ka24de: made in Mexico?

[420sxse]

I have heard that the ka was made in Mexico (Aguascalientes or something), but my KADE block (in a 240) has "NISSAN JAPAN" stamped on it. Does anyone know where this engine was made? Were different versions (e, de) or applications (truck/240) made in different places?

[Brianppp]

Correct, except the KA24's for the 240 were made in Japan exclusively, lucky you, huh?

[420sxse]

Well, nothing against the Mexicans, I'm sure they can do good work, but it isn't capability that matters, it's caring about the end result. You just can't beat the dedication of the Japanese towards their products. Well, perhaps the Swiss and Germans can. Of course, this begs the question of quality differences between the American built KA's and those in the 240.

[Brianppp]

Haha, I wouldn't dare own something such as a car that was partly manufactured in Mexico, that would suck knowing that. Not to be racist or anything, but when you're spending thousands of dollars, I want quality.

[420sxse]

I'm pretty sure that rules out every car manufacturer originating from this continent for you. When they say "American" car...well, the U.S.A. is a small part of America.

[fly_by]

the metal that they use to make the car in mexico is better than japan. America sends crappy metal to japan. now quality. Japan can do a better job.

[se-rious]

that was a pretty dumb statement by brian. who are you to judge the quality of an engine? how well do you know your nissans? i think the b15 sentra se-r is an outstanding vehicle. the sentra is made in aguascalientes, mexico. even though the sentra wasn't made in japan, i still see it as a japanese vehicle with japanese quality. not just because a car is made in a different country is it going to be made to different standards.

[deviousKA]

The nissans manufactured in mexico are of the best quality available.

And that also goes for the engine specifically, the mexico cast blocks/heads/cams and the forged cranks/rods are equal in most respects but superior in others.

Mexicans in general have more respect and understanding of Nissan motor company than people in the US, your comments are ignorant and racist oriented.

That is the opinion of a german american btw, dont make the rest of us look bad with your stupidity.

[Brianppp]

Okay.

Regardless of what you say I'd feel better knowing my car was manufactured in Japan rather than Mexico. That's just me.

[Mau240sx]

The nissans manufactured in mexico are of the best quality available.

Thanks for your comments, I'm Mexican and i agree with you.

Before my S14 i only had water cooled VW's (Passat 16V, Rabbit, Golf GTI, Jetta GLX) and i can tell you that the Mexican VW's have the same quality as the German ones. Same thing with Nissan, Sentra SE R (Mexican) was made with same standards as my Japanese S14, so please don't think Mexican = Bad Quality

What about the Mercedes Benz ML320??? Is it bad because it's assembled in the USA instead of Germany???? I don't think so....

Best regards from Mexico

[deviousKA]

91~98 truck and the 93~98 altima are also manufactured in mexico, probably a couple other chassis as well.

Brianpp, you said the wrong thing in the wrong place

Mexico rwd ka24 have better cylinder block casting than the 89-98 240sx, they also have many more dimensions carried over from the L/Z series in comparison to the japanese version (cranks, flywheels, starter arrangement etc.). This means they are directly compatible with nissan/datsun components that had been in use 15+ years before their time (think racing). The mexico rwd ka24 has the same flywheel as the inline 6 280zx turbo, in both the 2wd and 4wd versions as well. Combine all that to it having better structural integrity to begin with and you have a winner.

This cant be said for the japanese version with its one-off starter/girdle and flwheel combination and a odd offset flywheel that has 15mm less mating surface diameter. The cylinder walls and deck surface are thinner and werent designed to be put under near the amount of stress that of a 4x4 extra-cab truck, clearly evident in design.

Oh and btw, The most power naturally aspirated ka24's ever created use blocks/heads that are "hecho in mexico". I dont know if you noticed but you are in a naturally aspirated ka24 forum, you probably dont have much else to add to this particular discussion, I think i cleared everything up.

[wild_maxx]

HAHAHA

Don't mess with devious.... he will tear you a new *******. He probably knows more about nissan motors than 90% of people on this forum....

He has helped my out in numerous situations and is a very nice guy... you may need his help someday....

[91RMKS13]

I think the problem here is people do not want a motor without that JDM sex appeal if you would call it that. i think for some ka owners it is an upset that the motor was not used in japan. myself i couldnt care less all i know is that the motor i have is more than capable of what my goals are.

I say Japan or Mexico Nissan quality is Nissan quality.

[91RMKS13]

And there is nothing wrong with things made in Mexico.

Bender was made in Mexico.

http://www.geocities.com/zoidberg_fan/bender.html

[420sxse]

Well, devious, you've convinced me. I'll be looking for a Mexican engine. Thanks for knowing so much I also saw your post about the difficulties of attaching a dry sump oil system to a 240sx KA; another strike. Is the 93-98 Altima engine identical to the Truck engine? I know there were some RWD Altimas early on...all of them in those years? I'm just finishing a rebuild (stock) after 4 years of slow decline of my engines sealing abilities, and already I'm making plans for a new one. Damn the bug! My main hobby seems to be collecting hobbies :PAs far as the Mexican work ethic goes, I never meant to bash it at all. I was asking a question out of mild curiosity. I remember when I worked at a place that made doors, this group of Mexican/Central American guys would stay over for hours every single day. It took me a while to figure out they were re-doing a lot of our work. My remark was referring to the thought that Japanese workers working on a Japanese product that represents them to the rest of the world care more about the quality of that product than Joe(Juan)-Schmo just trying to put food on the table. The same goes for the folks making Hondas a few miles from me. They still do a good job, but their hearts aren't in it like the Japanese's would be. I don't doubt devious's testament to the Mexican engines quality, though.
Modified by 420sxse at 12:32 AM 3/5/2006

[91RMKS13]

if i were you i would take a look at what you would like to do and what you are easily capable of. you should set realistic goals and see if your engine is capable of them. i mean is a dry sump that important yea it would be cool but are you really going to need it, and do you need that little extra bit of strength out of the motor i find it hard to believe that you will be pushing the limits of its capabilities. plus a lot of companies are making parts for the 240's ka because of this drifting craze.

the motor you have is probably easily capable of whatever you are planning to throw at it.

[420sxse]

No, I personally have no plans for a dry sump system. My power goals are pretty modest...230-250 bhp is my target range. Not N/A, though. I really like N/A power, but I want to experiment with a turbo...I've never driven a car with one before.

[91RMKS13]

No, I personally have no plans for a dry sump system. My power goals are pretty modest...230-250 bhp is my target range. Not N/A, though. I really like N/A power, but I want to experiment with a turbo...I've never driven a car with one before.

well then stick with the motor you have then since it will do what you want

[420sxse]

>well then stick with the motor you have then since it will do what you wantI can't build it while I drive it I've learned that the hard way. The main problem, I believe, is not the issue of getting electricity to the spark plugs (in a drawer, for instance), to the cumbustion chambers. Nikola Tesla said electricity can be sent wirelessly (this was before he went crazy so I believe him), though range would be limited. The real problem, as I see it, is the thermodynamic/entropic mess that compounds as dissassemly increases. Especially when wheels, suspension items, pistons, rods, or the crank are absent; as kinetic energy may prove impossible to transmit without a frictional interface. The rest could be done with wormholes, I suppose. But why go to that trouble, when I can get a spare engine to idly tinker with. Also, another advantage of a Mexican KA: they are less likely to come from an abusive owner, because more of them are owned by older, non racer wannabes.
Modified by 420sxse at 5:36 AM 3/5/2006

[deviousKA]

I was just messing with the guy, basically. An oppertunity to throw some actual information in and set the record straight as well.

The fwd altima blocks I dont work with a whole lot, I have inspected/rebuilt a few and they dont seem to be quite as stout as the rwd truck version. I use the mexico fwd heads for a lot of things though, those things are awesome. Nothing like a hybrid composed of high quality parts covering a range of over 20 years.

The altima never came in rwd and the fwd blocks cannot be fashioned rwd without custom bellhousing or major modifications. Your probably thinking of the early maxima that was rwd, like 83-84 or something along those lines.

Hah, heres a funny story. We used to have an 87 nissan desert runner (d21, a real desert runner with r/w/b race paint) that we had set up as our main car hauler (we haul all of our cars with nissan trucks, always have). Anyways this truck was built up quite well, full custom suspension, 95 efi/ecu conversion, toyota bumper with skidplate and winch, non-window camper shell, all kinds of good hillbilly stuff like that. Well we decided to retire the truck so we repainted it and slapped on a set of 35" bfg's with new flares, one of kind truck. This Mexican guy that had bought 2 nissans from us before wanted it bad, to take back to mexico for his ranch work. Anyways long story short this truck is now owned by the mexican government, those signs they have that say "dont bring guns into mexico", well they mean it. Id imagine it has a police light bar and loud speaker on it by now, so watch out for big-red when your partying in mexico.

Also, something else that some may find interesting. You would be surprised on just how far south the people with the fastest ka's originated from. Im not talking about 9's, 10's, or 11's, im talking pulling wheelstands and running 7's. I would say at least the top 3 are owned by some crazy hombres.

[Brianppp]

I say Japan or Mexico Nissan quality is Nissan quality.

True that. I still prefer a Jap engine.

[420sxse]

devious, do you have any good links to info on parts interchangeability between the ka24e/de and other engines, Nissan or otherwise? Your talk is kindling the spirit of Dr. Frankenstein. Who knows, maybe I'll build for N/A power. Do I really NEED 240 hp? No, but it WOULD be freaking sweet to have a 240bhp 240sx. Although, I can't discount the pleasure I would derive from whomping everything on the road with a piddly little rice-mobile that looks stock, so who knows, I could always get an RB25 or 2JZ and shoot for the moon. So in all actuality, I could deviate in either direction from my plan. A modestly boosted KA seems the most likely route, though. And the six route is least likely. I prefer my base to be a USDM engine. An SR20 swap is not happening. I'm thinking four...four shall be the number of mine cyllinders, and four cylinders shall I have. I shall have not three cyllinders unless I havest also one more...eight is right out.

[Ajax]

I'm thinking four...four shall be the number of mine cyllinders, and four cylinders shall I have. I shall have not three cyllinders unless I havest also one more...eight is right out.

Brilliant! I love it.

Out of curiosity, how big a difference is it between the blocks on E and DE, say in terms of wall thickness and how much you can bore it out?My DE was overbored .050 over I think is what my mechanic said and that it still had plenty of structure left in it.

[420sxse]

a search for recent posts containing "ka24de bore" in the title yielded two threads, one containing this from (who else?) deviousKA himself which also contains info on the Mexican block to boot, but he already mentioned it above:

No major advantage to boring out anymore than the stock max 90mm. I have gone to 91.1mm maximum, and 90.5mm on a 2.4l nissan block. I run the 91.1mm bore in my japan ka24e 240sx block, if done correctly and after sonic testing the block this bore is ok. Oringing is not an option without special 4 bore siamesed ring and even then its slim. Headgasket fit and seal is main importance, custom copper is best option imho,i had ordered a stack of various before i found one with the best fit.btw. the mexico cast ka blocks specifically rwd truck have the thickest cylinder walls.

Hooray for redundancy. and no, I't's not brilliant...I'M A HACK I have to edit Monty Python quotes to be funny!!

[DriftingJesus]

Who how did I miss this?

Don't bash Messicans cus pwn joos

Seriously though dude I can honestly say that Mexicans are some of the hardest working people out there, and also show alot of pride in their work, so you can be sure that you'll be getting a quality product

[420sxse]

I think a lot of the negativity is based on resentment, and the lower wages Mexican workers get in Mexico. I have never been to Mexico, but based on the fact that many U.S. companies outsource to Mexico and also the workers come here and accept $6-7/hr in a job that would normally pay $9/hr leads me to this conclusion. People think, "If they get less for their work, they must do a shoddy job". Of course, the world economy can't support everyone living to U.S. standards of living (which is partly why everyone doesn't). It's sad that in my hick town, at least, they have to accept lower wages to have a chance (and according to Ohio laws, there is nothing to prevent this...a company can pay whatever they want and terminate you without a reason). So there is also resentment because this undermines the U.S. worker's ability to get the higher wages. It's not the immigrant's fault, though. It is the companies that undermine wages. Most people aren't smart enough to realize this or want an easier scapegoat than the suit that writes their checks. Things need to even out from country to country, and also the gap between upper and lower levels in corporations, but no one wants to take the cut to make this happen. I do admit that my initial thought was that the quality of the Mexican engine would be lesser, but it seems I was wrong. A good point was made that Nissan standards are Nissan standards anywhere (and those standards are rather high). It's too bad the DOHC only came in the '98 Trucks, though. Unless I'm mistaken?

[pr240sx]

I always though that 240 where built on Elizabeth NJ Nissan plant with parts shipped from Japan.I heard that quite few years ago when the 240 mailing list was at is fullest.

[420sxse]

According to the VIN, my 92 coupe was assembled in Kyoto. The FSM lists no other codes for plants.Not Kyoto...I have Rurouni Kenshin on the brain...Kyushu
Modified by 420sxse at 1:31 PM 3/8/2006

[SilGuy]

The quality products Japan makes is defined through their manufacturing processes they adapted from an AMERICAN many years ago. Kinda sad huh?? So it's not a matter of what type of people that makes your nissan engines...mexicans, asians, whites...etc. It's what the company went through to make them. Sure...everyone can make a quality product, but the reason Japan is more advanced than the rest of the world and they're product seems to have better quality and is always better than the same product made from other companies is because the processes/techniques they went through are advanced and refined than others. Obviously, Japan has bad quality products in the lower end too, but the majority of the population is superior. This also has to do with the company's internal relationships, and the Japanese are said to be very openminded...meaning..they will listen....i.e. the upper management doesn't look down on production workers and will always take ANY opinion into consideration. This isn't true for most places, especially Americans. Anyone who's ever had a job will know that there's always a d!ck that thinks he's a badass cuz he's been there longer or your manager bishez at you and make you lick his balls. This is where the quality companies shine. Their relationship among their coworkers are equallly great and they work with each other well....

[morodo_s13]

True that. I still prefer a Jap engine.

and that is why we think your a stupid human being