looking to get back to original timing (without a timing light), note the dirt or corrosion around the distributor bolts. In other words, if the timing was never adjusted (which is likely) you can remove one of the adjustment bolts and tell exactly where its washer sat for the past 16+ years (it should be shiny underneath).

But IMO, there is no reason for your timing to be off markedly unless someone has been tinkering...so your problem is likely the dozen other things that could be causing it. If you really feel the car is running too rich, I would check injector resistance and look for gas around the base insertion point to see if one is stuck open. But as a rule, the catalytic converter does the lion's share of the work...and an aftermarket unit may not be able to handle a car of this age (you didn't say if it was OE or not).

Anyway, one sure way to pass emissions...even if it doesn't fix your issue is to splash-blend maybe 30% E85 with the fill-up before testing. This is usually enough to drop numbers to legal levels, particularly if you were on the line before. Also, this helps to clean the combustion chambers too - an added (bonus) side effect. I like to run a 40-50% blend maybe every third tank myself...and my 20 year old 240 (with original everything) purrs like a kitten.

[puerkone]

ok so I am from rancho cordova in sacramento 95827. Alright today was a very interesting day.

I set the crank to TDC. Then, I opened the timing chain cover and both cams were in their place. Also, the chain was in its right position.



I am following this firing order.

In a s13 ka24de the distributor cap is facing vertically in around 8 and 2 Oclock.

piston 1 is at 9oclock and piston 3 is at 7 oclock

I looked at the distributor and the rotor was facing about 6 Oclock just as in a stop watch. I put the distributor about 9 Oclock and the rotor lined up with the cylinder number 1.

Then I put everything back together and the car never started.

Then I set the distributor at 8 Oclock and it started but struggled just like it was at the beginning all the same. then lastly I put the rotor at 7oclock and the car idled much better.

so here is my question, why at TDC I am starting on piston 3 and not 1? whats is going on lol can you guys explain? is that ok to be that way in piston 3 and not 1? lol

[liquid_cool]

you need to line up your dizzy one number 1 cylinder at 20 BTDC...not TDC...the TDC line up is only to check your cam position...do that..and it will start the first time with minor adjustments on the dizzy to get her to purr!..good luck..get back to us what what ya get.

[mac_daddy]

did u put the timing light on it?

[puerkone]

Ok since my cams, chain and crank are all line up now I am going to do the following tomorrow..

I will put my timing this time at 20 Degrees KA24DE stock timing

Then put the distributor facing spark plug number 1.

facing number 1

then use a timing light and get exactly 20 degrees.

So according to the following I should get an acceptable timing. I will post my results tomorrow. thanks for your great advice.

[mac_daddy]

not quite. first set it to tdc, then pull the distributor and line up the #1. put it back in facing the #1 and snug it up. then back the bolts off just enough so that u can turn the distributor back and forth. start the car and put a timing light on it to see where it is at. now u can turn the distributor clockwise (advance) and counter clockwise (retard). then put the light back on it and see where it is. do this until u reach 20 degrees btdc then tighten the bolts back up

understand?

[puerkone]

sorry I meant to do what you just explained. Man I am very disappointed on my KA24DE. I tried to do what you told me and the car only runs with struggle when the distributor rotor faces spark plug number 3. the distributor is counter clockwise turned all the way to the end in order to stay running. I tried lining up the rotor to spark plug number 1 and it wouldn't turn on. All it does it cranks but it does not run. It kind of wants to start but it doesn't. do you think I have a bad MAF or TPS? or EGR? wow I cant get this car to run good . Plus today I installed new spark plugs and it they come out black smelling like fuel. its crazy man its running at a good fuel pressure i dont get it.

[Wc240]

re-stab your distributor. sounds like its not timed right(distributor,not the motor)

Dont start blameing random components, this is pretty obviously a mechanical timing issue

[puerkone]

ok I am going to set the timing the way you said again today and see what happens... I will comment the results tonight. thanks for the patience.

[Wc240]

not so much the timing, but pay close attention when putting in the dist. it honestly sounds like your off a lil when you put it in

[argonjunkie]

your leaving out very important information, please post at a minimum a pic of the VIR wich is the report from your smog test attached to your work order a scan would be ideal.

does the VIR state that there is a timing fail? if not your probbably making things worse

as previously stated you cannot fail for o2 or co2 only CO carbon monoxideHC hydrocarbons or NOX oxides of nitrogen

[puerkone]

well great news every1. Finally after hours of work! I finally made the distributor face the right way. turned out that the distributor was a tooth off. I narrowed it down and the distributor rotor was facing almost sparkplug number 1 and 3. In between of both. Now that I have good timing I am going to give my car another try at the test only center probably tuesday. I have to fix 2 last things. I just bought a new catalytic converter cuz my old 1 had cracks and holes in it and there are 4 tiny pipes under the throttle body. I directed 2 of them to the intake tubing but have not yet found where the other 2 go. so here is my last question, do you guys have any idea where do those 2 pipe hoses go? do they attach here?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors..._1088

thanks.


Modified by puerkone at 1:19 PM 7/12/2009

[Wc240]

glad to here you stuck to it and got it right. make sure to warm up the cat before you take it in and post your results when your done.the fsm, look at the vacuum/emissions control diagram for routing. let me know if you cant find it and ill go look, right now, im lazy. if you still have the emissions label under your hood itll tell you also

[puerkone]

which one is the atmospheric line and the vacuum line for the PAIRC Unit? which one is which? the one with the sensor or the other 1? thanks

[skywalkinv003t]

heres how u fix that problem. move down here to fl and burn up the atmoshpere