KA-T + 12psi = 298.89rwhp

[:: orion ::]

Hey guys...finally got to dyno my new setup...it been in and running for ~10-11 months, but no dynos as of yet.

Yeasterday I went down the the Brevard Motorsports "Cars for Charity" event in Melbourne (good turnout, BTW, +350 people) and hit the mobile Dynojet 248 for some #s.

I knew the car was close to ~300rwhp, b/c I had run it at the dragstrip months ago and pulled a 13.3 (easy launch) at 110mph...and it weighs ~2800lbs, plus me at 225lbs.

Anyway, at 12psi it did:

298rwhp @ 6700 274rwtq @ 4700

Not very KA like in it's power curve, I attribute that to JWT cams.

Motor is otherwise STOCK, ~100,000 miles...head has never been off it, bottom end has never been touched.

Fuel management is JWT: Cobra MAF, 50lb injectors, top feed rail...and base timing is @ 22 BTDC to make up for a little of the JWT *conservative* timing.

Turbo is T3/T04E, 57 trim, .63 A/R, Stg III wheel...Revhard manifold, TiAL 35mm, open DUMP.

Turbo outlet pipe is ~18" of 2.5" pipe, then full 3" from there back, 3" universal Magnaflow muffler.

Intercooler is GReddy VSPL.

I think that's all the pertinent details...

I was happy with the outcome...I expected +280rwhp...but didn't think it would top 295.

Graph looks a little weird...the GREEN run was the 2nd one, and he got into it a little easy...there was clutch slip on the first run (not shown on the graph, and it was dyno operator error)...and he was easy on it for the #2 pull.

The good, clean pull is the RED line, and it's 3rd gear (clutch slipped in 4th, dyno guy overheated it backing it up onto the mobile dyno...it was 8' off the ground).

http://www.KA24DEvelopment.com...i.jpg

Anyway, questions, comments, etc...welcome.

- Brian

[:: orion ::]

And here's a video, all you can hear is the DUMP!!!

http://www.putfile.com/media.p...h=320

A buddy recorded that for me...and for clarification, the guy at the end of the video is NOT me, it's a buddy of mine...Kai.

- Brian
Modified by :: orion :: at 8:44 PM 2/20/2005

[IanS13]

nice numbers man real nice.

[Red-KAT]

You look NOTHING like the pic's you sent me.......

[BlackFlag_s13]

hehe my name is Kai...

nice numbers too

[TheOne]

hey orion, ya got aim or msn? i got a couple of questions over usin the J30 lsd on an S13.aim is jarek1us or msn is [email protected]

btw nice numbers at 12psi!.

[slipnfall]

Very nice. My future plans for a turbo were 12psi max, so hearing that you pulled out ~300rwhp makes me very happy too. :-)

What are your plans from here?

I'm gonna take a look at the vid now...

-Slip

[PalmerWMD]

Very nice Brian!

Love to see these kind of success stories from our members!

Fred..

[S14tat]

thats some damn nice numbers. i wish i can make that much power when i run 13 psi.

[Nismo_Freak]

LOL those look like SR20DE-T numbers hahahah.

Nice though!

[:: orion ::]

Thanks guys...

The curve is weird for a KA, but I don't mind the power delivery at all...I typically road race and auto-x the car, so the top end is great (doing Road Atlanta in March with the Panoz School...it shold be *perfect* for that road course).

Plans from here:

Lots of use-and-abuse. I always said I didn't need more than ~200rwhp to do what I like to do...so this is more than plenty in the power department...the suspension needs some fine tuning (but it's pretty good already), I'm set in the brake department...might need new wheels at some point (9.5" front, 10.5" rear) with proper offset to fot a 255 / 275 combo (running 235/255 9" wheels now, car is pretty well balanced IMO).

(Oh...and "TheOne"..shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] - Make sure VLSD or 240SX is in the title, otherwise it might get deleted)

- Brian

[sil80drifter]

Less TQ than HP?! That KA-T's whack!

j/k, JWT cams will do that.

sil80

[turtl631]

Very cool, sounds like you have a lot of fun with it. Seems reliable too, I wonder if an Enthalpy ECU tune could get similar power without having to advance base timing. How much of a difference do you feel between the stock s14 cams, the dual s13 exhaust cams, and the jwt cams?

[DammitBobby]

That is great news!! Have a lot of fun with it!!

[UncleBen]

That is exactly the kind of power I'm looking for w/ my car. I'm going to be running a very similiar setup to you so I hope mine runs just as well. Sweet numbers, they're very reasurring for me!

[:: orion ::]

1) ...I wonder if an Enthalpy ECU tune could get similar power without having to advance base timing.

2) How much of a difference do you feel between the stock s14 cams, the dual s13 exhaust cams, and the jwt cams?

1) I'm sure he could...his is more spot-on, not erring on the conservative side, like JWT. But I would bet that if you ompared notes, you find the timing curve of an Enthlpy ECU to be just a few more degrees across the board...which is the same thing as advancing the base timing a little. (BTW, met "Enthalpy" (Scott) last Sunday at an SCCA event...hung out during the event, we had lunch...nice guy. Knows his ****, obviously. He was trying to talk me into switching to one of his tunes...)

2) Stock cams: Boost came on harder, and a little lower in the RPMs (~3400rpm or so...) and then I had ~12psi and a TQ peak at ~4200...ripped the tires loose EVERY time in 2nd. Then it felt kinda flat up top...above 6k.

S13 cams: Similar to above, but everything seemed to be moved up ~400-500rpm in the power band. Spool was hurt a little (12psi by ~3500 maybe), and the TQ peak was a little "easier" (less of a hard hit)...then it pulled 'ti l redline. My favorite cams for the street....

Dual S13 exhaust cams (248/248): Similar changes from the S14 cams to the stock S13 cams...just more top end. Slower spool by maybe another 100rpm, and a much more mellow powerband (just felt like it kept making more and more power 'til redline...I'll bet a dyno would look like the JWT cams dyno).

JWT cams: Feels like an SR, or a Honda motor or something...don;t get me wrong, it's PLENTY of TQ in the midrange, but it just keeps pulng to redline, unlike any other KA I've driven.

I think what illustrates my point best is to look at the 8psi dyno I posted up there, and compare to the 12psi dyno...you can see how much harder the boost comes on between 3000 to 4000 at 8psi...versus the smoother delivery at 12spi.

Hope that helps - Brian

[turtl631]

Definitely, everything you said makes sense. Nice numbers, encouraging to me as well. How many miles have you put on this setup? I know you said 11 months, but people drive very different amounts...

[:: orion ::]

Well, this setup has been in and runnig ~12psi since April '04...maybe 6,000 miles, most of them at (or on the way to) the road course or an autocross.

I have a daily driver, but still drive the S14 to work once or twice a week.

But the history of my setup:

Turbo'd in Feb '03 w/ Hacked MAF...blown up 2 weeks later (too much timing)...fixed with a spare piston from another KA...then run at 6-8psi for 7-8 months...then a newer stock KA (87k) was swapped in...still ~8psi...then new fuel system and computer in April '04...12psi since.

Lots of open lapping on a local ~1 mile road course, and the monthly auto-x.

You can read more about the build and the blow-up on my website...look under the "My 240SX" page under "Engine Modifications" for the link:

http://ka24development.com/my_240sx.html

- Brian

[sil80drifter]

poor ringlands... i hope cryo treating mine will help them stay alive for a while longer than stock. I'm gonna be careful with timing, but... still i'm a bit concerned abotu them.

sil80

[turtl631]

It seems like the ringlands are the true achilles heel of the KA. I would like to know if anyone has put in stock bore forged pistons themselves. Machining costs get so high...A friend of mine recently put all new rings on his GSR engine and rehoned the cylinders with the rental tool from autozone. It went from smoking and burning tons of oil to burning absolutely none and blowing perfectly clean exhaust. That got me thinking...if they can put in new rings themselves, what's to keep us from putting in forged pistons ourselves?

[:: orion ::]

You answered you rown question...piston size.

Forgies need differen cylindr clearances than OEM pistons...if you pulled your stock pistons, determined the size *and* grade..then you could figure out the exact bore size (to within a couple thousnadths...)...then you could order forged slugs of the right size, use a "dingleberry" hone, and slap it all back together!

But IMO...I'd rather blow up one stock block...and then buy another...rather than build one. Cost for pistons is about the same as the cost for a new KA...!

- Brian

[WDRacing]

I'm so disappointed Bri....you should have added 2 more lbs of boost to break the 300 mark...

I'm also a big fan of keeping the stock internals until you destroy a motor do to excessive force rather then tuning. It's fun to rag every last bit of power out of a stock part. The KA seems to be good right up to 400rwhp before the rings unass themselves.

[turtl631]

Most of the stock block KAs over 300 whp seem to blow ring lands eventually. I think this happened to Virus77, someone else on here recently (he lost #4 IIRC), and I remember reading of others. I just don't see many long lasting KAs on stock block over 300 whp without standalone. I'm talking about a setup with 50 lb or 550 cc injectors, JWT ECU or enthalpy ROM tune, etc, rather than just a DIY attempt at an SAFC tune with a MSD BTM or something. I'd like to be proven wrong though...this just seems to be what I've been finding.

[:: orion ::]

I'm so disappointed Bri....you should have added 2 more lbs of boost to break the 300 mark...

How about another 0.1psi...???

I'm doing 12rwhp per PSI right now...all I needed was another 1.11rwhp to hit 300...that's 1/11 of a psi. Next time I'll dyno at ~12.1psi to hit it...hehe.

And I would have done a ~300 run had the clutch not slipped on the 1st pass...but the dyno guy had me worried about getting home, I thought he killed my clutch!

And "turl631"...I agree, that when you start pushing out twice the stock HP, things are closer to breaking...and all it takes is one little error to blow your KA up. But if it's "buttoned up" properly, there's no reason it shouldn't hold up for a long time...maybe not 200k, but I'll be happy with 50k of abuse!

- Brian

[Rusty 240]

And just like that, did you use ajustable jwt cam sprocket to go with your cams. Because on the site that"s what they told to do if you want to go with top end power like you do. Anyway thanks

[hannibal]

Great numbers, Orion.

Thanks for the cam comparison too. I just picked up S13 cams (240/248) this weekend. I think I made the right choice for my goals.

[:: orion ::]

...did you use ajustable jwt cam sprocket to go with your cams. Because on the site that"s what they told to do if you want to go with top end power like you do...

No cam gears...but I may pick up a set someday, just to see if it helps. The JWT cams do have a little too much overlap for turbo, and I'm sure I'd see gains by dialing a little of that out.

It's just such a pain to adjust cam gears on a KA...

- Brian

[Silviapower]

which JWT cams is this one can you specify lift/duration?

[:: orion ::]

AFAIK, JWT only makes one KA cam set for the DOHC...

And it:

Quote »S1 CAM SET 91-02 KA24DE (RWD ONLY) .390" LIFT / 275 DEG. DUR. GOOD IDLE EXCELLENT MID- RANGE TORQUE. GOOD ALL AROUND SPORT CAM. USE... [/quote]But to compare to OEM specs (i.e. 232/232, or 240/248)...it's more like 256/256 at the OEM lift measurements.

- Brian

[Bronze MFP]

It's just such a pain to adjust cam gears on a KA...

- Brian

what all is involved to getting to the cam gears to make adjustments? is it just the valvecover that has to come off or is there more, like the front cover as well? are the gains worth it?