Jesse Helms, dead but not gone

[skylndrftr]

SA 5074. Mrs. DOLE submitted anamendment intended to be proposed byher to the bill S. 2731, to authorize appropriationsfor fiscal years 2009through 2013 to provide assistance toforeign countries to combat HIV/AIDS,tuberculosis, malaria, and for otherpurposes; which was ordered to lie onthe table; as follows:On page 1, line 5, strike ‘‘and Henry J.Hyde’’ and insert ‘‘, Henry J. Hyde, and JesseHelms’’.

(emphasis mine)

Senator Elizabeth Dole introduced an amendment to rename a Senat bill to include the name of recently deceased Senator Jesse Helms. The bill gives foreign countries funding to help fight AIDS.

Jesse Helms on AIDS:

Jesse Helms, the man who in 1987 described AIDS prevention literature as "so obscene, so revolting, I may throw up."

Jesse Helms, the man who in 1988 vigorously opposed the Kennedy-Hatch AIDS research bill, saying, "There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy."

Jesse Helms, the man who in 1995 said (in opposition to refunding the Ryan White Act) that the government should spend less on people with AIDS because they got sick due to their "deliberate, disgusting, revolting conduct."

Jesse Helms, the man who in 2002 announced that he'd changed his mind about AIDS funding for Africa, but not for American gays, because homosexuality "is the primary cause of the doubling and redoubling of AIDS cases in the United States."

[HashiriyaS14]

Maybe she's trying to stick it to him from beyond the grave?

Who knows, lol. I think it's kinda funny.

[rn79870]

It's called poetic justice. It would be like naming a bill aimed at reducing auto emissions Brian's clean environment bill.

[AZhitman]

By Charlie Black, Time Magazine:

My first paying job in politics was working for Jesse Helms' U.S. Senate campaign in 1972. Helms, who died on July 4 at 86, was a classic populist--he presented his conservative agenda in plain terms that the average person could relate to. And he made history as the first Republican elected to the Senate from North Carolina after Reconstruction. Of course, during his 30-year political career, he was considered controversial; he always thought his job was not to be popular but to do the right thing. I must have heard him quote his father a thousand times: "The Lord does not require you to win, but he does require you to try."

During his first decade in the Senate, he didn't win much. But after Ronald Reagan was elected, he was able to get a lot of bills signed into law with Reagan's help. As chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he was there every step of the way as Reagan worked to end the cold war.

He is known as an unwavering conservative, but he often worked across the aisle. In the 1990s, he and Senator Joe Biden collaborated on significant U.N. reform, and at the end of the Clinton presidency, Helms and his fellow Republicans achieved a balanced-budget agreement, something he had fought for since his first day on Capitol Hill in 1973.

His conservative principles were matched by his compassion. Originally, he didn't think there should be a big government role in combating AIDS. So Bono, who is an advocate for the cause, asked to see him. Bono convinced him, and they worked together--eventually securing some $200 million to fight AIDS in Africa. In a message to the Helms family this week, Bono said that thanks to Jesse Helms' efforts, 2 million lives were saved.

[AZhitman]

God forbid an old-school guy should stick to his principles and resist change.

For those of you old enough to remember, MOST of America felt as Helms did when AIDS was first brought to our collective attention.

Cut the old coot a break for crying out loud.

[skylndrftr]

I''m sorry but I have a hard time giving exceptions for people who push bigotry and hatred as part of a political agenda.

However, he felt how he felt thats fine (his opinoin even if I disagree), I'm honestly more offended by Elizabeth Dole doing this than by What Jesse Helms did. They wanna name somethign like this after him in Africa then great, but doing it here, with his record, really serves no other purpose than to continue this line of thinking which we should be working to change.

[96Qowner]

I''m sorry but I have a hard time giving exceptions for people who push bigotry and hatred as part of a political agenda.

Oh boy, you opened yourself up for a good shot. Careful, careful.

Bigotry and hatred as part of a political agenda? Doesn't that sound a tad familiar in this 2008 campaign?

[AZhitman]

I'm not so sure I'd label it as bigotry and hatred.

[rn79870]

Oh boy, you opened yourself up for a good shot. Careful, careful.

Bigotry and hatred as part of a political agenda? Doesn't that sound a tad familiar in this 2008 campaign?

There is a thread here that contains several quotes from Jesse. The current campaign doesn't come close to Jesse's quips and quotes. Seriously, he may be the product of another place in another time, but by todays standards, he was a racist.

[skylndrftr]

I'm not so sure I'd label it as bigotry and hatred.

There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy."

I know some of these terms get overused nowadays but I think its pretty apt here.

96 its different to hate someone for being a homosexual and refusing to help fight a disease thats killing them then it is to hate someone for lieing and spending all my tax money on a personal wet dream

[Cold_Zero]

What Sen. Helms forgot to mention was, "There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy, sexual promiscuity and sex outside the confines of marriage." But hey, it's a sexually transmitted disease and not a communicable disease.

But hey, I am sure I am a bigot and hateful.

[BigMACKenzie]

Sen. Helms "forgetting" to mention doesn't make him any less of a racist and bigot. It makes you less of one for mentioning it lol He is right up there with Strom thurmond. Im really glad he was born a million years ago when racism was acceptable and all that, but it doesn't mean that what they believed in and fought for was any less detestable and vile. We need to hate this kind of behavior and practice intolerance when it comes to racism, sexism and discrimination otherwise it will always exist.

[rn79870]

Actually Bud, Aids was originaly referred to as the "gay cancer." It seemed to be a problem that was faced by the gay male population, therefore, mainstream America didn't really give a darn about it, many even sheered it. It wasn't until normal people, (remember Ryan White) contracted the disease that there was any support for funding a cure.

[Cold_Zero]

We need to hate this kind of behavior and practice intolerance when it comes to racism, sexism and discrimination otherwise it will always exist.

Yes, because the people that lived hundreds of thousands of years before us just didnt try hard enough to stamp these things out. If we try a little bit harder we can stamp these things out too... Sorry man, I dont believe that any amount of human effort will cure the problems of racism, sexism and discrimination.

I also resent the implication in our society if you say something is wrong, you are being discriminatory. Bolonge

[Cold_Zero]

It wasn't until normal people, (remember Ryan White) contracted the disease that there was any support for funding a cure.

Actually Ryan White was from Kokomo Indiana. I remember him well.

[BigMACKenzie]

sorry wasnt really trying to call you a racist man, just jerking around. And way to be an adolph quitler. I am however a little saddened to hear you give up so easily when it comes to such hateful things. I dont even know how to address such hopelessness. I'm sorry to hear you feel that way though. You can FEEL that something is wrong all you want but hateful speech leads to hateful actions and thats not okay.

[Cold_Zero]

meh,I am a realist about where the source of racism and discrimination comes from. I am not naive in some utopian secular humanistic thinking that if we all just 'Try a little harder" that we can stamp out discrimination. If that makes me a quitter in your eyes, than so be it. I would much prefer to teach my daughter not to discriminate and discern when something is discriminatory and when its not.

[BigMACKenzie]

well I say you are fighting the good fight the best way you can: teaching your children. I also think that if everybody teaches their children the way you do, we can eliminate that kind of nasty garbage. so its totally not hopeless, the glass is half full! take that pessimist lol

[HashiriyaS14]

Jesse Helms did indeed spout some unbelievably racist and otherwise discriminatory rhetoric during his time on this Earth, and I honestly do believe that when he was saying it, he believed it.

That said, he DID really make a serious positive impact on fighting AIDS in Africa. He really did, I'm not making it up, I promise. Even his detractors need to recognize the value of him admitting he was wrong and then making a huge positive difference in the world.

That said, he didn't do it because he no longer discriminated against gays, he did it because he was convinced by others that the disease impacted heterosexuals who contracted it through no "wrongdoing".

Still though, to a certain extent he DID turn around on the issue and so he shouldn't be completely blasted for it.

What Sen. Helms forgot to mention was, "There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy, sexual promiscuity and sex outside the confines of marriage." But hey, it's a sexually transmitted disease and not a communicable disease.

^^Sex outside of the confines of marriage is neither against the law nor is it a behavior which anyone should be attempting to deter via legislation, withholding of government funding, or any other public policy.

I'm neither advocating nor condemning it, but it just shouldn't be a factor. If you can't get the appropriate majority or vote to make something against the law, then that means that there also isn't enough public issue with it to be able to use it (rightfully) as a factor to decide policy.

Thus, sodomy and promiscuity really shouldn't be a factor either, as barring the occasional ancient and unenforced local law, they aren't illegal either.

EDIT: And it's funny you should mention Secular Humanism. I've always said that I would BE a secular humanist if it weren't for the fact that I honestly do believe in God. I'm not quite sure how to reconcile the two, as SH is, well, too secular and Religious Humanism involves too much surrender to faith for my tastes.

[Cold_Zero]

^^Sex outside of the confines of marriage is neither against the law nor is it a behavior which anyone should be attempting to deter via legislation, withholding of government funding, or any other public policy.

I'm neither advocating nor condemning it, but it just shouldn't be a factor. If you can't get the appropriate majority or vote to make something against the law, then that means that there also isn't enough public issue with it to be able to use it (rightfully) as a factor to decide policy.

Thus, sodomy and promiscuity really shouldn't be a factor either, as barring the occasional ancient and unenforced local law, they aren't illegal either.

I would like to point that I said nothing about legislating morality and that you put words (I think) in my mouth. At one time in this country, sex outside the confines of marriage (at least in the case of adultery) was illegal. Doesnt mean that it didnt happen. My point was simply to state that because Jesse Helms picked one source (Sodomy) of the spread of HIV and AIDS, it makes him a racist. Since HIV and AIDS are termed sexually transmitted diseases sex is the main infection medium. We later found out that sharing needles and blood transfusions (tainted blood supplies) were are cause of the spread, so we can add that too.

[HashiriyaS14]

I would like to point that I said nothing about legislating morality and that you put words (I think) in my mouth. At one time in this country, sex outside the confines of marriage (at least in the case of adultery) was illegal. Doesnt mean that it didnt happen. My point was simply to state that because Jesse Helms picked one source (Sodomy) of the spread of HIV and AIDS, it makes him a racist. Since HIV and AIDS are termed sexually transmitted diseases sex is the main infection medium. We later found out that sharing needles and blood transfusions (tainted blood supplies) were are cause of the spread, so we can add that too.

It was not my intention to put words in your mouth, perhaps I misunderstood.

Additionally, when I was talking about sex outside of the confines of marriage, I was speaking primarily of sex between unmarried people. I know that adultery was once a crime almost everywhere.

For what it's worth, given that he DID choose to attribute the whole of the disease to homosexual sodomy I DO think that makes him a bigot, or at least it did at the time he said it. Minds change, and only he really knows how much his ever did.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it made him a racist (although he might well have been one vis-a-vis other means), simply by virtue that, last I checked, homosexuals weren't all of any one particular race, but this is just me dicing words in the obnoxious way that I do.

Anyway, I see your point though, sorry for the misunderstanding. Didn't mean to come off as overly combative.

[Cold_Zero]

Yes, I used the wrong term, I meant to say Bigot.bud