KA-T or CA18DET?

Post by **SingleCamSam** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Not to mention the fact that to make big power with the CA you're going to have to buy pretty much everything you'd have to buy to turbo the KA. Intercooler, turbo upgrade, etc. etc. And then there's the cost of the engine itself.

Quote »FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GO KA-T!!!![/quote]

Post by **float_6969** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Ok, apparently you're not real familiar w/the CA. I know this because of your statement which read, and I quote, "...japanese turbo motor that's hard to source parts for...". 1988 Nissan Pulsar SE. Look it up. It's got a CA18DE. Differences are as follows;Non-turbono crank girdleno piston oil squirtersdifferent pistonsThats about it. Pretty much anything you can get from a parts store, I can get from a parts store, so there goes that argument. As far as age is concerned they are similar so thats a null point also. Once again, unless you have PERSONALLY owned your vehicle since it was new, you don't know the history of your car either so that isn't a valid argument either. Monetarily, there is really only about $500 difference between the starting price of the two. Now I will give you the fact that STARTING OUT the KA-T has more HP. The problem is, once you've turbocharged it, you're gonna have to cough up some SERIOUS dough to get it to handle much more than approx. 7psi of boost. As for the question of "if is should blow", ask around and see how many people you find w/blown up CA's. I think that question answers itself...

Post by **Nismo1182** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Yup yup yup, good work float.

It all comes down to preferance. I like KA-T's and CA's. I choose the CA because I wanted to try that out first. Who knows what my next project will be :icesangel

Post by **float_6969** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

I'm not trying to get mean or anything, I just don't think the KA-T is the end-all when it comes to wanting more power. I think that it has it's applications, and withing those ranges, it's a great option.

Post by **mulletmrt** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

float_6969 wrote:I'm not trying to get mean or anything, I just don't think the KA-T is the end-all when it comes to wanting more power. I think that it has it's applications, and withing those ranges, it's a great option.

amen.

Post by **aleph1** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Whatever. You guys can buy into this whole JDM conspiracy. Spending 1400+ on some random junkyard CA, which you will most likely end up rebuilding is not my idea of a cost effective setup, let alone IT WILL BE EASIER TO EXTRACT POWER FROM A KA-T. OOOO 310hp on an CA with a big turbo and SDS? What a joke, 310 can be much easily had on a fairly normal KAT setup running about 12-14psi. No standealones needed. And the turbo in the kit most likely is still efficient. There is a member here that runs 350whp on a STOCK BOTTOM END KA (for 2 years now IIRC)...

JDM ENGINES= MOSTLY HYPE AND WASTE OF MONEY. Id only recommend them if it came in your car.

As for the number of blown CAs, not many...but think about this smart guy-How many people HAVE CAs (not counting foreign countries)? Ya I thought so. Of course the mythical "KA wasnt built for turbo" and "KAT blows all the time"...any new cards? Cuz these are way old and out of date my friend. They blew a decent amount when the KAT idea was still new, but its very established now and its "baseline" parts/settings and such are just as reliable as stock.

Personally the KAT IS the end all power engine to me, cuz it came stock here. Its cheaper, makes more power (eg per psi, higher cc), and massive part availability (ANY PART). So in conclusion, tell me one reason that makes wasting the money on a junkyard JDM engine more worth it.

Post by **Onizuka** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Importing motors sucks, i got mad skill an can make a turbo kit for $1.25 and its way better than any JDM peice of shiat. I dont want anybody to do anything different, we should all do the same thing.

Post by **Onizuka** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

aleph1 wrote:Personally the KAT IS the end all power engine to me, cuz it came stock here. Its cheaper, makes more power (eg per psi, higher cc), and massive part availability (ANY PART). So in conclusion, tell me one reason that makes wasting the money on a junkyard JDM engine more worth it.

Having fun

my SR didnt come from a junkyard

Post by **Nismo1182** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Hey there smart guy, I just ordered OEM parts for my CA from guess what? The Nissan dealership near my house. Any OEM part you can get for your KA I can get from the same place, dealership, autozone, NAPA, discount auto, pep boys, whatever.

Thats one the main reasons I got my CA. Who cares if the engine came in the car or not. Lets all run around with KA's and nothing else :rolleyes

Post by **aleph1** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

The point of "trying to be different" is moot. Pure irrelevance. Just the fact of having a different engine is no reason to swap. Power is power, in my mind, the person that got there cheaper (and with reasonable reliability) is the real "winner" Oh BTW Jspec, ya you are so original and totally different with your SR swap :rolleyes

I said ALL (as in any part) parts, including the parts that float listed as not swapable AND aftermarket. GL finding a decent source of CA aftermarket parts lol. Ive been into 240s a long time and was once an SR/CA fan, so Ive looked a lot. I can say for a fact, unless you have some sort of connection, aftermarket CA parts are VERY hard to come by. Not to mention they are pretty much only from japan or europe, so you must take the importing/shipping costs into account as well.

Meanwhile, the KA used to have similar woes with aftermarket parts, but as you can see, the support has grown a lot in the past year and is still growing.

Just keep trying to justify your waste of money JDM motor. I still see no legitimate reason to swap. Im not completely biased towards JDM engines, for instance, the RB26DETT is something I wouldnt mind swapping for (although it is pretty expensive), the shear gain from its design and power potential is much more worth a swap.

Look, the CA can make good power, ive seen it. Like MovingViolation240s old CA19DET made like 350hp. But if you saw how much work was done to it, and took all that and put it on to a KA, I can guaratee you it would WASTE the CA.

Post by **240sxin** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

the only problem i have with going ka-t is that there is no set kit for the 89(at least i cant find one) so rthat means i got to build one. like siad earilier then means i got to get someone to do it for me. so in my mind swaping a motor fromt a front clip is way easyier and less time comsumign them have to wait on parts being made/found and what ever. o and the plae that ill have do this specializes in sr an ca jdm motors. Then carry lmost every after market part for them. there are quite a bit of ca running around here from what they tell me but their most popular is the sr. anyways thats all i had to say.

Post by **240sxin** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

i thought this was cool and said alot.http://www.trinituner.com/opin....htmlcheck it outpoints out the good and bad qualities of both sr and ca

Post by **nissanrcer240** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

cosmo wrote:But if cost is no object I'd pick CA over ANYTHING. Yes, even the SR(OVER_RATED)

Please explain to me how the SR is overrated? Dont say b/c alot of people have that swap already....

Is it not a reliable, already quick in stock form, full of potential motor? How is it overrated?You know there is a reason why so many people have chosen this swap, for the price, you couldnt really ask for a better base to start a projet IMHO.....Tell me how its overrated.

With the 2 options you listed, I dont think you could go wrong. I guess its all about personal preference. Good luck with whatever you do though, I know engine swaps can be a big headache:( , but well worth it IMO

edit: the info on that link is not very accurate, $5000 for a stock ca18 swap and $8000-$12000 for a sr20 swap???

Quoted from the article:

"all easy to turn up the boost and have at 270+ with no majour mods needed":rolleyes

Post by **240sxin** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

this site is old i know the prices are way high. sry abotu that but what the site says is what i like about it, how both the ca and sr are good and how the ca isnt as bad as some peopel like to believe, agin sry this prices are so aff

Post by **nissanrcer240** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Oh I was just makin fun at the guy who wrote the article, no problem, all you did was post the link. So you decided to go CA? Make sure you post pics when you do the swap and get it done:)

Post by **NeedCAforS13** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

the site is based in Trinidad... I don't think they use american dollars there;)

Sean

Post by **Nathan** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

nissanrcer240 wrote: I know engine swaps can be a big headache:( , but well worth it IMO

So can KA-T's

With that said, I dont think either option is a bad one. I like CA's a lot but I'm building a KA-T right now. The reason is that I could not find a CA locally that I could verify was in good condition, after being burned on one, this was a requirement to me. Even if I got a good condition one though, I would want to tear it down and do a full overhaul to make sure everything was in tip-top shape. This is why I went KA, if I was going to tear apart the engine, I might as well just do it to an easily accessible engine instead of importing a CA. Ultimately to make my target power (300-400) it was less hassle with the KA and about the same price with either motor. Hence, I went with the option that was in my mind less hassle. If I could do it over again, I dont know what I would do...so far my KA-T project is taking entirely too long and I had to wait about 13 weeks just to have the rods made, now the motor is at the machine shop and the total down time will probably be almost 6 months since I commited to going KAT. If I could do it over again at this point, I might just have swapped a stock KA into the car and gotten it running as quickly as possible, I am SICK of this damn project.

Post by **cosmo** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

nissanrcer240 wrote:Please explain to me how the SR is overrated? Dont say b/c alot of people have that swap already....

Is it not a reliable, already quick in stock form, full of potential motor? How is it overrated?You know there is a reason why so many people have chosen this swap, for the price, you couldnt really ask for a better base to start a projet IMHO.....Tell me how its overrated.

Because many people think it is the end-all be-all of engines for 240's.They bash all the other engines cuz they really have no knowledge of anything else, besides the force-fed crap that Ricky Chu says. And many think that cuz others are doing it, then it must be the best so **** everything else. I got so sick of that. They are getting expensive, plus I'm all about the Iron-block of the CA/KA/RB. Plus lets not forget the water pump problem and the over-heating.

The way people talk up the SR20, it's almost as if all other engines are completely inferior.

Never mind that I could have a KA-T with a built bottom end for about the same price of an SR front clip. (maybe less)

Post by **float_6969** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Well I've just had an ipiphany. It is entirely pointless to try and educate others when they have made up their minds and are too closeminded to listen to any other information other than what they believe to be true. I apologize for my effort to try and present a valid case comparing two motors. As I had prefaced all of my arguments, I am the owner of a CA, and my opinion may be a bit biased, but nontheless, I felt that I was being objective and not presenting any false or misleading information. If some of the members of this forum took offence and felt the need to defend their personal preference in motors to the extent of insulting fellow members, then I apologize for my participation in this thread and the apparent trauma I've induced. But in closing I do have this to say; if you the kind of persond that feels the need to demean other members of this board so that a "point" can be made, perhapse we could do without your participation. This thread has ONCE AGAIN, reinforced the reason that I rarely venture from the CA forums. I've been an active member of this forum for a respectable amount of time, and have spent alot of time becoming familiar with our cars, and all of the different aspects relating to them. I'm by no means a NICO god, and don't know everything there is to know, but I spent YEARS researching wich motor would be best FOR MY APPLICATION and it came out that the CA was the way to go for ME. At no point did I ever state or imply that the CA was the answer to everyones application. Only that it was for mine. I will once again, retire to the CA forums and stay there where fellow members are treated with respect and questions are answered with out insults or degrading.

Post by **jdmfreak** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Nicely put.

Post by **Onizuka** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

aleph1 wrote:The point of "trying to be different" is moot. Pure irrelevance. Just the fact of having a different engine is no reason to swap. Power is power, in my mind, the person that got there cheaper (and with reasonable reliability) is the real "winner" Oh BTW Jspec, ya you are so original and totally different with your SR swap :rolleyes

I said ALL (as in any part) parts, including the parts that float listed as not swapable AND aftermarket. GL finding a decent source of CA aftermarket parts lol. Ive been into 240s a long time and was once an SR/CA fan, so Ive looked a lot. I can say for a fact, unless you have some sort of connection, aftermarket CA parts are VERY hard to come by. Not to mention they are pretty much only from japan or europe, so you must take the importing/shipping costs into account as well.

Meanwhile, the KA used to have similar woes with aftermarket parts, but as you can see, the support has grown a lot in the past year and is still growing.

Just keep trying to justify your waste of money JDM motor. I still see no legitimate reason to swap. Im not completely biased towards JDM engines, for instance, the RB26DETT is something I wouldnt mind swapping for (although it is pretty expensive), the shear gain from its design and power potential is much more worth a swap.

Look, the CA can make good power, ive seen it. Like MovingViolation240s old CA19DET made like 350hp. But if you saw how much work was done to it, and took all that and put it on to a KA, I can guaratee you it would WASTE the CA.

How many turbo motors have you built? Where of the side by side records proving one motor better than the other for the same cost?

I really apreciate the derogatory comment, you make NICO a very freindly place "OMFG ALL YOU JDM A-HOLES SUCK *** AND YOU WASTED ALL YOUR MONEY!! J-SPEC, I SEE CARS LIKE YOURS LIKE EVERY MINUTE IM ON THE ROAD, BLAH BLAH BLAH"

"Power is power, in my mind, the person that got there cheaper (and with reasonable reliability) is the real "winner""

SR's have been PROVEN to run very reliably at high horse power on stock internals ($1200+ for forged pistons and rods last time i checked), and tuners have sqeezed 539hp on the stock internals and a cheap non-ballbearing turbo in america, and rumors of 600+ hp in japan, but for the sake of your argument we will just ignore that :rolleyes

I dont need approval from some jerk with a keyboard on the other side of the internet to do something to my car. I find low displacement, forign, rare engines more exotic and exciting than something you can see every time you pop the hood of a 240 (doesnt make it any better, just something I get more personal enjoyment from). I have tremendous respect for people who turbo their 240's regardless of motor choice. I have zero respect for people who think one motor is the end-all of performance motors.

Again, im sorry im such a horrible person for not turboing the high milage KA that came with my car, next time i'll call you up to make sure im not commiting such a hanous crime.

Post by **aleph1** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

If you are refering to me, I did not insult anyone. I think Ive been more than fair regarding your points. Im not "close-minded", as Ive said before, i used to want a CA. In fact, here is my mind making timeline:

SR->CA->KAT->SR->KAT (now)

Ive research a lot on each engine as well. I guess the KAT, fits MY application, but honestly, I dont see where this KAT WOULDNT fit an application. Thats my point. I think the CA is good because its the high revving capabilities and iron block. The SR is the worst of the three, IMHO. Unless someone was building the lightest car possible, in which case, I would say go SR as it is most likely the lightest out of the three...

I am on a limited budget (3K-4K) for my project, and since I want to get the most power for my money I choose to go KAT. I dont see how I could get as much as Im shooting for (250-280whp) with any JDM motor swap. Not to mention I am personally uncomfortable installing some random engine that someone could have **** on for all I know.

I am sorry if I offended anyone, I was simply stating my case in response to the threads question.

Post by **jdmfreak** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Oh **** Jspec I just noticed you were a mod now. When the hell did this happen?

Post by **Onizuka** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

aleph1 wrote:The SR is the worst of the three, IMHO.

Im glad you have formulated an opinion on your own personal experiences after testing all 3 motors yourself. All i know is my KA was reliable stock and my SR is a ton of fun to work on.

Quote »Not to mention I am personally uncomfortable installing some random engine that someone could have **** on for all I know.[/quote]Im pretty uncomfortable buying a 12 year old high milage car with a motor in it that might have been **** on for all i know, but thats something 99% of the people here have had to deal with. Its not that hard to protect yourself, my motor came in perfect condition and perfectly complete from a reliable company with a guarentee. My car came from a guy in his 30's who could have beat the **** out of the motor day in and day out for all i know, with no guarentee.

Quote »I am sorry if I offended anyone[/quote]

you offended me, but i forgive you because we are all here to learn and have fun with our cars

Post by **aleph1** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

J-Spec Tuner wrote:How many turbo motors have you built? Where of the side by side records proving one motor better than the other for the same cost?

I really apreciate the derogatory comment, you make NICO a very freindly place "OMFG ALL YOU JDM A-HOLES SUCK *** AND YOU WASTED ALL YOUR MONEY!! J-SPEC, I SEE CARS LIKE YOURS LIKE EVERY MINUTE IM ON THE ROAD, BLAH BLAH BLAH"

"Power is power, in my mind, the person that got there cheaper (and with reasonable reliability) is the real "winner""

SR's have been PROVEN to run very reliably at high horse power on stock internals ($1200+ for forged pistons and rods last time i checked), and tuners have sqeezed 539hp on the stock internals and a cheap non-ballbearing turbo in america, and rumors of 600+ hp in japan, but for the sake of your argument we will just ignore that :rolleyes

I dont need approval from some jerk with a keyboard on the other side of the internet to do something to my car. I find low displacement, forign, rare engines more exotic and exciting than something you can see every time you pop the hood of a 240 (doesnt make it any better, just something I get more personal enjoyment from). I have tremendous respect for people who turbo their 240's regardless of motor choice. I have zero respect for people who think one motor is the end-all of performance motors.

Again, im sorry im such a horrible person for not turboing the high milage KA that came with my car, next time i'll call you up to make sure im not commiting such a hanous crime.

I believe my comment was just as "derogatory" as your extreme sarcasm. The highest the KAT has gone on stock bottom is 350hp, notice there arent as many around as SR, so less tuning has been done, but I do believe that is one area the SR does hold on to.

Look, I like your car, SR and all, but you made a very hypocritial statement with the whole "everyone do the same thing" deal while you have swapped an SR, which is "the thing to do" nowadays.

Post by **Onizuka** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

I never told anybody they should only get SR's nor did anyone ever tell me to get a SR, i got it on my own accord. Hating on a motor just because it is popularized in a magazine is stupid. "All these magazines I dont like say eating food is good, and I want to be part of the L337 crowd that rebels against whats popular so im not going to eat"

Yes I was being incredibly sarcastic in response to your post at the top of this page that makes crazy claims like "JDM motors= mostly hype and waste of money". Most people dont take to kindly to someone basically calling their new shiny toy a hyped out peice of shiat.

I fanatically disagree with threads of this sort because people always come in saying what ever motor they chose/have is the best. There is no way of testing a argument like this unless a proficient mechanic is willing to put up the money to buy 3 identical 240's, spend the same amount on each with a differnet turbo motor/turbo kit, and build each of them with the same enthusiasm and detail level. I have no experience with KA-T's or CA's, so I dont make an arse of myself by talking about something I really have no place commenting on. I do however own a SR and i have been around several extremely fine examples and am quite comfortable commenting on assembly and costs involved. After I tune it myself I will help new people venturing into the SR crowd in that area as well. And that is what NICO is all about, sharing experience in order to help each other, not haveing 10 page debates on which motor is better that ultimatly go no-where and seperate members otherwise on good terms with eachother.

Post by **aleph1** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

I never said I hate the SR cuz its popular, its just that some people do make their decision based on that and it shouldnt be made that way.

I may not have direct experience with the SR or CA, but there is enough info around because of people who did have experience, so I think its legitimate enough to make my decision based upon that...

lol. very true Jspec. In hindsight, these threads are pointless. Every engine v engine thread does always end up like this and everyone gets all worked up about it. The solution must be to delete these on sight. :pface

BTW- Sorry I said JDM motors are a waste, etc. They are really not, I just got worked up about it. They are both good engines. And considering they are basically plug and play (aka plug and pray), they give good potential and power for how easy it is to put in. Your lil SR is a good engine Jspec :icesangel I did think about that option myself...TWICE. In the end, for me, the KAT was the most efficient considering my goals/needs.

Post by **Nismo1182** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Ive been around all 3 engines mentioned and know enough about them to say its up to the owners preferance. All 3 engines are great choices.

Aleph1, the SR isnt as light as you think

Post by **aleph1** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Nismo1182 wrote:Ive been around all 3 engines mentioned and know enough about them to say its up to the owners preferance. All 3 engines are great choices.

Aleph1, the SR isnt as light as you think

Its not that much lighter, but its the lightest out of all 3....lightest to heaviest: SR, KA, CA

Post by **float_6969** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Aleph, thanks for coming around. I hate fighting, though I do have to correct you on the weight thing. I know for a fact that the KA is the heaviest. I've heard conflicting #'s but the CA and SR are pretty much the same, but from my experience, the CA is just a tad lighter. (I think they were w/in 10lbs).

KA-T or CA18DET?

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