J30 Vibration - the saga continues

[VimyJ]

They are michelin Harmony but now that you mention it they have a load rating of 93S (1411@44psi). I did not realize they were s rated.

Man I do not know where to go.

The vibration seems to be from the middle of the car not the outer edges as a tire problem would cause.

Just don't know

I hate to even mention it but I also had vibration problems before I got the new tires. The vibrations didn't seem related to the wheels. I thought for sure that I was going to need some work on the drive train. I even started collecting estimates etc., for the work and parts. I got the new tires and now all vibrations are gone. An S rated tire should not be on a car that can attain speeds of 130 mph. In fact, the dealer shouldn't have sold them to you in the first place.

The good news is that you have eliminated all the other most likely causes of vibration. If tires solve the problem, then you will likely have one of the smoothest J30's in the world. Everybody always assumes that new tires, especially from a quality brand, are going to be good. The bad news is, well, maybe these ones weren't. Like you say, it's speed related. You changed the drive shaft yet the vibration is the same. The tires seem to be the one constant in this saga if memory serves. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[juiceman]

I have my mechanic playing today with the tires, checking balance and rotating to see what happens.

Yes Vimy the tires are the only constant that has not changed for sometime. I went thru Firestone SH30,s too stiff and take too much set, Cooper Lifeliner, never could get those correct, BF Goodrich Touring TA (same that was on the car when I bought it) and now the michelins.

I don't know but the drive shaft did take care of the 25 to 50 vibe so I know this was needed.

Once I get this traightened out I expect that the car will be fine for a long while.

[maxnix]

Quote »I went thru Firestone SH30,s too stiff and take too much set, Cooper Lifeliner, never could get those correct, BF Goodrich Touring TA (same that was on the car when I bought it) and now the michelins.[/quote]These are all a grade below what you should be considering for your car. Might as well complain you couldn't find a good pair of sandals for running a marathon.

[lonallenq45]

If price is an issue, try the Yokohama dBs (http://www.tirerack.com). I have a set on my 92Q and with 15K miles on them they are still going strong. No vibrations, really quite, handle really well in the rain. They are well worth the money and look nice too. Just a suggestion... I got them for $87/tire and with shipping they were about $100/tire, well less than what I would have paid for them locally. A lot less then comparable tires in a different brand locally as well.

[maxnix]

I second Lon Allen's comments for dBs on a Q45. Might look at Bridgestone RE 950 if you don't want a directional tire.

Most Tirerack recommended installers use the Hunter 9700, so you can have rims checked prior to mounting, for extra cost and extra peace of mind. One curb or chug-hole hit can put a rim out of specification, and cause the problems you are having with perfect tires.

[juiceman]

Heres a continuation

Bought the factory drive shaft (thank you Joe at Scottsdale)

Had it installed and wow what a difference. Q45tech, you were right to use factory only parts

The drive line vibration i completely gone, had car up to 75 and no drive line vibe.

I can now feel the vibe in the front end, which I think is related to rotors and pads. Did not use factory and think I have warped rotors up front. I will be checking this out this weekend.

Recap, Vibration started ~30mph. Had been slowly getting worse ove time. Felt in seat and front of car.

Replaced tires, only worked for a short drive. I now know the drive shaft had problems and when the sub frame sagged, it put the car into better alignment until it settled back in. This went for alignment and any other work done where a lift was needed

Replaced exhaust hangers, needed it but no help

Replaced transmission mount. Improved but just changed the vibration.

Replaced motor mounts. Made the vibration worse. This put the whole driveline into proper alignment. The old mounts were very spongy and almost ready to fall apart

Replaced drive shaft with after market shaft and there was an improvment but not enough to give up. Replaced the aftermarket one a second time with minor changes to vibration. The low end improved with these shafts but over 50 it was not improved. The original factory shaft had a bad rear u-joint and a bad center bearing.

Replaced aftermarket shaft with a new factory shaft and this solved the driveline vibration. The mechanic was very impressed with the shaft and kit for install.

My conclusion is that if the drive line has vibrations and the shaft is bad that there is a reason for it. Mine was the rubber companents on this car wer old (as per Q45tech) and needed to be replaced.

I am setting a goal to replace components that have or rely on rubber. Does anyone have suggestions as to what other than what I have already replaced?

This whole thing has been very frustrating but at the end I can feel some satisfaction that at least I tried and that it was a lesson well learned.

Thanks to all of those people who took the time to follow my saga and give me input:D

[Q45tech]

The other problem is tires will rotate on the rims from build up of mounting lube and just plane poor quality in tire bead construction when braking and accelerating!

Even Michelin Pilots.........installed a new set 235/60/15 TWO WEEKS AGO on rear.........perfect 0/0 balance, 300 miles later both out by 11-15 grams, yesterday at 903 miles both out by 10-14 grams [+-] the AMOUNT of balance weights did not change they just moved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is always a problem on used wheels [built up goop] and usually stablizes after a few thousand miles.

Don't think this is abnormal [there was a recent test by Tire Retailer Magazine that showed that 77% of all tires tested were out of balance ONE week after mounting and balancing on used oem rims...............many cheapo under $500 each rims went out in ONE DAY!

Just because you say you got tires balanced what do next week or the week after!

If the vibration is 60-70 mph it is always tires, wheel, brake rotor related even without steping on the brakes. Brake rotors out of spec [0.0028"] will cause a vibration as the high side of rotor hits the pad just like a high spot on non perfect wheel or variable stiffness tire will do it.

Depending on where and how the rotor problem lines up with the wheel/tire problem {position wise 0,45,90,180,270 degrees] the vibration will come and go with minute changes in speed.

The old fashioned on the car balance helped cancel out SOME of the tire/wheel/rotor vibrations........why some use a Hunter 9700 to get the tires and wheels right [lowest radial force imbalance] then do an on the car -adding weights for the rotor hub problems as mounted..........you can of course try all 5 wheel lug positions to see where the vibration is minimal then you need less EXTRA weights to misbalance the balanced tire!

The factory manual has specifications which are not much good if you don't check and measure and abide by them.

A Hunter 9700 is great in the hands of an expert but tires and wheels have to be mounted on the hub [which may be bent and out of spec causing the rotor hat to become bent and out of spec!

Then there is the suspension [king pin/upper links/bushings] loseness beyond spec creates a place [extra space] where perfect tires wheels can move in abnormal ways allowing vibrations.

It amazes me that people will put up with 17,18" tires since 15" are problem enough.

Don't think in your wildest dreams that there is any tire as round or that will stay as round a a Premium Michelin [Michelin makes junk too] but not in the Pilot series! Everything else is second class as far as ride/vibration is concerned. They are not always the best stoppers or handlers just the best made.

[Q451990]

Is there a good way to clean the old mounting lube off of the rims before mounting new tires? At least you'd get a fresh start...

Also on most Nissan OEM Rims I've noticed a grey dot on the outer lip of the wheel - does that indicate anything useful?

Heath

[VimyJ]

Juicey, please consider a move to properly rated quality tires immediatley.

Your pal,

Vimy