Just bought a '13 Pathfinder!!

[Towncivilian]

That is insane, it should have a trans cooler! Do you mean the Pathfinder has an auxiliary one in front of the A/C condenser? I can't imagine any vehicle today not having a transmission oil cooler in the radiator.

[Timmbo]

No, the Pathy is the first CVT application using a transmission cooler. Not on the Murano, not on the JX35. I did some fairly heavy towing with my '03 Murano, and never had an issue, towed really well. My buddy had an '06 Murano and towed a large pop-up camper, and he now has an '09 Murano as well.

[kerrton]

Hey, the fact that Nissan can continue to use the 3.5 with little or no change and have such great performance with amazing fuel economy is FANTASTIC! Other companies are dropping to smaller engines with turbo or going with hybrid.

The other interesting thing is the JX35 does not have a transmission cooler, the Pathy does with the updated CVT and the 5000lb towing capacity.

I agree, it seems almost too good to be true.......and the SL trim comes with an integrated command start, come on, that is sweeeet!

[Towncivilian]

No, the Pathy is the first CVT application using a transmission cooler. Not on the Murano, not on the JX35. I did some fairly heavy towing with my '03 Murano, and never had an issue, towed really well. My buddy had an '06 Murano and towed a large pop-up camper, and he now has an '09 Murano as well.

Huh, my dad's '07 Altima has a trans cooler and it has the CVT. CO-15 of the '07 Altima FSM lists CVT oil cooler hoses.

I still think you're referring to an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in addition to the stock cooler in the radiator.

[Timmbo]

Yes, you are correct. Sorry for the confusion and my lack of knowledge! LOL

[kerrton]

You know I checked out the maintenance schedule and the only surprise was that they are still sticking to the old standard of 3750 mile service intervals - basically oil change every 3 months or 3750. This disappoints me a bit, especially considering the manual doesn't even list the possibility of using a full synthetic, which should easily get you in to the 8000 mile range - even a good conventional or semi-synth should get you to 5000 miles or 5-6 month intervals. I drive low miles so for me the time is what's important, having to change the oil every 3 months is a real hassle and if it's not necessary that is really frustrating. I know this is all debatable stuff, but I think looking at other manufacturer's longer intervals and higher quality lubricants are becoming the standard, and even with my current Rogue the dealer has finally authoerized me to use 6 month/ 7500 mile intervals with Mobil 1 full synthetic that they provide. This isn't documented anywhere, just verbal - if this is an option with the 2013 Pathfinder I'd love to see it documented in the maintenance manual rather than the same schedule that hasn't changed since 1991!!

Otherwise the vehicle is low maintenance, no other surprising short intervals on anything other than brake fluid, they seem very concerned about brake fluid and getting it flushed out regularly, can't remember exactly but I think its in the 30,000 mile icrement, but not a big deal, and definitely not a bad idea.

That leads in to the question, historically how does a full synthetic oil like Mobil 1, 5W20 or 0W20 work with this VQ35? The advanatage of this engine is that it's not new, there should be a ton of experience to draw on.

[Timmbo]

Never used it. I know on my G37 we use the Ester oil. Other than that I don't know crap about oil. LOL I have always done the 3750 at my local Nissan dealer who gives me good deals on the changes.

[Towncivilian]

The only Nissan vehicle currently which specifies 0W-20 is the 2013 Altima. I would not put anything but the specified grade in a vehicle under warranty. Also, the VQ tends to shear oil, so anything thinner than a 30-grade oil is not the greatest idea.

Also, Nissan Ester oil is nothing special and is overpriced for what you get, in my opinion. See this virgin oil analysis. While it has a decent metallic additive package, for the price (around $11/qt?) you could be buying something like Redline which is also ester based and has a better additive package; see this virgin oil analysis of Redline 5W-30.

[mechanicalmoron]

That's a mighty fine looking minivan.

But no matter what it says, it's not a pathfinder.

[Timmbo]

That's a mighty fine looking minivan.

But no matter what it says, it's not a pathfinder.

Oh, you didn't just say that!!!!

[kerrton]

The only Nissan vehicle currently which specifies 0W-20 is the 2013 Altima. I would not put anything but the specified grade in a vehicle under warranty. Also, the VQ tends to shear oil, so anything thinner than a 30-grade oil is not the greatest idea.

Also, Nissan Ester oil is nothing special and is overpriced for what you get, in my opinion. See this virgin oil analysis. While it has a decent metallic additive package, for the price (around $11/qt?) you could be buying something like Redline which is also ester based and has a better additive package; see this virgin oil analysis of Redline 5W-30.

I wouldn't consider using anything but the grade specified by the manufacturer either. But I would want to do is go with a full synthetic, and extend the change interval from 3750 miles to 5000, or more importantly for me I want to change the oil once every 6 months, NOT every 3 as the manual states. That's 2 oil changes per year rather than 4, and so that justifies the higher cost for synthetic and I actually spend less than on 4 regular oil changes.

It's that 3-month change interval that I don't like - Nissan is really one of the last manufacturer's to stick with that old schedule. Even with conventional oil, or semi-synthetic like Hyundai and Kia specifies as their "house oil", you can go much further between oil changes than you could just a couple decades ago and I'm disappointed that Nissan hasn't adopted a more modern maintenance schedule. A lot of competitors have the on-board maintenance reminder, and in my experience if you go by these things you barely ever change the oil - perhaps too far the other way and not conservative enough. I have a buddy with a Honda Pilot, and he "changes the oil once a year whether the maintenance reminder says to or not".

I wouldn't be comfortable with yearly oil changes, but the point being, Honda doesn't even specify a time interval, just mileage. Yet Nissan still has this goofy 3-month rule. It makes me wonder if its based on engineering and hard data, or just as a cash grab for the dealerships. What does Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Ford, GM etc. know that Nissan doesn't??

[sstroudwku]

Ok, I'm not going to to really go through everyone's posts and quote and correct.

First - take it to the dealer there is a recall on the TCM and it needs to be updated.

Second - The 3,750 oil changes are schedule one, and even though they have not released a true schedule II yet they will, Our internal information recommends using Ester oil, this applies to Max, Alt as well with the 3.5. We stick with this old schedule because we do have some sludge issues still. I'm sitting on 3 Sentra B16's 2.0l short blocks with fused piston rings due to lack of regular oil changes.

Third - The JX and the Path currently have different transmissions. The JX is using the current Murano CVT and AWD system. This explains the STAND ALONE trans cooler only on the Path and not the JX standard, it's located in front of the driver front tire, you can see vents there. It will receive the bigger trans as an option. Also the JX receives a Supercharged 2.5L next year in a Hybrid. All Nissan CVT's use a trans cooler built into the bottom end of the radiators, these are also considered warmers. The new 2013 Sentra actually has a t-stat built into the trans cooler line to restrict it til the engine reaches Op-Temp.

Fourth - The 2013 2.5 Altima only RECOMMENDS 0w20, it's states with an * that you can use 5w30 but you will not be able to achieve the same fuel mileage. I would not put 0w20 in the Path. Oil weights do not play a large part in warranty claims, it's the intervals that you use. I would honestly recommend using BMW Premium Syn 5w30. I've used it multiple vehicles over the years and it seems to be the best for the price. I pay $6.25/qt at the local BMW dealer. And with their 1yr/15,0000 mile intervals they seem to trust it quite a bit.

[Timmbo]

Nice info!

[mechanicalmoron]

About the oil change TIME intervals, three months may well make sense in some places, because of moisture concerns, or gunk (not necessarially "sludge") buildup caused by short drives in cold or moist conditions.

In, say, tx or az, I don't think time matters at all, if you're using a good oil it's not about to break down just sitting in your oil pan, or it would be junk out of the bottle anyways.

Or maybe nissan doesn't trust their PCV systems as much as other manufacturers? As far as warrenty goes, isn't it all paid for with the price of the car anyways? They probably see it as being a better business move, overall, in case of hard environments that are not necessarially considered like whatever the "heavy" duty requirements include, to simply keep things cleaned out and not have problems with things like rust in their engines causing warrenty claims, what if someone gets it changed and lets it sit? that requirement makes them drive it to a dealership every three months and get everything warmed up, and then get any moisture or other crap from disuse changed out.

Also, about BMW's high oil change intervals, I was under the impression that they also have very high sump capacity compared to other vehicles in the same engine classes, so there's simply more oil to absorb the same amount of heat/oxidation and contaminants. I don't think it's because their oil is particularly amazing.

[sstroudwku]

Yes BMW's use a higher sump capacity, my 2.5l holds 6.9qts of oil. It does factor into the longer intervals. But a good synthetic or syn blend will easily sustain a Nissan engine for 5,000 miles.

[kerrton]

That's some great info, thanks a lot.

Just to clarify, in case there's any confusion: Ester Oil = Synthetic.

I find it really surprising that the JX will have two trans options next year, one for "basic" duty and presumably the Pathfinder next-gen CVT that will be marketed as a
"heavy duty" trans.....the supercharged 2.5 hybrid will make big news, very interested to see how that turns out.

I wonder if the supercharged 2.5 will be available as a standalone without the hybrid electric components? It would makes sense, all of the leading manufacturer's who are making big gains in efficiency are moving towards turbos and direct injection as a way to reduce engine displacement to gain efficiency without sacrificing power. I don't know what kind of numbers this 2.5 would produce, but perhaps it will be an option in place of the VQ35?

[mechanicalmoron]

But as far as those efficiency gains go, isn't it just natural to pair it with hybrid, if that's the goal of boosting?

That's like the best of all worlds, you have boost AND electric assist and can have a peppy car, (if not a motorsports type of peppy.... but this is a glorified minivan, anyways), but if it's got a smart ecu, it should also be able to do really great milage, both in the city with electricity and on the highway with small displacement/properly used boost.

[Timmbo]

Regarding the JX, I am guessing they will pair the newest version of the CVT with the Hybrid simply to increase the MPG.

[kerrton]

But as far as those efficiency gains go, isn't it just natural to pair it with hybrid, if that's the goal of boosting?

That's like the best of all worlds, you have boost AND electric assist and can have a peppy car, (if not a motorsports type of peppy.... but this is a glorified minivan, anyways), but if it's got a smart ecu, it should also be able to do really great milage, both in the city with electricity and on the highway with small displacement/properly used boost.

Yeah I agree, the only part of the equation that doesn't work out is the cost - those electric components are expensive as hell!

If you look at a 2013 Pathfinder with the VQ35 engine compared to a supercharged QR2.5 hybrid electric, I bet you'd get 25% better fuel efficiency with the hybrid vs. the normal V6. If you were to add the supercharged 2.5 on its own without hybrid electric, the power and performance numbers would probably come out close, slightly less with the 2.5 but efficiency may increase by around 10%.

Now of course I'd rather get 25% better efficiency rather than only 10%, but to get 25% gains I have to fork out a ton of money, lets say about an extra $8000 on top of an already very pricey vehicle (just a very rough number, who knows exactly but this is probably close). To get the 10% improvement in efficiency, the supercharged 2.5 should cost close to the same sticker price as the VQ35, within say $1000 which is basically equal. Take the Ford Explorer for example, you can get the 3.5 normal aspirated V6, or the 2.0 turbo 4-cylinder for $1000 more.

All I'm saying is, there is a lot of very amazing things that technology can do for us, in reality we could have migrated completely away from oil and gas decades ago if we wanted to, but the barrier is huge costs.

What we need is bridging, intermediate technologies for the short-term that are affordable now and offer some progress in the right direction. The Nissan CVT is a great example, the Pathfinder puts up some awesome efficiency and performance numbers for an affordable price - the new Pathfinder is actually a lot cheaper than the outgoing Pat with old mechanicals!! I am wondering if the supercharged 2.5 will be another example of this - roughly same cost to manufacture and for consumers to purchase, but with 5-10% efficiency gains.

Superchargers and turbos don't = better efficency, but what they do is allow you to put a smaller displacement engine in a vehicle which will use less fuel when ideling, upon start up, and under light loads. If you constantly drive hard and aggressively and always place heavy loads on your engine, the turbo or supercharged 4-cylinder won't offer much benefit. But for people who drive conservatively, the gains can be significant. I would really like to see Nissan do something similar to Ford, and offer a small, boosted 4-cylinder in this large crossover, maintaining power and performance, while adding much improved efficiency. Combined with the next-gen CVT, noboby could touch Nissan, not today anyway, and the need for a complicated, expensive hybrid electric system is vastly reduced.

[kerrton]

Right now I think the '13 Pathfinder is an effective Highlander and Pilot killer, as you would expect with a new model against 5+ year old designs.

However I'm sure the CVT will be the limiting factor, as many will not tolerate it, in particular the inability to repair or rebuild it. The only thing Nissan can do is work on the PR behind the CVT, bring the actual cost of replacement CVT units way down to the point where it would be equal to a rebuild of competitors conventional trannies, say around the $2500 range. Then the Pathfinder will be unstoppable....until 2014-15 when redesigned Highlanders and Pilots will be out.....the battle rages on.

[kerrton]

After a couple months of sales, there is what I consider some bad news regarding the dependability of the Pathfinder CVT. This service bulletin was released, they need to reprogram the TCM to address the CVT belt slipping issue which causes excessive wear, premature failure and poor drivability.

http://www.pathfindertalk.com/forum/war ... -slip.html

Yes reprogramming the TCM is no big deal and likely will eliminate the issue, but such a fundamental problem with this "new and improved CVT" really drops my confidence regarding long-term reliablity of the CVT - did they even test this thing before releasing it to the public??!! What other unknown, yet to be discovered issues are there with this new CVT??!! It's no fun to drive a vehicle with these concerns, in reality it might be a great unit but if your peace of mind is low that's all that really matters.

I was hoping and assuming that this CVT was thoroughly tested to ensure no major issues, but this seemingly obvious major issue was missed and we the consumers are the testers. I don't like it at all, for all the money we pay we should not have to be the guinnea pig testers, and even if you get the TCM update who knows how much extra wear and tear the CVT experienced prior to the fix, you'll never know until long after the warranty is over I'm sure - by then Nissan will offer no assistance or support if you need to replace the non-serviceable $5000+ CVT.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. On the bright side all new Pathfinders will have the correct programming, and yes its a first-year model so minor issues are to be expected, I just didn't expect a major powertrain issue on the most expensive and worrysome component. This may push me more towards the upcoming new Durango with European-built ZF 8-spd transmission, the same transmission that will also go in to the redesigned Honda Pilot. The 2014 Durango will have full smartphone integration with lots of cutting edge features like being able to remote start the vehicle with your smartphone from anywhere in the world. We'll see.....there's just too much good competition out there for consumers to have to compromise...

[kerrton]

....lots of discussion on that 2013 Pat forum, I see a couple owners reporting that even after they received the TCM upgrade/reflash, they still have the belt slipping, surging CVT issue. Man that sucks.

[Timmbo]

Makes me feel good about my JX35 with the proven CVT! I have not had any issues, nice and smooth, great during towing as well!

[kerrton]

Yeah good point, your CVT has been around for at least 5 years and who knows how many undocumented incremental improvements they've made along the way to really perfect it. It's been very reliable and I'm sure you'll have many many years of reliable service!

[coledog188]

Well 3200 miles into owning the Pathy I have a new passenger seat

Long story: I had noticed that when I was sitting in the driver's seat with my seat belt buckled and nothing/nobody in the passenger's seat without it buckled the "buckle seatbelt" light would stay on while driving about 90% of the time.
Also, I had noticed that sometimes (50%) the "passenger airbag off" light would come on even when someone of weight was sitting in the passenger's seat while buckled.

After bringing it in for service, getting my TCM recall taken care of, and having the airbag sensor circuit (or whatever it was, I'd have to look it up) reset to fix the light everything seemed alright. I was wrong...

Three days or so went by and then the "buckle seatbelt" light came back on again randomly and then back to the steady 90% of the time...So I brought it back to the dealership and they looked at it for a bit and hooked it up with the Nissan Engineers and they looked through the car remotely and all that good stuff. They then decided there wasn't anything they could do for me that day and sent me on my way with a promise that any new information would be immediately told to me and that this issue would be taken care of ASAP. I heard from them within 24 hours but unfortunately they didn't really have much useful info.

After 5 days I decided to call up Nissan Corporate just to speed up the process a little. After talking to a national rep and told me that he would refer all my info to the regional reps and they would be getting in touch with me within 24 hours. True to their word I got a phone call and the lady was very nice and wanted it all sorted out. They were going to fly in a Nissan engineer specifically for my car and take care of it ASAP. I called the dealer as instructed and set it up to get a loaner the next day and drop my Pathfinder off.

It was done in about 4-5 hours, left the engineer puzzled, but my car was all set. They ended up having to swap in a new passenger seat from a car on the lot with the same interior. The parts/seats were on backorder and they didn't want me without my new car for very long at all. I've been driving it two days now and haven't had a single light issue or any other issues. Also, the regional rep is supposed to be getting in touch with me and offering me "compensation" or whatever for all the issues...Hopefully they'll make a payment or entend the mileage for me. (Or maybe a remote car starter...?)

I will say that the Toyota RAV4 they gave me as a loaner from Hertz was miserable and rough and loud compared to my beautiful Pathy...Never again do I want to drive one of those! Oh and I drove my parent's 2011 Subaru Outback for 5 days to keep miles off my car (lease) and that was horrible as well! It even had the V6 and paddle-shifters...but it was just miserable and uncomfortable.

In any case, that's the end of the saga...I stumped a dealership, a service advisor, a veteren service tech, and a Nissan engineer!

[kerrton]

Wow. You know, besides the fact that it sucks to have a defect in your brand new vehicle, that was a pretty positive story I think. It sounds like Nissan bent over backwards to not only fix your issue but to do it as quickly as possible, which sounds like it was a big headache considering it was a very new and rare problem. This issue likely had a much higher priority because it was a safety issue and could have gotten ugly in a hurry if they were to get investigated for vehicle safety/recall issues, but nonetheless they stepped up and too care of it.

Very informative post, glad to hear that the Pathy was superior to the RAV and Outback and that you are still very happy with it. My Rogue is rough and loud as well, I'm very tempted to upgrade to a Pathy and reviews like this are good info. for future consideration. In particular it sounds like the Pathy has a nice comfy ride and lots of sound deadening which is great if you have kids. Thanks for taking the time to write this up!

By the way, has anyone really tested the rear heater in cold weather? I've heard it is really weak, and its a seperate electric heater module that is way undersized for the job. If this is the case I'll be really disappointed because rear heat is an upgrade I really want for my kids in our next vehicle.

[Timmbo]

We have had just the opposite experience with the rear heater in our JX, my wife rode back there, she said it was HOTTTTTTT. My boys are always nice and toasty back there. I am in Green Bay, WI, when my wife rode back there it was below zero (F not C) and extremely windy.

[kerrton]

That's great to know, thanks a lot. I'll also be sure to test this feature out in cold weather test drive before I go ahead with purchase. I'm putting this off at least until the 2014's are out, my 08 Rogue is still well as a basic utility vehicle...

[Timmbo]

You should snag a good deal on a 2013 once the 2014's are out at the end of the year.

[coledog188]

Per friends riding in the backseat of my Pathy, they haven't reported any issues of being cold. Hester and fan works great and keeps everyone toasty warm.

I'm currently in VA with my dad, we took my Pathfinder and we both agree that it's incredible for trips. Power, comfort, sound system, ride, everything is incredible in it and I was perfectly comfortable after 9 hours and 45 minutes of driving while only stopping 3 times for gas/food.