flohtingPoint wrote:@TMS: I wish I could think like you, but it's impossible in the cutthroat world we live in. You want to see the good in humanity, I see the animals we are. We're inherently selfish, like every other mammal on the planet. Morals and ideals help deter us from self destruction but, when push comes to shove, we're extremely greedy and self centered. The rich get richer and the poor get screwed and society is just fine with it because folks still eat their Taco Bell (made cheap by product of NAFTA) and buy their Nike's (made from cheap by product of sweatshops overseas).
I share your clear view of the nature of humanity. Where we break ranks is, I won't adopt the tactics and methods of those I find immoral. To assume that that means I cannot and do not crush my share of them daily with honorable consistent adherance to a higher standard would be in error.
Now, your assertion that humans and animals share a trait for selfishness is not well-supported. Animals don't kill for sport, they do not display malice in their actions with even against each other.
Deceit is not a natural tendency. Quite to the contray, it's learned behavior. The first time a child is punished for a wrong act they learn that actions have consequences. From that point they will learn that if they can successfully deceive they can avoid that punishment. Now they also have the opportunity to learn that if they hold themselves to a higher standard and don't do wrong things they will not need to deceive. They will internalize the values that with actions come responsibilities and while one strives to do good, we do occasionally do bad. the difference between the two ideas discussed here is an honorable man will accept responsibility for not only the praiseworthy actions he makes, but also the falterings. He will accept the consequences for his actions, not seek to hide it and avoid them.
flohtingPoint wrote:@If you come back to the states and work for the DoD right? That's a lie factory right there Brother, especially if you end up in VA Beach. Everyday documentation gets falsified or just filled out due to lack of caring. Troop progress reports? Firewall 5, cause it looks good on the unit and the supervisor. I already mentioned the budget situation with spending before fiscal year closes. Commander with an "open door policy"? Try using it and see where it gets you.
I have been in and I have served the military in civilian service. I know the climate you are alluding to and I understand that it is pervasive and institutionalized. I seek to fight against such crap and rather than harming me, I would assert that I have enjoyed success. For example, when I was a young NCO, I was charged with the preventative maintenance for a battalion's trucks. We had a procurement problem where the various filters and replacement parts could not be kept on hand in the numbers we needed to ensure readiness.
Now, I could have easily found surrupticious means to get the parts and put the unit at risk if scrutinized. I chose, instead, to identify the underlying problems and develop solutions to get parts in a timely fashion without breaking regulations. It didn't take me long to come up with a perfectly legitimate solution and in a very short time PMs were being processed at a lightning pace.
My leadership, while not bad people, had internalized a mindset similar to yours that a certain level of graft was part of the process. I could have easily jobbed the system, I'm very clever, and I would have had the defacto approval of my boss. I didn't, though; I don't work that way. The leadership wanted readiness, I delivered readiness, at the moment they didn't really care how I did it. lucky for them, I did, because when the FASMO inspection rolled through they suddenly started wondering how I did what I did.
It was too late to hide the process, but the wonderful thing was my process was completely legit. The Meritorious mast in my SRB is my reward, but more importantly the knowledge that I walked straight and true and that my boss was rewarded for the trust he placed in me. The look on his face when he realized I was watching out for him by keeping my actions above board was great. I earned respect. You don't earn respect by being successfully deceitful, at least not in the long run. You earn justifiable suspicion and contempt.
flohtingPoint wrote:@Honestly, I'm indifferent to it, just saying that it's part of life. I dont hold rally's trying to get people to lie more or hand out lying propaganda. If I'm not part of the solution then I'm part of the problem? Then I'm part of about a billion other problems, from the War on Terror to inter-office bickering.
You don't have to chose to advocate for dishonorable behavior, your actions, or more to the point, inactions, makes you as guilty as those who do the deed. Indeed, if you are not part of the solution, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Behavior that is as often challenged and punished is behavior eliminated. You can't control the actions of those above you directly, but you can control your own and you can choose to reject it in your area of responsibility. Is it easy, of course not. Is it worth it? It is to me. Only you can say if the metaphorical blood on your hands is acceptable to you.
When you dance with the devil, the devil don't change. The devil changes you. Mad don't dance.
