KA-T turbocharger feedbacks needed

[bbandit]

Hi all,I dont post much on this forum but I read a lot of stuff on this forum, especially this section. However, I need some specific feedbacks since I cant find any good feedbacks that will satisfy my need in search.

I am going KA-T soon.I already have my ecu sent to JWTmy setup will be similar to most of youJWT ecu, 370cc, 255 walbro fuel pump, cobra maf, FMICnow the thing is, I need some feedbacks about the turbos you guys used.

Well first of all, my car has and will see a LOT of autocross and drift events (drag racing maybe once every semester).I like "responsiveness/quick spooling" (I hate too much boost lag) and I dont plan on running above 10psi because i dont plan on doing internals anytime soon. I am also not aiming for crazy HP, I'll be happy with ~240RWHP. The car handles great right now and it is capable to compete with SR powered 240. I need this extra boost to give the KA a little push on some straights. (our autocross course can go up to 2 miles in distance since our club has the luxury of using an abandoned landing strip)

so of i went searching.14b was my first pick.. but then I think its too small.

Now Im debating over a couple of theseT3 super 60, .48 turbine A/R (im afraid the small turbine will heat up pretty quick at autocrosses)T3 super 60, .63 turbine A/RT3/T04E, .63 turbine A/R

I will be glad and thankful if you can give me any feedback on these turbos (if you are using one of these). (ex: how quick it spools, how much boost you're running, what type of motorsport recommended for that specific turbo application, etc etc)

Thank you so much guys

Yuda

PS. I am sorry if this has been asked/discussed before.. if so, mods feel free to delete it

[fiznat]

are you looking for real world experiences, or computations on which turbos should be best --or both?

as far as the computations, Nathan and I calculated the KAs flow rates at various pressures and plotted them on a few compressor maps: that should prove useful at least to narrow things down. Beyond that, even I would like to hear some personal stories/info about particular turbos.

Here's the thread:

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....49195

[bbandit]

yea i read that thread thoroughly when you gave me the link over aim a couple of days ago.good info man, thanks!from on paper calculation, i know the T04E 60 trim gives the best efficiency. but i also need real world experience feedback...especially autoX related

[3rD GeAr]

i have the t3/t04e 60 trim .82a/r on my sohc kat. and i have full boost of 10psi at or around 3k maybe a little lower. for autocross i would recommend a .48 or .63a/r giving up some top end but it will help for autocross.

[fastpace]

I guess while we are on the subject on picking the best turbo for the ka while the man purpose is daily driving and autox.

What do yall think about this turbo: THIS

[j-z]

if youre only shooting for 240 whp im gonna suggest a .48 a/r t3/t4e. you shoud have really quick spool with that thing. ive used a .48 a/r on a 2.3 liter motor and it spooled really nice. it would be perfect for auto-x.

[:: orion ::]

T3 Super 60, .63 A/R...

If you ever drove a KA-T with a Z31 turbo, you'd know why...

Spool to 8-10psi by 2700-2800 or lower, very smooth, LOADS of torque, etc...

I run a T3/T04E, 57 trim, .63 A/R, Stage III wheel - Spools 8psi by 3200, but comes on like a boot kick to the head. The T3 KA-Ts I've driven come on smooth, pull like mad, and really don't give up too much top end compared to my setup.

.48 is too small for a 2.4 liter, scratch that idea.

And I auto-x A LOT...If the car was built for SM, I would've used a smaller turbo...but for open track events, I like the T04E compressor for better efficiency.

Later - Brian

[bbandit]

aahhh thank you so much for the info Brian.that helped lighten my heavy head I'll look into that T3 super 60, .63 A/R

if anyone still has any feedbacks.. feel free to reply

[02_silver_wagon]

I'm curious as to why orion you chose a 57 trim and 3rd gear you chose a 60 trim. I thought the 50 trim was the most efficient. I guess I don't get why you would not get the 50 trim espcecially since your full spool is on the wrong side of the surge line.

[erich]

I have a T3 60 trim .63A/R with the ball bearing center section from Turbonetics. It will spool to 10psi by 3000rpm, but it doesnt really matter. The KA engine (with the JWT retune that I have) doesn't make much torque untill 3500rpm or so. So it doesn't really matter if the turbo spools before that. I had the same desires as you have and I am going to upgrade the compressor to a T04E this spring (once I get of my *** and pull the turbo). If you are staying with 370cc/min injectors there wasn't any reason to go with the Cobra MAF, the stock MAF flows air to what 370cc/min injectors can supply fuel. At least you're one step closer to 50lb/hr injectors.I have done some autocrossing and found that more than 6psi was too much. I wasn't runnning R compound tires so if you are then some more boost might be usefull.

[fastpace]

Oh yeah I have a question about my setup. Bbandit and I setups are very similiar, but I have 50lb injectors, cobra mafs, and jwt ecu. Do you think a T3 would be useful with my fuel setup(wondering if it is worth it if I decide if I wanted to run more boost then 10psi)?

[C-Kwik]

Orion, what A/R are you using on your compressor?

fastpace, if you are perhaps looking to upgrade in the future for more boost, I would recommend you go with a larger compressor section. Just about any T04E compressor will work well with the KA. The T04E-50 appears to be the best match in terms of where the peak efficiency island is and how well it does this over a wide range of moderate to high boost levels.

bbandit, the T04E-60 is a good turbo. Frankly any turbo that keeps an engine's power band in the 70% efficiency range in the boost you are running is a pretty good match. But do consider the 60 trim only peaks at 76% and from my rough calculations, by redline, it will be at about 73 or 74% efficiency. The 50 Trim peaks at 78% and at redline will still be at 76% at almost any boost level you can pull on a KA. The 78% efficincy island is large compared to most turbos. Most turbos have a shorter, narrower peak island by comparison. And the 76% efficiency island on it is huge by any turbo standards. The only streght the 60 has over the 50 is probably the turbine shaft speed. But it's marginal. Realistically, so is the efficiency, but if you have a choice, I'd go with the 50 Trim. Not to mention, those who want upgradability might want the 50 trim just for the ability to acually hit higher boost levels. The 60 trim would be off the map at about 1.9 bar. The 50 trim's map goes to almost 2.5 bar with that large 76% island peaking at about 2.4 bar. I can never say enough about the 50 trim. As far as the turbine, I'd hardly worry about the turbine posing any heat problems at an autocross. The courses are short and there are few, if any, straights that are long enough where you can sustain that much pressure and heat. turbos frankly don't make much of a difference at an autocross unless they become a restriction to the engine's breathing. Any turbo matched well enough to respond well in the powerband should fair well. There would be a few occassions where a low speed corner may cause you to drop out of the power band or force you to use 1st(cringe) but if you autocross with a turbo, you'll either just be running in practice sessions or some kind of open class. I'd make sure the car handles well enough so that you can maintain the speed just fine. You'ld have very little need to comply to any rules in an open class or practice session.

Interesting sidenote I noticed today. While the 50 Trim is in the Turbonetics catalog, I don't see it in my Garrett Catalog. The outer diameter of the 50 trim is .005" larger than other T04E compressors. I must wonder if this is a wheel that is exclusive to Turbonetics. If it is, that would explain why it's not seen very much.

[Nathan]

My 50 trim is a Garrett...I dunno why its not in the catalog though, weird stuff.

[:: orion ::]

02_silver_wagon -

I chose the 57 b/c I was in a hurry (for no reason) and they had the 57 in stock, and the 50 was a wait. Stupid, stupid, stupid... [/homerism]

Should've waited for the 50...

And Chano -

I have the standard Garrett TA34, .60 A/R compressor, 57 trim, 270* bearing, .63 A/R turbine, Stage III wheel. Cheapturbo.com, $550...

And again, if I ever build another KA, it'll be for in town and auto-x use, and with an internal wastegate...ala T3 Super 60, .63 A/R. I love my big turbo, but for auto-x, I'd like something quicker spooling.

Later - Brian

[bbandit]

great stuff guys...but one more thing...

water cooled or not?if water cooled, where should it be connected to? heater lines?

[MarkEmark]

02_silver_wagon -

I chose the 57 b/c I was in a hurry (for no reason) and they had the 57 in stock, and the 50 was a wait. Stupid, stupid, stupid... [/homerism]

Should've waited for the 50...

And Chano -

I have the standard Garrett TA34, .60 A/R compressor, 57 trim, 270* bearing, .63 A/R turbine, Stage III wheel. Cheapturbo.com, $550...

And again, if I ever build another KA, it'll be for in town and auto-x use, and with an internal wastegate...ala T3 Super 60, .63 A/R. I love my big turbo, but for auto-x, I'd like something quicker spooling.

Later - Brian

I'd stay away from all super 60's, just from experience. Erich said in a previous post, IIRC, that he was only making 225 whp @ 11 psi with a T3 super 60 (and that's WITH the bigger .63 a/r turbine, as opposed to the .48 a/r turbine that mine has). From what I hear on these forums, the T3 super 60's compressor is just too small to flow a lot of air up top--as I'm finding out with boost drop off from 5k-redline (I lose about 3 psi). But if you can tolerate the boost dropoff and are going to be using it mainly for autox, the T3 super 60 is an INCREDIBLY responsive turbo--very little lag, great throttle response with it. Almost makes up for its lack of top end.

If I could do it again (and I very well may), I'm going to get an internally wastegated T3/T04E turbo, .48 a/r turbine, .60 compressor, 50 trim wheel. The smaller turbine a/r should help keep the good throttle response, and the bigger compressor should be able to flow leagues better than the standard T3 super 60's compressor.

The turbo that fastpace posted looks very similar to what I would like to get, if I do indeed upgrade.

[C-Kwik]

And Chano -

I have the standard Garrett TA34, .60 A/R compressor, 57 trim, 270* bearing, .63 A/R turbine, Stage III wheel. Cheapturbo.com, $550...

Later - Brian

OK..I was just curious if it might have been the A/R on your compressor that might be causing the kick in the pants feeling as boost comes on. 0.60 A/R should be reasonable though.

[bigE]

We just picked up an R33 GTR stock turbo, the t25/t3 hybrid turbo, with .48 A/R, we're going to pop it on this week just to what it will do, should have great throttle repsonse, almost too much in the rain, but it will probably drop off too early, but it will be great for autox.

Eric

[MarkEmark]

While we're at it, how would a T3/T04E with a .50 a/r compressor and 57 trim wheel compare to the T3/T04E with a .60 a/r compressor and 50 trim wheel?

What about the T3/T04E with a .60 a/r compressor and 50 trim wheel vs. a T3/T04B with a .60 a/r compressor? What exactly is the difference between the "E" and "B" designations anyway?

Because I'm talkin to a guy who sells remanufactured turbos and a T3/T04E 57 trim, .50 a/r compressor goes for $395, and a T3/T04B with a .60 a/r compressor (dont know the trim) goes for $360. Seems like a decent price.

[erich]

I don't have a Super 60, just a regular T3 60 trim, but there isn't enough difference in the maximum flow rates to care.

[:: orion ::]

225rwhp is low for 11psi, even a T3...that's a bad example.

I got killed by a guy with a Z31 T3 on a KA...him at 9psi, me at 8psi. His flow seemed no worse than mine as he pulled a car length, from a 20mph roll...

Only significant difference was him with stock ECU and AFC, I was running JWT.

None-the-less...the same T3 car as above pulls like mad to redline, holds 10psi on occasion, no problem.

The first KA-T I built also ran a T3...an old, used, not rebuilt one off a friends 300ZX...and it pulled like mad as well, all the way to redline at 8psi - Rock steady.

Somethings up with yours...remeber, Z31 guys ROUTINELY run 1bar on their 3 liter motors with stock T3s and make great power, with no boost dropoff.

I think it's the best application if you're looking for a turbo that would be OEM-like...if Nissan built the KA in a turbo variety, I'd bet they'd have used a T3. Like 1.8T VWs, or even SRs....spools real quick, make great torque.

Later - Brian

[MarkEmark]

Yah, I just can't figure out for the life of me what it is. It's not the exhaust, that's a full 2.5" mandrel bent all the way back, no cat. It may very well be the mbc, which I swapped out for the JoeP MBC that everyone lauds...which made everything worse.

That's why i wanted to swap out the wastegate actuator/rod for Lemheads which supposedly goes to 10 psi.

Would restrictive "intercooler" piping cause boost drop off? Currently mine's only 2", but goes straight to the TB where alc is injected (no intercooler yet, but soon).

So I talked to the guy from ebay, his name is Down2turbo, if anyone wants to get a pretty good deal--all the turbos are remanufactured units.

$360 for a T3/T04B, .48 a/r turbine, internally wastegated, .60 a/r compressor, 54 trim wheel

$395 for a T3/T04E, .48 a/r turbine, internally wastegated, .50 a/r compressor, 57 trim wheel.

Now for a question on topic:

How would the two aforementioned turbos measure up to a T3/T04E with the same turbine but with a 50 trim wheel and a .60 a/r compressor?

[MarkEmark]

I don't want to start a new thread so I'm bumping this one to see if my question gets answered

$360 for a T3/T04B, .48 a/r turbine, internally wastegated, .60 a/r compressor, 54 trim wheel

$395 for a T3/T04E, .48 a/r turbine, internally wastegated, .50 a/r compressor, 57 trim wheel.

Now for a question on topic:

How would the two aforementioned turbos measure up to a T3/T04E with a .48 a/r turbine but with a 50 trim wheel and a .60 a/r compressor?

Would the 57 trim wheel but lower .50 a/r of the $395 T3/T04E act similar to a T3/T04E with a lower trim wheel (50) but higher a/r compressor (.60?)

The $360 T3/T04B seems very similar to the T04E that everyone recommends ecept that it has a 54 trim wheel instead of a 50 trim wheel...how much differently would the T04B turbo act compared to the T04E everyone recommends?

[#RealRiceGSR#]

Please update your e-mail information in the control panel, your e-mail is invalid.

[TrunkMonkey]

How would the two aforementioned turbos measure up to a T3/T04E with a .48 a/r turbine but with a 50 trim wheel and a .60 a/r compressor?

Would the 57 trim wheel but lower .50 a/r of the $395 T3/T04E act similar to a T3/T04E with a lower trim wheel (50) but higher a/r compressor (.60?)

if you compare the 50 and 54 trim compressor maps, you'll find that the 54 is like the 50's little brother. up until about 15psi the two are alike. the 50 trim still has the edge when it comes to covering a broader efficiency range, but if you plan on staying under 15psi, the 54 trim with any size t3 turbine is a very good choice.

the 57 trim just sucks.

-demetrius

[MarkEmark]

Hmm, the T3/T04B then is looking like a very nice alternative--I'd probably only lose $60 upgrading to this turbo.

I know it's pretty much speculation, but does anyone know how the lag of the T3/T04B (.48 hot, .60 cold, 54 trim wheel) would compare to the T3 super 60 (.48 hot, .60 cold)? I have looked but cannot find compressor maps for the aforementioned t3/t04b, and I'm wondering how much physically larger the compressor wheel/housing is, because I know the turbine housing/wheel should be identical to the t3 super 60. I just don't wanna invest in a turbo that's going to be a lag monster, because my car is my daily driver and I do love the torque down low, I just hate the drop-off up top.

[red240ne]

02_silver_wagon -

I chose the 57 b/c I was in a hurry (for no reason) and they had the 57 in stock, and the 50 was a wait. Stupid, stupid, stupid... [/homerism]

I just did the same thing, LOL. Maybe this is some kind of trick they're playing on us to get rid of the 57 trims. Oh well, it doesn't matter to me that much. Ken at cheapturbos.com was a nice guy, seemed smart. He convinced me to buy a 57, oh well...

curt