jesda wtf.

[dasoupdude]

Is this cadillac supposed to be rare, ive never seen or heard of it in my life. Saw it today parked in walmart of all places

[AZhitman]

That's an Allante.

Yep. Rare to see one that still runs.

Gorgeous Pininfarina-designed body. SLOW as all hell until they dropped in the Northstar. Never handled worth a damn, FWD is teh suck.

Not really "rare" as I think they built like 20K of them. I haven't seen one on the roads in years (saw one with nearly zero miles at Barrett-Jackson last yaer).

[Dattebayo]

Ah, a Cadillac Failboat.

I had a friend with one about 5 years ago, the engine sucked to work on. I gave up.

[dasoupdude]

fwd v8?

[AZhitman]

Yep.

Nothing new. FWD V8's came out in, I believe, 1969... in the Olds Toronado and Cadillac Eldorado twins.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the Northstar engines were in transversely-mounted applications.

[Jesda]

They're very rare because they had a hell of a time trying to sell them. They cost almost as much as a Mercedes SL but didn't have the performance or credibility.

The Allante is most popularly associated with the Bundy Bounce:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZ42g0kR28[/youtube]
Skip to 0:33

The body was designed by Pininfarina in Italy and was manufactured there as well. The bodies were then shipped to GM in Michigan by a 747 and mated with the powertrain. It also came with a power top, metal roof, and Recaro seats. Unfortunately, in 1987 Cadillac didn't have any decent engines. There was a 4.1L V8 that was low on power but torquey, and not very reliable. The 4.5 was reasonably dependable and offered sufficient power, and the 4.9 (a fantastic engine for being so low-tech) I think was too big to fit into the Allante. It got a Northstar in 1993 and then production ended.

They're getting cheap to buy as used cars because they're getting expensive to keep running. The main annoyance is keeping that weird Bosch ABS braking system going since some of the parts are no longer in production. I had the same trouble with my Saab, but I was lucky enough to find a working brake assembly on ebay for $200. I would have paid as much as $500 used since new parts are unavailable, but thankfully the seller was eager to unload his inventory.

FWD+V8 isn't a big deal in a luxury car if its designed to handle a lot of power from the get go. The Toronado and Eldorado had been FWD cars since 1967.


Cadillac uses equal length half shafts, just like Acura did in the Legend and probably still does in the RL and TL, and the steering has enough play in it, being a soft luxury car and all, to make torque steer barely noticeable. In my 300HP Seville I haven't noticed it, even at wide open throttle.

/wikijesda

[AZhitman]

Mmmmm... Christina....

Wait, what?

Well-done, sir.

[Jesda]

That's an Allante.

Yep. Rare to see one that still runs.

Gorgeous Pininfarina-designed body. SLOW as all hell until they dropped in the Northstar. Never handled worth a damn, FWD is teh suck.

Not really "rare" as I think they built like 20K of them. I haven't seen one on the roads in years (saw one with nearly zero miles at Barrett-Jackson last yaer).

I think they suffer from "Crossfiritis". I'm coining that term now.

The guys who bought Crossfires new or near-new thought they were collectibles that would soon appreciate in value, so they sat on them and rarely drove them. Even though the Crossfire's biggest-selling years were 2004 and 2005, you hardly saw them on the road until 2008 when the owners realized they were just cars. Fun cars, but hardly exotic and not yet (if ever) collectible. Its why five and six year old Crossfires are often seen with mileage under 20k.

Allantes were the same way. Guys would buy them, adore them, and only take them out on Sundays. They're nice cars, especially inside with the Recaro seats, distinctly 80s digital dash, and home audio-influenced swing-out tape deck:

But they're still just cars. Maybe in 20 years GM products of the late 80s will appreciate in value, but I suspect most of the Allante hoarders out there will be deceased or close enough to it. The resale value, after settling down at around $6k-$7k for for several years, has finally plummeted (possibly because of the XLR). Maybe I'll pick one up as a toy next year.

Christ, that would make me the owner of three front wheel drive cars...

[themadscientist]

"Urethra!"

[audtatious]

Yep.

Nothing new. FWD V8's came out in, I believe, 1969... in the Olds Toronado and Cadillac Eldorado twins.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the Northstar engines were in transversely-mounted applications.

The first US manufactured and sold FWD V8 was the 1936 Cord 810 which came with a 289ci V8.

[frapjap]

When I was 16 there was an Allante car club that would eat dinner once a month at the restaurant I worked at.The first time I saw one, there were 16 of them in the parking lot! I think I still have a film picture of all of them at my parents house in a box somewhere. Those cars also came in convertible form.

Since this is about FWD V8's... At the time I owned a 1985 FWD 4.1l V8 Cadillac Eldorado. God that was a slow car, but it was hot and in like new condition.

Also because we're talking about weird FWD sports/luxo cars I thought I'd throw this baby up here:
Buick Reatta

[Bubba1]

Dang, we're doing well identifying the most disappointing Cadillacs of the last 3 decades.
First the Seville with the infamous V8-6-4, now the Allante. Next up, the unreliable "Caddy that Zigs" Catera (rebadged Opel) and the car Time Magazine labelled the worst Cadillac ever: the Cimarron (cavalier with leather seats).

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Buick Reatta's are absolutely hideous, almost as bad as the old Cadillac Seville's with the smashed in trunks. But the Reatta's are actually worth something as a collector's car and you would be hard pressed to find one on the road and the ones you do see are in immaculate condition.

[Bubba1]

Buick Reatta's are absolutely hideous, almost as bad as the old Cadillac Seville's with the smashed in trunks. But the Reatta's are actually worth something as a collector's car and you would be hard pressed to find one on the road and the ones you do see are in immaculate condition.

I don't think the Reatta's are going to appreciate much any time soon as they were not particularly good cars in their days. the only Buick of that era that could be considered collectible is the Grand National. Reattas are about as collectible as a Chrysler TC. (remember that brief awful Chrysler Maserati joint venture?), which means it might be somewhat of a novelty to own one, but absolutely not worth restoring one.

[MinisterofDOOM]

fwd v8?

Eldorado was front drive with an 8.2 liter V8 way back in 1967. Toronado had a 7.5 liter with the same setup in 66. Granted, that was a much different setup. It's still a longitudinally mounted engine, it just drives the front axle instead of the back. Hell, Cord was making FWD I8 and V8 cars back in the 20s and 30s.

Caddies from 1985 until 2002 were all FWD. But those ones were transverse FWD. Sideways V8s. A lot of other GM products use or have used sideways V8s over the last 20 years, too. Like the Buick Lucerne, Impala SS, and Pontiac Bonneville. The Caddies, Buicks, and Pontiacs all used "modern" DOHC engines, but the late Impala SS actually had an LS series (all aluminum) pushrod V8 mounted the wrong way under the hood: the 5.3 liter LS4.

GM even designed the horrible 4.1 liter HT4100 specifically for the smaller, transverse front-drive Cadillacs of the mid-late 80s. That engine was not well-liked, was gutless and unreliable, and did not last long.

Interestingly, despite putting 300 ft-lb V8s sideways in plenty of cars, Cadillac has NEVER had a problem with torque steer like Nissan seems to struggle with. Simple design decisions are the reason for this, and Nissan finally started catching on over the last few years. But it's funny to me that it took them so long to get it right.

The third generation Taurus SHO had a transverse V8, too.

90s Cadillacs are UNSTOPPABLE in the snow because of their powertrain setup.

Also because we're talking about weird FWD sports/luxo cars I thought I'd throw this baby up here:
Buick Reatta

Aaaaaaand, in the Ford corner, the challenger:

The Mercury Capri!

[frapjap]

Ugh. I never realized just how similar those two cars are...

[Bubba1]

Ugh. I never realized just how similar those two cars are...

Ha, the Mercury "Crapi". that vert was the worst of the bunch. the last one I liked was the original German made V6 from the early 70's.

[seang]

I have been meaning to post this link in a Cadillac-themed thread. It might not be the most important thing to have been done, but it is interesting? A 500ci Cadillac V8 using custom mounted, manually operated, V8-6-4 solenoids; translated from Swedish: http://home.swipnet.se/emod/Cad/index.html

If I have it right, it bypasses the "6" part and runs on either 4 or 8 cylinders. And there is no automatic crossover point to act up--whether it is in 4cyl or 8cyl mode, it stays there until the driver switches it.

[IBCoupe]

The first US manufactured and sold FWD V8 was the 1936 Cord 810 which came with a 289ci V8.

I have wanted one of those since I was 14. Buehrig-designed 1936 retractable headlights ftw!

[HashiriyaS14]

I always liked the Reatta, lol.


I'd buy a 4.5L Allante if there weren't ten million cooler things for the same money. They're reliable and nice looking and have interesting features, but why would I want one over an SBC-swapped XJ, W124 Convertible, or a TR6?

[Gold Digger]

fwd v8?

Eldorado was front drive with an 8.2 liter V8 way back in 1967. Toronado had a 7.5 liter with the same setup in 66. Granted, that was a much different setup. It's still a longitudinally mounted engine, it just drives the front axle instead of the back. Hell, Cord was making FWD I8 and V8 cars back in the 20s and 30s.

Caddies from 1985 until 2002 were all FWD. But those ones were transverse FWD. Sideways V8s. A lot of other GM products use or have used sideways V8s over the last 20 years, too. Like the Buick Lucerne, Impala SS, and Pontiac Bonneville. The Caddies, Buicks, and Pontiacs all used "modern" DOHC engines, but the late Impala SS actually had an LS series (all aluminum) pushrod V8 mounted the wrong way under the hood: the 5.3 liter LS4.

GM even designed the horrible 4.1 liter HT4100 specifically for the smaller, transverse front-drive Cadillacs of the mid-late 80s. That engine was not well-liked, was gutless and unreliable, and did not last long.

Interestingly, despite putting 300 ft-lb V8s sideways in plenty of cars, Cadillac has NEVER had a problem with torque steer like Nissan seems to struggle with. Simple design decisions are the reason for this, and Nissan finally started catching on over the last few years. But it's funny to me that it took them so long to get it right.

The third generation Taurus SHO had a transverse V8, too.

90s Cadillacs are UNSTOPPABLE in the snow because of their powertrain setup.

Also because we're talking about weird FWD sports/luxo cars I thought I'd throw this baby up here:
Buick Reatta

Aaaaaaand, in the Ford corner, the challenger:

The Mercury Capri!

M.O.D.,
Just outta curiosity, which Impala SS are you referring to with a transverse V-8? I am guessing anything after the 1994-1996 models, right? (You'll have to forgive me since I have no idea what American car companies have been making in the last 6 years...lol)

Ugh. I never realized just how similar those two cars are...

Ha, the Mercury "Crapi". that vert was the worst of the bunch. the last one I liked was the original German made V6 from the early 70's.

My dad actually used to have one of those. Believe he said it was a 1974.

Those things were supposedly decent cars in their day.

[MinisterofDOOM]

M.O.D.,
Just outta curiosity, which Impala SS are you referring to with a transverse V-8? I am guessing anything after the 1994-1996 models, right? (You'll have to forgive me since I have no idea what American car companies have been making in the last 6 years...lol)

Just the most recent model ('06+). When GM brought the Impala back in 2000, it was V6-only. The latest model brought the SS badge back as well, with the V8. The V8 didn't sell very well though, and has actually been killed off as an option. I don't think the model as a whole will last much longer anyway. Compared to the rest of the current GM lineup, it's really crude and cheap feeling. Most likely, GM will just kill off the Impala again, and the rear-drive Caprice will replace it.

Stupidly, Police Package '06+ Impalas were all V6-powered, not V8 powered.

[Jesda]

The Impala is the W-body that refuses to die. I bet someone at GM wants to keep it going to make up for the millions (billions?) lost on the platform in the late 80s.

[driverdriver]

Since we're talking Allante's and Reatta's, lets not forget Chrysler haphazard offering to compete in this segment, The Chrysler TC by Maserati.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_TC_by_Maserati

[themadscientist]

I crossed paths with an Impala SS in Japan. I am assuming he had a blower judging by the 8 foot long Paxton sticker on each flank. I smoked him in a rusty 83' Skyline RS trailing smoke, drips and rust flakes in my wake. His buddy in the 454SS truck declined to step up and give it a try. ****in weak punks.

[AZhitman]

First the Seville with the infamous V8-6-4,

Just a minor correction - The 8-6-4 was available in more than just the Seville.

[Bubba1]

First the Seville with the infamous V8-6-4,

Just a minor correction - The 8-6-4 was available in more than just the Seville.

Correct, but combined with a fugly rear, it was not one of Caddy's prouder offerings.

My dad actually used to have one of those. Believe he said it was a 1974.

Those things were supposedly decent cars in their day.

They really were. I drove a couple of them long ago. They were solid, pleasant little sporty coupes, especially the V6. Unfortunately they had major rust issues, so there are not many left now in the US.

I had lost interest in the Capri when they introduced the 2nd generation as a rebadged mustang. I recall a memorable college road trip to Myrtle Beach in a 2nd gen Capri, and the car had some oopmph to it, but it felt like it was going to fall apart at any moment like many other mustangs of that era.

[heliochrome85]

my neighbor back home has 3 of the later ones with northstars.

so cool looking. such a bad option back in the day relative to the Merc SL which it competed with.

[Mr1der]

Yep.

Nothing new. FWD V8's came out in, I believe, 1969... in the Olds Toronado and Cadillac Eldorado twins.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the Northstar engines were in transversely-mounted applications.

the only ones that weren't came in the XLR and the newest STS.

they're showing up in the hotrod world now...it's apparently one of the newer swaps that's showing up.

why, I dunno...I don't really know anything about the northstar either. The Ford mod motor is too as there's a ton of them in junkyards from Vics, Mustangs and T Birds.

[audtatious]

Ugh. I never realized just how similar those two cars are...

Ha, the Mercury "Crapi". that vert was the worst of the bunch. the last one I liked was the original German made V6 from the early 70's.

4U