JIC suspension opinions and bushing install

[AJ-SPEC]

I emailed JIC to find out what they recommend for my application. I autox 2x a month, drift on the weekends, and roadrace every 2-3 months or so. I want to maintain daily driveablilty, but I also want to be competetive. I've seen on other posts that people don't like to hear that you are interested in all of them, but I am, and I do all of them. so anyway, they recommended 12-14kg front, and 10kg rear. they said to set up for roadrace, but for drifting to change the rear tire pressure and set the dampening to stiff. the spring rates sound pretty agressive. what do you guys think?

also, I've decided to go ahead and get the full poly bushing set, prob. energy suspension, but I've been told that labor is a *****, and it could run me close to a grand to install. does this sound right? anyone in the dallas/fort worth area know of any shops that do this?

[yeswepromise]

i would say F**K JIC and go with anotehr brand.

[BadMojo]

Well...unless the roads where you live are as smooth as glass, I think that spring rate is going to rattle you and your car to pieces!

Maybe the valving on the FLTA2's really is the ****, but I think that you're gonna hate driving on normal (ie. less than perfectly paved) streets with that setup. I've seen people complain about 8/6 on the HE's. Even if the valving on the JIC's is better than the Tein, you're talking about springs up to 7x stiffer than stock!

Really stiff springs + poly bushings = harsh ride.

How much would it be to buy some extra springs later on? I know Tein charges $50 per spring. You could always start out with the standard 8/6 or even 10/8 and see if it suits your needs when matched up with some new poly bushings.

[Exar-Kun]

he's racing a lot. Sounds like you have the same "daily driveability" thing I have "as long as I dont get bruises from riding in my car"

anyways, I'm not a fan of JIC, but check out th NISMO derlin bushings, trophy supposively carries them, allong with a few other sites listed in the "where to buy" section also, check out SPL parts, they carry pop-in sperical alluminum bushings for your car ...

if you arent going tto replace entire chunks of your suspension, that would be a good way to go. and yes, labor will be expensive, especially if you decide to do the sub-frame bushings.-chet

[Ceptos]

what kind of coilovers would you guys recommend over JIC?

maybe get adjustable spring rate coilovers?

[Auto-X 240]

Just to give you an idea about how your car will feel on the road I'll tell you what I am running. I have GC coilovers on Koni SA shocks. Spring rates are 9 (500lb) front and 6.7 (375lb) rear. the shocks are almost full stiff to control the hard springs and i will tell you that the ride is quite brutal. I also have all whiteline poly bushings.

So, if you think you're gonna drive your car to work every day on 14/10 springs, think again. You could get several sets of springs and change them out before the events but you would have to be sure to get the same ride height between the different sets or your alignment will be off.

[S14 Wannabe]

also, I've decided to go ahead and get the full poly bushing set, prob. energy suspension, but I've been told that labor is a *****, and it could run me close to a grand to install. does this sound right? anyone in the dallas/fort worth area know of any shops that do this?

I have the whole bushing kit in my car and installment isn't hard at all. Really the only problem we (me and a friend) had installing them was putting in the front control arm bushing. You can "press" it in yourself with a vice. $ 1000.00 in labor is way overpriced.

[AJ-SPEC]

thanks for the replys, yeah now that I've read a little more on bushings, I think I will go with the whole set. But can I really install them myself? I know they're a *****, and I don't want to get ahead of myself. If I start on them, I don't want to have to tow it somewhere because I can't finish. the shop I talked to said they needed to be heated and some other crap.

Yeah, I also thought there spring rate was a little high for daily driving. I don't live in a well paved area, either. I'm thinking that the stock settings are more than enough.

and what's up with JIC? this isn't the first time I've heard people say screw them, but I've heard nothing but good things about their products. This is a kinda weird contradiction. why do you guys say that?

[Ceptos]

do u mean you are going with oem spring rates for your coilovers? i would stiffen them up at least a little, remember the spring is what takes the brunt of the weight shift when going through a turn, and at lower speed tight cornering the 240 seems soft to me.

i havnt really found too many articles about the parts u asked about, but i will be looking a lot over the next few days and will be sure to throw them your way. i guess you already looked through the faq? you can get a general idea of what some parts do just by reading the description on a site that sells them.

[Dori Dori]

Just to give you an idea about how your car will feel on the road I'll tell you what I am running. I have GC coilovers on Koni SA shocks. Spring rates are 9 (500lb) front and 6.7 (375lb) rear.

So you lost height adjustability in the front then right? How low does it sit? Got a pic?

[AJ-SPEC]

do u mean you are going with oem spring rates for your coilovers? i would stiffen them up at least a little, remember the spring is what takes the brunt of the weight shift when going through a turn, and at lower speed tight cornering the 240 seems soft to me.

i havnt really found too many articles about the parts u asked about, but i will be looking a lot over the next few days and will be sure to throw them your way. i guess you already looked through the faq? you can get a general idea of what some parts do just by reading the description on a site that sells them.

No, I mean the spring rates that they send them to you in. I think it's something like 447lb./336. I am also considering tien drift spec (he) but I'm not sure what the difference is from the Ha.

[Exar-Kun]

larger damper body(I believe) full length adjustability and pillow mounts.-chet

[AJ-SPEC]

what do you guys think, JIC or Tein HE's? (drift spec)

bushing wise, energy suspension or Nismo? I had read on another thread that Nismo claims energy suspension bushings are quite stiff.

[Ceptos]

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.....html

you may have seen this before, its the sport compact car article that uses the JIC's. through most of the posts i have read, people have spoken very well of the JIC's. its only recently i am hearing some that do not recommend them, for those who would not buy JIC, what is your recommendation? is there a reason not to get JIC?

i have read a few times on this forum that some tein coilovers have corrosion problems, i think mainly with salt in the winter time, but regular cleaning should prevent this, something you should probably do anyway. i get the impression than the JIC coilovers are a very complete system, they seem to have a lot of damage prevention, and also come with the pillow ball upper mounts.

this is the one part i decided not to go cheap on, might as well spend another $400 or so on a better set than buy a whole new one later.

oh, and i bought a book on suspension setups, has nothing in it about tension rods and the like =( but it covers a lot of ground, i dont have as much experiance so a reference like this is quite handy.

[Dori Dori]

The tension rods give support to the control arms. They also add the ability (if purchasing adj ones) to adjust caster. Read in that book the benifits of caster and the tension rods will become very appealing.

Tein ha's rust, not he's. He's are aluminum and have monotube design. Very similar to the Jic's, but the Tein's (HE) don't come with an inverted strut design in the front (FLTA2's do), but other models of Tein's do (like the RA). Ha's are entry level street/race coilover...they don't even come w/ pillowball tops, they have to be ordered seperately. The comparable Teins (RA) cost quite a bit more though as do all other comparable coilovers from all other companies. Somehow, Jic includes all the feature of a good street/race coilover but keeps the prices low. They are a good coilover, no doubt about it but I've heard the US support kinda sucks. Also, in the past (before all the hype started), they were known to blow and have problems. People seem to be happy with them now though, so who knows.

[S13hashiriya]

If you're considering 12-14kg front/10kg rear, have you looked at GP Sports? They're 12kg/10kg. When I was shopping for coil-overs, the only ones that fit my application were Teins and GP Sports. I went with GP Sports cuz for the price, they're better quality than the Teins, plus "Drift King" Tsuchiya Keiichi helped design the GP Sports ones.

As for ride, you'll have to judge for yourself. I don't use my car as a daily driver, but I wouldn't mind if I had to. My wife doesn't think the ride is too harsh either. I love not needing to slow down on turns I had to slow down on before.

[Dori Dori]

What, in your opinion, made them higher quality than Tein? And what Tein's were you comparing them to?

[S13hashiriya]

I was looking at the Tein HA and HE. IMO, the lower end Tein products are cheaply made. (Tein's higher end products are good, tho.) I know it's not going to be a popular opinion because a lot of ppl run Teins. I went with GP Sports cuz the manufacturer (Kei Office) has a better reputation. Plus, I got hooked up with the GP Sports coil-overs. But even if I didn't, the Tein HE and GP Sports coil-overs were about $50 diff in price.

[AJ-SPEC]

I thought the JIC was an exellent choice also, and haven't heard that many people blowing them because I don' know anyone that has them.

I'm not sure if 12k-10k will work in my area. if you have nice, paved roads then maybe, but around here the state flower is the pothole...

[Dori Dori]

I was looking at the Tein HA and HE. IMO, the lower end Tein products are cheaply made. (Tein's higher end products are good, tho.) I know it's not going to be a popular opinion because a lot of ppl run Teins. I went with GP Sports cuz the manufacturer (Kei Office) has a better reputation. Plus, I got hooked up with the GP Sports coil-overs. But even if I didn't, the Tein HE and GP Sports coil-overs were about $50 diff in price.

Actually, Tein has an excellent reputation and you still haven't answered my question...what was so low quality about the teins and how did your coilovers improve on it? He's...aluminum, pbm's, monotube, 16-way dampening adjustable, threaded shock body...sounds pretty good. The only difference (spec wise) between these and the GP's is the lower camber bracket you get with the GP's (which was the only part 'designed' with Tsuchiya’s aid). HA's are affordable, medium/entry level stuff, definitely not in the same ball park as another company's premier product (which is also almost $600 more mind you). I just don't think it's intelligent to bash a company b/c they have a vast line-up. God forbid they want to appeal to a variety of people in different money brackets and with different needs. Have you ever seen a Tein RA? What about a RE? Or tein's premier racing coilover, the RS? Pretty nice stuff...

[S13hashiriya]

I just don't think it's intelligent to bash a company b/c they have a vast line-up. God forbid they want to appeal to a variety of people in different money brackets and with different needs. Have you ever seen a Tein RA? What about a RE? Or tein's premier racing coilover, the RS? Pretty nice stuff...

Well, I just don't think it's intelligent to write I'm "bashing a company" when I'm not. If you read my reply, you would have noticed I did write, "Tein's higher end products are good". How am I bashing a company?

And may god, the baby jesus, and the virgin mary forbid that I partly based a purchasing decision on opinions I've heard from people I talked to, and from forums like this.

[Auto-X 240]

So you lost height adjustability in the front then right? How low does it sit? Got a pic?

Sorry for the delay, been very busy. Here's a write-up on the car and a few pics. I used a $" spring in the front from H&R instead of GC's Eibach spring so I could get the ride height I wanted. Be warned about GC, if you want something other than AGX shocks with their coilover kits you could run into installation problems as I did. The first thing you should do is ignore their instruction sheet they send with the kits.

http://www.performance-special...d=204

[Dori Dori]

Well, I just don't think it's intelligent to write I'm "bashing a company" when I'm not. If you read my reply, you would have noticed I did write, "Tein's higher end products are good". How am I bashing a company?

You are bashing the company b/c you say they have a bad reputation (not true) and their lower line of products (you made the example of the HE), in your opinion were low quality. Well, again, what is so low quality, in your opinion, about the HE's?

[Dori Dori]

Sorry for the delay, been very busy. Here's a write-up on the car and a few pics. I used a $" spring in the front from H&R instead of GC's Eibach spring so I could get the ride height I wanted. Be warned about GC, if you want something other than AGX shocks with their coilover kits you could run into installation problems as I did. The first thing you should do is ignore their instruction sheet they send with the kits.

http://www.performance-special...d=204

Thanks. The reason I asked is b/c GC told me that the highest s/r I could go (while retaining height adjustment) was 450...I guess that's just Eibach's highest s/r for that spring length. Where'd you buy the H&R's?

[S13hashiriya]

You are bashing the company b/c you say they have a bad reputation

Go back and tell me where I said they have a "bad reputation". You got a big chip on your shoulder, don't you?

[Dori Dori]

Could have sworn you said it, but it looks like you just said their reputation isn't as good as GP's.:doh

...either way, you still talk of the quality of the HE's as being poor but can't back it up. And yeah, I do have a chip on my shoulder b/c I hate people talking crap without backing it up. What's so low-quality about the HE's? What makes them, in your opinion, cheaply made? Educate me.

[S13hashiriya]

ok, that was an honest mistake, and I agree with hating people who talk crap without backing it up. (which btw, I was NOT talking crap about Tein.) So, gather 'round while I tell you the story about my coil-over decision process...

1. I was looking for coil-overs for track use. 2. I decided on around 12/10kg range for spring rate.3. Well, I really want Tanabe, but they're not in my price range, so I narrowed the choices to Tein (HA, HE) and GP Sports G44. hmm, the HE and G4s are very similar (on paper). Tein is such a famous brand. How do I decide?5. Maybe I'll ask some people...6. "What do you think about Teins?" "(making face) Teins rust, don't get them" ......

In hindsight, I should have asked them to clarify which model Tein they were talking about because I believe only the HAs are prone to rust. But, what would you think if you heard that a company's product rusts? For me, that pulled the reputation down enough for me to go with GP Sports. (kinda like the Tercel did for Toyota) Hey, I still think Tein is a great company that makes great products. I love my GP Sports coil-overs, but if something were to make me dissatisfied, you'll all hear about it.

I hope everybody does their own homework and makes their own decision on their car parts.

(Oh if anybody wants to know how I decided what tie to wear to the office this morning or what to eat for dinner today, I'll be glad to share that with you too)

PEACE

[AJ-SPEC]

thanks to those of you that offered usefull comments. But I'm a bit discouraged, too many threads with good topics or questions end up like this one. half is ok, the other half is completely useless. can't we tone down the alpha male syndrome down just a tad?

[BadMojo]

So...have you made your decision?

If it's at all helpful, Tein USA's customer service is very good. I've spoken to them once or twice, and they've always answered questions promptly and professionally.

People don't seem to like the JIC America folks...don't know why. Maybe they're rude...don't really know.

You might also want to check if JIC can rebuild their product here in the States. I know Tein has rebuild facilities, but last I heard JIC was still working on that.

Also, Tein is far more established in the market than JIC is. I'm not saying that JIC is going anywhere, and they actually seem to be really popular (if the Internet is a good way to judge...which it isn't) but Tein is definitely here to stay.

[Auto-X 240]

Thanks. The reason I asked is b/c GC told me that the highest s/r I could go (while retaining height adjustment) was 450...I guess that's just Eibach's highest s/r for that spring length. Where'd you buy the H&R's?

I bought the H&R 4" fronts from some dirt track place in Texas. If you call H&R they will tell you who their closest dealer is to you.

As for GC, the info you get from them seems to depend on who answers the phone and how lazy they are feeling that day. I don't know why they would tell you that 450 was as high as they could go at a given spring length. Eibach makes 2 1/2" i.d. springs in rates over 1000 lbs in many lengths. I have a pair of 500 lb Eibachs that are 5" long sitting on a shelf at my shop that I got from GC. I couldn't get the car as low as I wanted with it so I got H&R 4" springs because GC said that Eibach didn't make a 4" spring. Not true, GC just doesn't stock them.

I am considering lowering my spring rates. The car feels a little skatey at my local events and I am at the limit of what a koni SA is capable of handling in its off the shelf form. I may go down 25lbs in the front and 25-50 lbs in the rear to try to get more traction at corner exit. I should be able to adjust the balance enough with the sway bars and shock settings to get a little less tail happy and let the konis control the fronts a little better.