KA-T Plan (So Far)

Post by **matt0941** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

I am new to this so please dont laugh.

Car: 1998 240SX SE. 5-Spd, 23k miles.

Goals: -250-280rwhp (wouldn't mind if it came out larger) -Safety (concern for the engine, not myself) -Stock Internals

Restrictions: -Money is NOT one of them, although I would like to keep as much of it as I can. I am just saying this is not a 'junkyard' turbo project in any way -Mechanical skills. I have not done much turbo work (any) in the past, therefore I plan on taking this to a reputable shop for installation.

Parts List: -Turbonetics T3/T04E Hybrid Turbo .63 A/R - 50 trim - Stage III wheel (~$200-500) -Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump ($100) -Z32 MAF (~$80) -APEXi N1 Cat-Back Exhaust System ($430) -Greddy E-Manage Piggyback System (~$300) -Greddy Profec E-01 (~$500) -Rev Hard Manifold (~$500) -50lb Injectors (?) -FMIC(?) -IC Piping (?) -Downpipe (?)

Confusion On: -Fuel Pressure Regulators. I am not sure if I should buy an aftermarket one, or if the fuel delivery will be fine. -JWT ECU. Even though I used to think that one was needed, I am now doubting this with the use of a Z32 MAF and Piggyback system. -Injectors. Sizing for my application is not that hard to figure out (which equations I have still not calculated), but whether I should select top-feed or side-feed (hence the fuel pressure regulator/fuel rail conerns) I do not know.

Considering: -ARP Head Stud Kit ($165). I have heard that it is a very good idea, and have heard that it is completely unnecessary.

Any additions, corrections, or information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

P.S. I will edit in changes as they come.

-Matt

Post by **midnight brother** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

ARP Head Stud Kit isn't a necessity but it's added insurance to your engine.

Post by **Flamereka** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

you meantioned 50lb injectors, I think you need a topfeed rail correct? Also a wastegate since ur using revhard.

Also about the greddy profec E-01, THis is my opinion of course: I think that it will be too awkward in your car cause of the screen unless you are going to mount it flush somewhere. I have a nice 6.4 inch lcd screen and it is going to be a ***** to mount where I want it. I want to remove the radio and din slot and make the opening just the screen. Doing this cause I am probably going to get a PERFECT POWER SMT-6 : http://www.perfectpower.com/products/smt6.aspTHis thing has mega option and the softeware for it look very very good, just check out the screen shots of the windows based software. I'll just get a mini pentium computer and wire it behind it and be able to tune the car while in it. I know you say why not a laptop but this is neater

I kinda trailed off there but ok. I'm about in the same boat as you. New to turbo starting off small I got a good size T3 and am starting to learn more about housing's and a/r's.

So far this is what I have:Custom log style manifoldT3 Turbo w/ internal wastegate ( Also all oil lines and fittings ) Starion FMICMitsubushi Blowoff valve370cc injectors12:1 FMU2.5" downpipe which I need to have weld to fit3" stainless exhaust system'98 differential with Vlsd ( royale purple in it soon)Cone airfilter

What I need to get:T3 turbo gaskets $ 15 (ebay)Walboro 255 fuel pump $ 89 (ebay)Custom Intercooler piping $ under 100 I hope3" high flow cat $ 40 (ebay)

The turbo has one of the manual boost adjusters which I hate, and will be getting a electronic boost controller. Probably something similar to greddy profec b, or a hks evc, something with digital readout and high, low buttons.

From WDracing's advice I think in the future or a few weeks after I get the turbo on the car I will go with a SMC alcohol injection system, because thus far from my readings I haven't heard a bad thing about it.

Another thing to look into is breaks. With that extra power, you need extra stopping. I have new bremo slotted and cross dimpled rotors and axxis pads on the front. And I have to say it was the worst waste of money I have done so far. I should have gone with the 300zx brakes. They feel a bit tighter then stocks but the fade and feeling of the brakes are terrible. My previous car was a '94 delsol and the brakes on it were perfect, I could feel the car actually stopping and never had the feeling of " OHH FU(K I HOPE I CAN STOP"

I only want like 250-300 hp too. I love watch drifting and have loved it for the past 3 years. Soon I hope that I will have a car worthy and capapble of providing me with a good base to learn from.

Good luck matt

Post by **encasemyheart** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

-Turbonetics T3/T04E Hybrid Turbo .63 A/R - 50 trim - Stage III wheel (~$200-500)

Where are ypu getting this for $200-500?

Post by **C-Kwik** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

matt0941 wrote:Confusion On: -Fuel Pressure Regulators. I am not sure if I should buy an aftermarket one, or if the fuel delivery will be fine. -JWT ECU. Even though I used to think that one was needed, I am now doubting this with the use of a Z32 MAF and Piggyback system. -Injectors. Sizing for my application is not that hard to figure out (which equations I have still not calculated), but whether I should select top-feed or side-feed (hence the fuel pressure regulator/fuel rail conerns) I do not know.

Considering: -ARP Head Stud Kit ($165). I have heard that it is a very good idea, and have heard that it is completely unnecessary.

If you get top feed injectors, you will need to get a different fuel rail. I'm not sure if you can still use the stock fuel pressure regulator with the available aftermarket fuel rails.

As far as a JWT ECU, you won't necessarily need one, but E-Manage is not exactly plug & play. Unless you plan to figure how to tune it and perhaps put it on a dyno, a JWT would be a better option. Of course, you can always do both as well.

Personally, I'd prefer to stick to a sidefeed only because they have some that the stock plug fits into. You shouldn't need to swap the pressure regulator just for the sake of a turbo.

As far as head studs, I'd prefer to leave well enough alone. The stick head bolts should hold the power you are looking for just fine. Chances are your headgasket will fail before the head bolts do. And it will likely be due to detonation. If you already had the head off the motor, then I'd say go for it, but no reason to spend money on something that isn't broke and shouldn't fail unless you do something wrong.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

Flamereka wrote:370cc injectors12:1 FMU

I only want like 250-300 hp too.

The 370's max out around 260 RWHP. With a 12:1 FMU, you'll be running WAY rich under boost. While you can run an FMU along with larger injectors, you should only need a low ratio FMU(maybe 3:1 or 4:1?) to keep up since you're goal is only 250 to 300 HP anyways. If it were me, I'd just get larger injectors to begin with and forget about the FMU. FMU's are typically used as a cheap alternative to upgrading the stock fuel system. If you are already upgrading, might as well plan ahead now. S15 480cc injectors would probably suit your power goals just fine and bolt right into the stock rail.

Post by **AceInhole** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

why not just get an NSport or FMax kit?

Post by **AceInhole** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

C-Kwik wrote:The 370's max out around 260 RWHP.

JWT should be able to do a 4bar fuel program for 370's. They've done so for turbocharged SE-R's. That would get him just about the equivolent of 430cc injectors. It'd be cheaper than trying to find S15 injectors, and at least he wouldn't need a custom fuel rail (although he would need a new FPR, which may be a good idea going to the Walbro pump).

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

AceInhole wrote:why not just get an NSport or FMax kit?

because thats boring

Post by **matt0941** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

AceInhole wrote:why not just get an NSport or FMax kit?

$$$

AceInhole wrote:It'd be cheaper than trying to find S15 injectors, and at least he wouldn't need a custom fuel rail

Would stock S15 injectors need a custom fuel rail or aftermarket fuel pressure regulator?

Also: I have heard that many people switch to top-feed injectors and upgrade their fuel rail for different injectors because side-feed injectors are extremely expensive. Is this true? If not why do people switch to top-feed?

Thanks alot for the input so far guys.

Post by **Flamereka** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

I got the FMU cause it came with the turbo. I was planning on using the perfectpower so I wouldn't need the FMU since I coudl then use the 370cc injectors.

What is JWT 4 bar program? They have to modify the injectors somehow correct? If so I shoudl be able to do it too.

Quote »S15 480cc injectors would probably suit your power goals just fine and bolt right into the stock rail.[/quote]

Those are the stock S15 injectors? I thought they were also 370cc? I have seen them for $150 just thought they were 370cc? Let me know if you are positive they are 480cc .also how much rwhp are they good up to.

Post by **htxS14** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

i would go with route on the em.....try out the new dfi...

Post by **C-Kwik** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

AceInhole wrote:JWT should be able to do a 4bar fuel program for 370's. They've done so for turbocharged SE-R's. That would get him just about the equivolent of 430cc injectors. It'd be cheaper than trying to find S15 injectors, and at least he wouldn't need a custom fuel rail (although he would need a new FPR, which may be a good idea going to the Walbro pump).

I've never heard of JWT doing something like this, but I imagine it wouldn't be hard for them to figure out. I assume you are referring to having JWT program the fuel map based on a higher base fuel pressure.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

matt0941 wrote:$$$

Would stock S15 injectors need a custom fuel rail or aftermarket fuel pressure regulator?

Also: I have heard that many people switch to top-feed injectors and upgrade their fuel rail for different injectors because side-feed injectors are extremely expensive. Is this true? If not why do people switch to top-feed?

Thanks alot for the input so far guys.

The S15 injectors would be a direct bolt in. Cost is usually the factor. Top feed are much easier to find, and generally cheaper. Overall cost will depend on the cost of the injectors and fuel rail. And I haven't heard of any top feed injectors that you can plug right in with the factory plugs(wires).

Post by **C-Kwik** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

Flamereka wrote:I got the FMU cause it came with the turbo. I was planning on using the perfectpower so I wouldn't need the FMU since I coudl then use the 370cc injectors.

What is JWT 4 bar program? They have to modify the injectors somehow correct? If so I shoudl be able to do it too.

Those are the stock S15 injectors? I thought they were also 370cc? I have seen them for $150 just thought they were 370cc? Let me know if you are positive they are 480cc .also how much rwhp are they good up to.

Ok, you listed both, so I thought you were going to try and use them together....

Stock S15 Silvia Spec R injectors are 480cc. I should have been more specific...

Post by **hannibal** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

So is it safe to run 50 lbs injectors (side feed with stock fuel rail and stock FPR) and the Greddy Emanage without an aftermarket FRP or a ECU retune?

This seems like what Matt was planning to do...

Post by **matt0941** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

Yea you are right that is what I plan on doing, cost is just a factor. But to clarify there are two options:

1) Purchase Side Feed Injectors. Ones like the Stock Silvia Spec R 480CC injectors.

2)Purchase Top Feed Injectors. Purchase Top Feed Fuel Rail. Purchase aftermarket top-feed wires.

Correct?

Post by **hannibal** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

C-Kwik wrote:If you get top feed injectors, you will need to get a different fuel rail. I'm not sure if you can still use the stock fuel pressure regulator with the available aftermarket fuel rails.

Dont forget you might need a new FPR with the top feed setup.

But you asked the key question: Why go with top feed injectors if you have to buy all these other items to make em work? Everyone says the side feeds are SO expensive. Wouldn't a top feed setup with injectors, wires, fuel rail, and FPR cost more than just buying a set of side feed injectors?

Post by **Kinesthesia** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

Links to top feed fuel rails: (which I intend to use, one or the other)

http://www.jgycustoms.com/fuelrails.htm

http://www.unstable-hybrids.com/UHProducts.htm

Post by **d240t2** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

You don't need a new FPR with our rail...you can use the stock one (like I am doing).

Yes, the cost of top feed injectors and a fuel rail and injector connectors (from us) is still significantly cheaper than drop in side feed injectors...plus you don't have to worry about the pains that many people have had pushing out the stock side feed injectors and getting the new ones in, without breaking them. On top of that...you get a fuel rail that looks a lot nicer.

DennisunStable Hybrids

Post by **silviaNE** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

At that horespower goal i woulnt go with a whole new injector/fuel rail setup. Get some spec r injectors and dont worry about the rest. You will save time and money in the future. Wher are you going to get a turbonetics turbo for 200-500 dollars? If you geting a new one look at $700 and up.

Post by **white98s14** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

You might want to look at the garrett turbo's. Most S14 have had fitment issues using the revhard and Turbonetics T3/T4 turbos. For some reason their turbine housings are somewhat larger than the Garrett units.(but there are also many other factors involved with fitment issues) Unless you go straight T4 with an on-centre turbine housing, like someone stated above.

Up here a new Garrett T3/T4 goes for about $600. You can also get one off E-bay for that much.

I am also in the Buying and Choosing stage of my KAT.

I am custom building my manifold, so that I don't run in to any fitment problems.

Post by **matt0941** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

Switching turbos just because of slight fitment issues would (to me) seem like the actions of a quickly dettered (sp?) person. I still intend to go with a T3/T4.

Post by **sil80drifter** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

Speaking of injectors, I can get some 460cc for 100 bucks if anyone is interested. They are used RX-7 injectors, my friend is selling them, good used condition. Also 550cc from a Turbo II RX-7, which are 550cc, same price. They are all top feed, and drop right into the KA-E (not DE) fuel rail, or a normal top feed fuel rail. Depending on the year, they are either high impedance, or low impedance, you have to test them with a multimeter, and just wire in a resistor, which is very easy (seriously, figure out what impedance stock injectors are, lets say 20 ohms, and lets say the rx-7 ones are 16 ohms, so you solder in a 4 ohm resistor into each injector connector (or the wire), and voila).

Anyone think of this is as a decent idea for injector replacement?

Also:this is a t04b, for under 500.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...62126

sil80

Post by **white98s14** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

matt0941 wrote:Switching turbos just because of slight fitment issues would (to me) seem like the actions of a quickly dettered (sp?) person. I still intend to go with a T3/T4.

Whatever bursts your bubble....It was just FYI smart ***.

I never said to switch turbos, read it again.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

d240t2 wrote:plus you don't have to worry about the pains that many people have had pushing out the stock side feed injectors and getting the new ones in, without breaking them.

What's strange is I've heard this comment so many times since I dropped 370's in mine, and I had no knowledge that there was an issue like this. But I had no problems with mine. It was certainly tight, but nothing a twist of a flathead screwdriver underneath the electrical plug wouldn't solve...

Post by **silviaNE** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

ahhh................ Turbonetic turbos are based on garrett design. There should be no fitment issues at all. This post gets dumber and dumber.

Post by **d240t2** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

If RX7 injectors drop into a stock SOHC KA fuel rail, then they won't work with a top-feed fuel rail designed for domestic style injectors. Don't get me wrong...they'll drop right in, with a huge gap for fuel to spray out all around, since the holes need to be a couple of millimeters larger for the domestic injectors.

And the difference suggested in the FA thread (by me) wasn't turbonetics turbine housing castings vs. garret turbine housing castings...it was new housings, with a thick flange, vs. old housings on a turbo that had been rebuilt and used more than once, which have thinner flanges due to resurfacing. I noticed that the rebuilt turbo I had just purchased had a much thinner flange than the new turbonetics housing I got.

But really, the solution is to get a manifold that fits...and there are numerous on the market. Why some T3s fit with some RevHard manifolds on some cars...there are a lot of different factors at play...too numerous to evaluate and predetermine fit.

On the injectors...I haven't had problems, and many people I know haven't had problems...but many people have. It isn't really a reason to go to a top-feed fuel rail...more like reason 5 on the long list of why (IMO) top feed fuel rails w/ domestic injectors are better than aftermarket side feed 550cc or larger injectors (cheaper, nicer looking, cheaper replacement injectors, etc.)

Dennis

Post by **sil80drifter** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:10 pm

Oh yeah, I know, the FC injectors will not fit the KA-DE. But custom fuel rails are pretty cheap, and that's the way I'm going when I'll need to upgrade to 550cc or larger, which will not fit the stock SOHC rail anymore. Also, remanufactured and/or used RX-7 injectors are very cheap, and are a good substitute. I'm not trying to sell them or anything, just if anyone thinks they want to go that way, I'll be able to get them.

sil80

KA-T Plan (So Far)

KA-T Plan (So Far)

Re: KA-T Plan (So Far)

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