KA24DE Rebuild

[AhmadG]

Hey guys, I've been doing a lot of reading on NICO and ka-t.org, and I just wanted some advice from you KA-T'ers. I'm located in Toronto, Canada so everything is more expensive here lol.

I'm aiming for a mild but torquey and quick spooling setup, somewhere in the high 200's in terms of whp. I'm going to run N/A with this rebuild for a year or so until I can save up for my turbo parts.

I have a friend who has a 550whp T67 KA-T who will be doing all the work for me. He has a KA24DE in his garage which he blew a ringland on, which he will rebuild, then he will take the running KA in my car, so my car will always be on the road.He quoted me $2500 bucks to get the longblock rebuilt with the following included.

Engine removalArias 9.0:1 Forged pistons 0.02" overStock Rods (just inspection, not new ones)Decking the head (not rebuilding, just inspecting the parts)Hot tanking and decking the blockFelpro HGPossibly ARP headstuds and rod boltsEngine reinstall

Will I regret not upgrading the rods?

Thanks very much for your advice, and if I'm missing something please chime me in, I have a very limited budget, this is why I'm going in steps rather than taking shortcuts.

[480sx]

To be honest with you, if your only going for a mild build(350 hp or less) you dont need forged internals. However because your going to use a block thats got blown ringlands, you might need to oversize anyway, so going with forged/oversized pistons might not be a bad idea.

Its been proven that the stock pistons in the Ka are actually pretty strong. If you have a good tune and dont get any pre-det, the stock rods will actually fail before the pistons do.

[AhmadG]

Most people are convincing me of going SR because of the reliability, practicality and good gas mileage.................since this is my daily driver and I am not too mechanically inclined.

The problem is that I'm beginning to become convinced. WTF is wrong with me lol.

[neverlift]

smoking too much of the wd stuff

my kat gets way better mileage than my buddies sr was getting, I could drift for our hour or so sessions on 5 bux, he had to drop 20+...

a reliable ka is all in the tune/fuel(meaning you cannot fux with timing and fuel)

8psi on a t3 and an fmu wouldnt need much timing adjustment lol

[480sx]

SR is a great freaken motor, and it will get better MPG's than a Ka-T. Although if your boosting all the time its not going to make much of a difference. You can get 30+ mpg out of a SR on the highway, a ka-t gets about 28. The difference shouldnt be enough to sway you either way really. It all comes down to your skill set and your access to tools, ect.

Honestly, if you dont have much mechanical ability and dont have people around you who do, a SR is a better bet IMO. Its just so damned simple to swap in a motor, swap a wiring harness and a ecu, then wire it up add fluids and drive it off.

[AhmadG]

I was talking to the SR dude today, he quoted me $4500 installed at a shop. This is with no extras except a downpipe. Damn.........that **** is expensive, especially for 170whp and a jap kid's 15-17 year old abused ex-engine lol.

He also said that my built KA would run like crap N/A and the timing would be off.......I'm only going from 9.5 to 9.0 or maybe 8.8 depending on the pistons i get, I doubt that'll make a significant difference.....

Has anyone else ran a built KA naturally aspirated for extended periods of time? Did it feel slower? After break-in I want to be able to beat the piss out of it, as if it was stock, and I'm hoping for a bit of extra power lol.

Thanks in advance.

[neverlift]

well decreasing compression is going to decrease power slightly...The few ponies you lost are not that noticable.

ask that shop why its going to run like crap and your timing be off! timing will be just what it should, this is going to ran off a maf so the afm/tps will designate timing via the amount of air passing the afm... dood is nuts.

You will not be the first person to build his motor then get around to boosting it.

480sx, I just speak from what I see, and the sr's I've seen dont get good mileage at all, highway/city/drifting

ok, I am bias, sr is a decent motor, the cost to power is not good IMHO, for 4500 I could have a built ka-t making in excess of 300whp that was uber reliable.hell as thrifty as I am, I could have 2 built motors and dyno time, to blow one. But thats me doing ALL the work cept for machining...

sr is more boosted bolt in and go, but a ka at same boost makes more powa

[quontime]

Not nice to called Japanese Jap!

[480sx]

I was talking to the SR dude today, he quoted me $4500 installed at a shop. This is with no extras except a downpipe. Damn.........that **** is expensive, especially for 170whp and a jap kid's 15-17 year old abused ex-engine lol.

He also said that my built KA would run like crap N/A and the timing would be off.......I'm only going from 9.5 to 9.0 or maybe 8.8 depending on the pistons i get, I doubt that'll make a significant difference.....

Has anyone else ran a built KA naturally aspirated for extended periods of time? Did it feel slower? After break-in I want to be able to beat the piss out of it, as if it was stock, and I'm hoping for a bit of extra power lol.

Thanks in advance.

First off, NEVER take anything at all to that shop, the 'SR guys' shop. He has no idea what hes talking about, or is trying to con you. God i wish i could swap SR's in all day and make 2500 dollars profit ROTF. 2000 dollar engine, 2500 dollars in labor for.. Swapping in a wiring harness, and a bolt in motor, you have gotta be kidding me. Also, his line about your car not running because the 'timing would be off' is complete and utter bull ****. Your car will run fine with lower comp pistons. Its prly going to feel faster because you would be running a brand new engine with perfect compression. Even if it doesnt, you wont lose much seat HP if any at all. Dont expect extra power though.

Also, i have a stock s13, gutted with a redtop. I got over 30 mpg driving up to Maine. It put down an 8.5 in the 8th mile which is roughly equivalent to a 13.2 in the quarter. Exhaust manifold, 3 inch catless exhaust, and a big FMIC. Its gotta be near 230 HP in stock trim. I really need to take it to the scales and figure out what kinda power im making, but thats another story. Point is, a well maintained SR even in stock form kicks ***.

Not nice to called Japanese Jap!

Man no one meant anything derogatory by it, sorry if we offended you. Its more of an abbreviation than a racial remark, although i can see how you feel that way. Were not racists, even though we might make the occasional remark that might lead you to believe otherwise.

[240sxvaj]

I was talking to the SR dude today, he quoted me $4500 installed at a shop. This is with no extras except a downpipe. Damn.........that **** is expensive, especially for 170whp and a jap kid's 15-17 year old abused ex-engine lol.

OMG $4500 that is a lot or is it because your in canada? lol .. i was offered $4000 out the door for a full s14 sr20 swap. and $3000 for the complete motor to swap. But i am fully built ka-t now . honeslty sr's are good but when you're going sr you wont have as much torque and trust me torque makes me more happier. 2.4L > 2.0L

honestly the only way you would blow your motor is from bad tune, or if your around 700whp w/ stock internals.

and make sure if you upgrade piston then upgrade your rods. this is something that you will deffinately regrett. what if you decide to boost higher later and find out you have to tear up the motor just to replace your rods. think about it

[neverlift]

honestly the only way you would blow your motor is from bad tune, or if your around 700whp w/ stock internals.

and make sure if you upgrade piston then upgrade your rods. this is something that you will deffinately regrett. what if you decide to boost higher later and find out you have to tear up the motor just to replace your rods. think about it

uh stock pistons are good to at least 500whp, rod must be as well cause nissanfanatic hit 5xx with stock block... again in the tune..

op 2500 you should have him put in better rods /

480sx lol if I gut my car I'm sure I could get well into 30mpg, I was getting 45~53mpg n/a ... If only I had maptrace and how much boost did you run to get that time? A ~stock~ sr(which you dont have manifold/exhaust/IC) does not make 230whp at 7psi, 205(crank) -17% drivetrain loss = 170whp, lol my boys bolt on n/a ka makes 160 whp

again I cannot justify the cost to power ratio, with a grand you can do a near 200whp n/a ka. IDK if your own mechanical skills are not up to the task, sr is a better bet.but for roughly a grand you could do a 8psi t3 setup with an fmu, no 300 dollar tune, no wideband. Hardest part would be the oil return(pan needs to be removed(I didnt))... Yeah parts would need to be used to accomplish this, but an sr is used as well....

[DevilMB3017]

Just my $.02.

I ran a built block KA for 6-8 months before turbo'ing it. Put about 2K on the clock I believe.

Arias 8.8:1 pistons, new AMS Rods, Crower V2 Cams, new valves, Cometic MLS headgasket, new timing kit and oil gears...the 'works' pretty much. The motor felt stronger mostly because of the cams and it running properly.

I will say that I actually was able to advance my timing, per my engine builder, and it ran a bit more HP, maybe 5-10 or so.

[480sx]

Oh yea i forgot to mention i maxed out the t25.. I mean the whole idea of having a bone stock SR isnt really feasible, no one runs a bone stock SR. When you swap the motor pretty much everyone does a FMIC, little bolt ons and turns up the boost. So the estimated factory HP is way under that motors potential in 'stock' trim. No way you were getting over 40 MPGs out of a N/A ka.

[kouki_hmongster]

uh stock pistons are good to at least 500whp, rod must be as well cause nissanfanatic hit 5xx with stock block... again in the tune..

op 2500 you should have him put in better rods /

i know about cory's set-up but you know that it wont be reliable at that 500whp. depending on how you drive it might last for a bit but this power is not recommended w/ stock internals. But yes it is doable. i heard cory blew a few engines already.

anyone who wants a reliable car w/500+whp knows that stock internals wont last long.

it would be a waste to upgrade piston and stay stock w/ rods. because you know most of guys that say they want only 250-300whp will crave for more later, so why not do it now.

[AhmadG]

Trust me man, there's no way in hell I'm going over 400whp with my wet noodle of a chassis, thats scary as ****. I sat in a twin turbo BMW 335i which has like 300 hp to the crank, and it hauled ***, even for a 3600 pounder!!!!!! Plus I have so much other work to do on the car.......suspension, bodywork etc..... I really believe that if my block can reliably handle 350+whp, and I run it at less than 300whp, I should be good to go.......

You guys are right, I might regret it down the road, but I can deal with not having over 350whp from a 4 cyl in a 2900 lbs. car!!!! lol This car is incredible amounts of fun at 120ish whp....250whp should be deadly, THATS MORE THAN DOUBLE!! :P

The stock rods, they should be reliable to 350whp from what I've read.

To the person who confirmed that a 8.8:1 KA runs great N/A, thank you very much, that is just what I wanted to hear. NICO ftw!!! Btw what did you run the timing at, 22-24°?

Another issue I'm a little hesitant about is the KA that I'm getting was boosted before and broke a ringland.....hopefully the honing will take care of any damage to the cylinder walls.

Once again, you guys are awesome, just the right kind of community for someone like me trying to learn everything :P. Once this rebuild is done I'm going into the full turbo kit piecing and research about tuning mode. CalumRT looks promising and uber cool due to the on-the-spot tuning. Emance also seems like a good bet. I've been advised to go T3/T4 48 trim, because it spools quick and suits my power goals. Hopefully I'll see positive manifold pressure before 3K. I'm getting sidetracked again, sorry.

Thanks again for the responses.

[AhmadG]

Some financial issues have come up, and I can't afford the built KA anymore. I can however go for an OEM rebuild. And I need it bad, my dad was driving the 240 got pulled over for blue smoke hahaha, got a warning.

So lets say about a grand for an OEM rebuild plus a few hundred for installation. I should be good to go.

Most important thing, now I will probably plan a bottom mount SR-like setup with a T28BB or a disco potato, and push something like 240whp reliably, with insta-spool and just pure pleasure from the instant response and low-end torque. Thats what I wanted the whole time......but was advised against it by Draggone from SON240 (he suggested I go T3/T4 .48 trim for good spool, good power output, and his KA-T buddies claimed its not picky about oil since its not a ball bearing turbo, also it won't be spooled when I'm cruising on the highway and I'll end up getting better mileage.........any input or advice??)

Sounds like a plan, I'm definetely excited. I'm still a little worried going the KA route....will my setup last with an Emance tune, and ONLY an Emance tune, with of course a wideband and gauge, for monitoring. I'm aiming for pure reliability and fun, and 300whp is overkill atm considering my age and experience. 120whp is boring as **** though, my dad's 3.8L FWD V6 olds can leave me in the dust lol.

Thanks again guys, you've been a great help. I'll continue to do more research on tuning and setup plans, I read KA-T related stuff even while I'm in class lol.