Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

[Izento]

That 15w-50 is pretty thick oil. Do you live in southern California? I'd be apprehensive to run something that thick in cooler temps.

The HKS filter is classic! I love it! They don't filter very well, but they keep the big s*** out and are so free-flowing, you'll be fine with the 150mm.

Yeah I live in SoCal, so temp really isn't an issue. The only cold month is January, and that's just at night. I don't daily drive this car anyways.

[Izento]

Another small update. I got around to mounting my fire ext. Nothing crazy and pretty self explanatory. I just used rivnuts to mount. Saw there was a little steel reinforcement plate that didn't go directly into the floorboard, so I decided to mount it there without fear of drilling into something.

Gives a little more confidence that it's mounted in a good spot for fast access should the worst happen to my car. Also I'd never pass tech with it just chilling in the back footwell not tied down.

[Izento]

So...the car blew up on dyno...jk jk.

Here's the Apexi place (technically Rival Auto Works / Unrivaled Tuning)

And here are the numbers. In case pictures disappear like every forum. Made 252 whp/ 222 wtq

Not anywhere near what I wanted. My last tune was at 262 whp / 211 wtq. Two completely different dynos, even one being a dynojet versus what I was just on, a dynapak. I guess if you google "dyno disappointment" there are tons of people lamenting about their experience. Same here, lol. I thought the car would read near 300 with what I've done. Regardless, the car feels great and it's been a very long time I've felt a car this nimble and quick.

Tuner said my timing was way off when I brought it in, too advanced. R35 MAF went in without a hitch. Other than that, all else seemed to be good. Next phase is shifter refresh and just enjoy the car for a bit along with some other odds and ends. Also gotta book a track day.

[dash]

sxoc used to have a lot of ca18 dynos. Peak Hp & Tq ft-lbs almost always pretty equal up to ~330... sorta typical. 4-port motors
mostly stock motors, with t28, t3, mitsu 17c, 16g or even 18g. Stock cam, exh cam to inlet swap or mild 256/260/264
what turbo @ what psi ? 4 port ? fuel type ?
Important thing is you're enjoys the car's performance. Yeah, these things 'scoot'

[float_6969]

I was going to ask the same thing. The build specs matter a ton. Which head? Cams? Turbo?

[float_6969]

Nevermind, I quickly went back through your build. I didn't go through ever page, but it looks like you're on a copcat 3871R with 256/256 Poncams.

It looks like you've mated the cams with stock cam gears. I know the Poncams are SUPPOSED to be PnP, but I have the HKS 264's and they're supposed to be able to be used with the stock cam gears as well, but when you actually measure the cam timing, it's not where the spec sheet says it's supposed to be. I've never put Tomie's in, so maybe they're better. Might be worth at least getting the cam's degree'd to make sure they're timed correctly.

Secondly is the turbo. How much boost are you running? It doesn't look like you're running very much. You'd have to run over 20psi to get the most out of that turbo.

Lastly, if this is an 8 port head, did the tuner adjust the crossover point for the power valves? There's an rough spot in the torque curve that looks like it's not set properly. Changing the cams will absolutely change the activation point for those valves.

[Izento]

Nevermind, I quickly went back through your build. I didn't go through ever page, but it looks like you're on a copcat 3871R with 256/256 Poncams.

It looks like you've mated the cams with stock cam gears. I know the Poncams are SUPPOSED to be PnP, but I have the HKS 264's and they're supposed to be able to be used with the stock cam gears as well, but when you actually measure the cam timing, it's not where the spec sheet says it's supposed to be. I've never put Tomie's in, so maybe they're better. Might be worth at least getting the cam's degree'd to make sure they're timed correctly.

Secondly is the turbo. How much boost are you running? It doesn't look like you're running very much. You'd have to run over 20psi to get the most out of that turbo.

I'm actually running a GT2871r 48 trim 0.64 housing and it's going to 1 bar. I thought that was kind of low tbh since before I was going to 17 psi. As for the cams, I've also heard getting cam gears gets far more benefits than people believe, even with drop-ins like Tomei.

Lastly, if this is an 8 port head, did the tuner adjust the crossover point for the power valves? There's an rough spot in the torque curve that looks like it's not set properly. Changing the cams will absolutely change the activation point for those valves.

Now THAT is interesting. I'm running the jdm 8 port. I've never thought about cams affecting the valve activation.

[Izento]

Also, I have no idea how this thread blew up more, but this is now the most popular CA18 thread on Nico.

I'll definitely need to post a track day video of some sort. I don't have the cleanest build, nor the most hp, but better believe I gotta show more driving. Most of my driving has been touge, which I obviously didn't want to show over the years, but we'll try to get some track footage this year.

Also P.S.S if you're here from esports, I'm the same Izento. I'll beat your a** at LoL as well as driving, as well as sim driving!

[Izento]

Top 1000 player in North America LoL for 2024 and top 100 in Forza 2 Class A Tsukuba. I'm just built different; rarely have you seen it. I'm also the best LoL interviewer and content creator the world has ever seen!

[float_6969]

I'm actually running a GT2871r 48 trim 0.64 housing and it's going to 1 bar. I thought that was kind of low tbh since before I was going to 17 psi. As for the cams, I've also heard getting cam gears gets far more benefits than people believe, even with drop-ins like Tomei.

That particular spec of turbo has a smaller hotside, which is perfect for a smaller engine like the CA18 to make sure it spools up at a reasonable RPM, but it also limits maximum power some. That being said, your power still seems low. I'd expect closer to 275whp at 1 bar. I don't meant to be disrespectful to anyone, but how confident are you in the person who tuned the ECU? Did they actually use the PFC tuning software, or did they just upload a generic map?

Same goes for the power valves. It doesn't look to me like the tuner adjusted those at all. Maybe there's not a table for that in the PFC? Or how do you have them hooked up? Maybe they're not wired/plumbed correctly? Regardless, the power valves don't appear to me to be doing what they're supposed to. I know A LOT of people just abandon them, but unless you're chasing huge peak power numbers, they decrease spool RPM and increase low RPM torque. They absolutely work and are worth keeping and having working properly for any street driven car.

Again, I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone, but I'm really questioning the tune on this.

[Izento]

That particular spec of turbo has a smaller hotside, which is perfect for a smaller engine like the CA18 to make sure it spools up at a reasonable RPM, but it also limits maximum power some. That being said, your power still seems low. I'd expect closer to 275whp at 1 bar. I don't meant to be disrespectful to anyone, but how confident are you in the person who tuned the ECU? Did they actually use the PFC tuning software, or did they just upload a generic map?

Same goes for the power valves. It doesn't look to me like the tuner adjusted those at all. Maybe there's not a table for that in the PFC? Or how do you have them hooked up? Maybe they're not wired/plumbed correctly? Regardless, the power valves don't appear to me to be doing what they're supposed to. I know A LOT of people just abandon them, but unless you're chasing huge peak power numbers, they decrease spool RPM and increase low RPM torque. They absolutely work and are worth keeping and having working properly for any street driven car.

Again, I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone, but I'm really questioning the tune on this.

So, I agree overall that I'm low on power for some reason or another. I actually got around to pulling the map from my ECU and tbh I don't know what I'm looking at whatsoever.

As far as the power valves, I actually don't know if my engine builder removed them or not in the past. I guess that's just a phone call away.

One additional piece of information, I finally ran the car after having it sit since the tune and the idle was terrible. Come to find out, my IACV was unplugged. I plugged that back in, and adjusted the bleeder screw. When I had got the car tuned, the tuner was adjusting the bleeder screw, as I gave him feedback that the BOV was making the car die after activation, even at moderate activation. Come to find out, he had disabled the IACV and was purely trying to operate the car off of the bleeder valve. So after I plugged that back in and adjusted the Power FC idle controls to be about 1k RPMs (previously the car was at about 900 with just bleeder screw), the car does not stumble at all even with a full activation of the BOV.

All-in-all, I don't think the tuner understood idle, he spent about 4 hours on the tune and I have no idea how to judge the veracity of the tune itself, but I do have the file. LMK if you want to see the file Float, as I don't think putting the file for everyone to see is good etiquette.

Also yes, the tuner had an approved box from Apexi themselves (they are literally next door 100 ft away) to tune the ECU. I will also say, the engine has never ran correctly and has always been low on power for one reason or another, and I'm starting to think it's cursed or something, hahaha. I have also pulled the tune via a FC Hako, so I know what was changed (he didn't change my coil ignition dwell times which I was quite proud of).

Also I was thinking of releasing the R35 MAF graph, but I can't release that intellectual property to the internet since it's the hard work of a tuner. The world of tuning is so weird because it's very hush-hush and intentionally kept as black magic. What's funny is that I'm heavily into tech and I could probably grasp it if I had a tutor. Anyways, I absolutely refuse to release the tune to the public for everyone to rip because that ruins the tuner industry, but I'll happily discuss with trusted people.

[Izento]

Also, I'm starting to make stickers for old car forums and stuff. I already made one for Zilvia. If I meet you at a car meet and you have an old school feel, I'll give you a sticker or two. I won't say more than this but I hope you appreciate the sticker. I'll also have some old Nicoclub stickers as well, and you'll def get one if you run a CA18.

If you see an S13 with a Zilvia sticker and a Nicoclub sticker, that's me Izento. I hope to spread a little bit of the old nostalgia. Gotta represent!

[VStar650CL]

Also I was thinking of releasing the R35 MAF graph, but I can't release that intellectual property to the internet since it's the hard work of a tuner. The world of tuning is so weird because it's very hush-hush and intentionally kept as black magic. What's funny is that I'm heavily into tech and I could probably grasp it if I had a tutor. Anyways, I absolutely refuse to release the tune to the public for everyone to rip because that ruins the tuner industry, but I'll happily discuss with trusted people.

It's funny how people think that, but a guy doing a tune on a Nissan OE ECU is actually screwing with Hitachi's intellectual property, and for the most part the data maps being altered are a black art only because the work can't be patented or even copyrighted because it's based on piracy from the get go. So their only protection is to keep their customers in the dark. In some states the EPA could theoretically get them arrested (not that it happens in practice), and when they alter Hitachi's code, which is clearly copyrighted, Hitachi or Nissan could easily press action through USPTO and make it stick.

Toss the factory ECU and get an open source unit like Speeduino if you're truly concerned about intellectual rights. Anything else is just fooling yourself, because somebody's rights have already been violated.

[Izento]

Sorry but I can't just sit with a good conscious of giving the Apexi tune to this forum. I also can't give the hashiriya tune either.

I'm a pirate through-and-through but I can't release things like this. I believe that tuners are necessary and deserve intellectual property. Yarrrr, we can talk in private, but I won't say s*** to you in sunlight.

[Izento]

I'm also the Izento that considers Yamazaki Masayoshi.

[VStar650CL]

Sorry but I can't just sit with a good conscious of giving the Apexi tune to this forum. I also can't give the hashiriya tune either.

I'm a pirate through-and-through but I can't release things like this. I believe that tuners are necessary and deserve intellectual property. Yarrrr, we can talk in private, but I won't say s*** to you in sunlight.

I wasn't suggesting you should, just that no one should get their reasons confused. If it's about being a nice human to other humans whose efforts you have good reason to value (which it is), that's laudable, piracy notwithstanding. If it's about "intellectual property" then you're trying to make a de facto argument that Hitachi's property is worth less than your friends. That's plain wrong (and hypocritical to boot). So please, call it what it is and leave the term "property" out of the discussion. It doesn't belong there.

[float_6969]

He doesn't have a flashed ECU, he has an Apex'i PFC. It's a PnP standalone. So Hitachi's intellectual property has nothing to do with this conversation, as it's not applicable. Regardless, it's not street legal to run a standalone either, so it's all moot IMHO. Plus, AFAIK, there's no legal way to alter the fuel system, so the whole business of engine tuning on street cars isn't legal anyway.

Not sharing the tuner's file is definitely frowned upon. I'm with the tuners on this though. That's why standalones often have password locked tunes. The tuner makes a living building those tunes. For one person to pay once, and then give it away to the internet is taking money away from the tuner. If they don't get enough people in doing tuning, they don't have a business, and then they're not there anymore. So, pay your tuners, don't share the files. If you don't do that, they won't be there when you need them. PLUS, finding PFC experienced tuners is difficult, so I wouldn't do anything that might burn that bridge regardless.

I don't have a PFC or any Apexi' related tuning software, so sending me the file won't do me much good because I can't open it.

Do you have any datalogs or dyno pulls showing the AFR's? If you open the timing map, does it just display degrees of advance? It should be around 15° at idle, and then advance to up around the high 20's at high RPM and low load. The higher the load, the lower the timing, in general.

You have the idle set correctly now. The idle screw on the idle control assembly should set the minimum idle RPM to around 900 with no loads, but the IACV should target around 1000 in the map.

[VStar650CL]

He doesn't have a flashed ECU, he has an Apex'i PFC. It's a PnP standalone. So Hitachi's intellectual property has nothing to do with this conversation, as it's not applicable. Regardless, it's not street legal to run a standalone either, so it's all moot IMHO. Plus, AFAIK, there's no legal way to alter the fuel system, so the whole business of engine tuning on street cars isn't legal anyway.

Apex'i isn't open source either, so from a copyright standpoint, using their tuning software on their ECU software is legal, modifying their ECU software or using anybody else's to modify it isn't. Substitute Apex'i for Hitachi, it's still proprietary.

That all begs the point. I never suggested anybody ruin or expose any tuner's hard work. That's simply being a) nice and b) respectful. However, as someone who has had their "intellectual property" genuinely stolen, it makes me a little nuts when people in the tuning world toss the term around without any cognizance that 95% of it is a) piratical, b) illegal, or in most cases c) both, so it ain't property. Sorry if the term triggers me a little, but it does.

[float_6969]

That makes sense now. I guess I never put any thought into the difference before.

[VStar650CL]

I didn't mean for the horse to be that high, or to redirect this thread. I'll shut up now. Carry on.

[float_6969]

No worries!

[Izento]

I sent you a DM Float (if that system even still works, haha).

Regardless of the tune, I still got other things to do on the car that need to be addressed, so more to come!

[Izento]

Oh, I found an old video of mine in Mexico. This was from like 12 years ago with what I think was about a self-imposed 5.5k rpm limit to learn the power. One of the best touges my state (Mexico? Haha) had to offer back in the day and what I considered my home touge.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Touge/comments ... _road_not/

[Izento]

Another old video from Mexico. This was also around 12 years ago. Keep in mind that I can see through to the next long corner, that's why you see my head turning multiple times.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Touge/comments ... x_ca18det/

[Izento]

So I finally got around to logging my map to see what my tuner had put in and where my ignition timing actually is based on RPM. I figured it can't be that hard to determine what these numbers actually mean on my map and how it corresponds with ignition timing. I've been building computers since I was 10 and took multiple classes in computer programming, it can't be that hard, right?

I also figured out a way to show you guys what I'm talking about without giving away the tuner's secret sauce. Like I said, I refuse to give away my tune as I think that's wrong and ruins the tuning industry as a whole.

So this graph kind of shows it all. Rows are load, columns are RPM. Keep in mind, load is a bit arbitrary as it's based on mathematical ideas of AFR, AFM voltage, etc, but that's how they have it, so don't get too hung up that load is 10,000 etc. This is at full boost in third gear. I'm almost at full load and my car is at roughly 14 degrees ignition timing. The car would probably go one row lower, which is at 10 degrees timing (not pictured). I obviously can't go 4th gear full throttle, full boost, 7200 rpms as I'd be going 1xx mph on the road. Not a good idea.

With that said, here is the stock CA18 map from FC Hako. No harm in sharing this one.

Ignition timing is significantly larger than my map. Even at my load cell, it's pushing about 24 timing, whereas I'm pushing 14 (but more boost).

So all-in-all, my car isn't running horrific timing like I thought it was (in the single digits). The rest of my map looks to be contingencies based on the absolute worst conditions like going uphill, full boost, on a hot summer day. Very unlikely.

So I'm putting this to rest that my ignition timing is low yes, but not absurdly low. I'll be looking to boroscope my cylinders and see what's up, and I need to do my timing belt within the near future as it's about that time and we'll see if the car was off timing by a tooth. The tuner said he checked the timing and it aligned, just that the CAS wheel was off a lot.

--------------------------------------------------

Anyways, hope everyone learned something about tuning, cause I know I did. And yes, I'm a little in over my head; I'm humble enough to know, but smart enough to be confident in my solutions. There's nothing I can't learn.

[Izento]

I'll reiterate, I don't think that since I have low ignition timing it's because my tuner had no idea what he was doing. It's something to do with my gas, build, etc. So no disrespect to him at all. I just want to make that clear. I'd rather have my s*** run than blow up.

[float_6969]

Wait, why is your CAS off? That sounds like the cam timing is off a tooth. If so, that would explain the poor power. Your CAS should sit right about in the middle of the adjustment range. If it's way off to one side, that's a tell-tale sign that the cam timing is off.

It COULD be a shifted spline for the CAS in the cam. It's not unheard of, but I wouldn't call it common either.

[Izento]

So I went ahead and bought my shifter finally. I was debating for the longest time what shifter to get. For those that haven't been keeping track on this build thread, my current stock S13 shifter has somewhat stripped threads, so the shift knob isn't holding well on it. So it's a good excuse to get a different shifter.

With that said, I personally don't like short shifters that much. I used to be a valet in a past life and every time I'd hop in a car with a short shifter, I never liked the position nor the small amount of travel required to go from gear to gear. Feels like there's no emotion in it, if that makes sense. BMWs were pretty notorious for this in my experience.

So I was going to get the B&M shifter given that it's gotten so many good reviews in the past, but I was kind of afraid it would be too short for my liking. So I've decided to go Nismo!

Part # 32839-RN540
https://www.nismo.co.jp/products/catalo ... l#page=141

This is the Nismo Solid Shifter and it's supposed to be 10% shorter than stock, but it hasn't changed the fulcrum position, which I think means technically it's not a short shifter. The center handle is supposed to be filled with a stiffer material than rubber (not sure what it is). Now in hindsight, I probably should have gotten the Quick Shift, which is supposed to be 25% shorter and actually change the fulcrum, but I thought it wouldn't fit given it says its for the R32/33/34, but then I learned those shifters work for S13/14/15 as well. Whatever, I might not have liked it anyways, and also I gotta keep in mind that the notorious Nissan 3rd gear syncro might not like that, hahaha.

I'm still waiting on some parts such as the actual shift knob and GK Tech Shifter Springs so that I can change the side-to-side feel, which should really freshen up the experience. At this point, you drive a manual in 2025 for the experience, not because it's faster than a paddle. Why not make it feel crisp and satisfying? Like I said, I think manuals are for the emotion, so you should try to evoke that in whatever way possible.

[VStar650CL]

I'm still waiting on some parts such as the actual shift knob and GK Tech Shifter Springs so that I can change the side-to-side feel, which should really freshen up the experience. At this point, you drive a manual in 2025 for the experience, not because it's faster than a paddle. Why not make it feel crisp and satisfying? Like I said, I think manuals are for the emotion, so you should try to evoke that in whatever way possible.

Big +1. It's a control thing, seat of the pants G's. Ask any airline pilot about getting passengers safely where they want to go and they'll likely tell you they love the automation. Ask them what they fly for fun and it's probably a Pitts S-2C or a vintage Mustang, stick-and-rudder to the max. Stick-and-clutch ain't really any different.

[Izento]

So I got some parts in the mail.

Tomei duracon shift knob and GK Tech shifter springs to go along with the Nismo solid shifter.

Now, I almost had ordered a custom shift knob that was going to be on the very heavy side, but I was reading around a lot and decided that it's literally the opposite of what I want. I wanted good throw, but notchyness at the same time. I heard that lightweight shift knobs give a much more notchy feeling, along with allowing you to feel more of the gear change, syncro, and vibrations. That mostly sounded good to me (although the vibrations sounds like it would get annoying). I decided to go with the Tomei unit as it's one of the lightest, and they even show you on their website the weight of a stock S13 shift knob, and then a GR86 one, and then the Tomei units. If anyone doesn't know, the GT86 and GR86 have some of the best shifter feel on the market, hands down. I've got to drive plenty of GT86s and they feel incredibly crisp, and I think it's thanks to the lightweight shift knob.

Anyways, I went with the Tomei Duracon L, cause it closes the gap between the shift knob and the boot a little better than the S.

Climbed under the car and popped out the shifter spring. It's a hexagon filler looking bolt at the tail end of the transmission, right near where the driveshaft inserts. Left is the GKTech spring, right is the stock spring. You can't really compress the GKtech with your fingers that much, whereas the stock spring is pretty light and can easily squish it with your fingers.

GK Tech springs come with like 3 different stiffness springs. I chose the heaviest ones because racecar.

Now it was time to hop in the car and take out my old shifter. There's a snap ring inside which holds the entire shifter in place. Make sure to buy a pair of straight nose snap ring pliers to do this.

The whole thing comes out, along with that plastic piece. Notice that I have a brass bushing for my shifter. That was aftermarket I got a long time ago from FRSport I believe. I swapped that order to the Nismo shifter. Btw, that little plastic bushing is a pain to get off of the Nismo shifter.

Here's how she sits now.

Here's an updated interior pic.


IMPRESSION!

Side-to-side
So this is a night-and-day difference. The side-to-side feel is unworldly. The shifter immediately pushing back to neutral position, and it also fights you when you're trying to go left or right on the gearstick to shift it into 1-2 or 5-R. There's A LOT of resistance.

Gear shifting & feeling
As for going into gear, the shift is definitely shorter, but not by a ton. The most significant difference is 3rd. It feels a little too short of a throw for me, but maybe I'll get used to it. Now the actual feel of shifting is much more direct and deliberate. You have to force it in the gate a little more, and you definitely feel the syncros as you slide through the gate, an incredibly visceral feeling. Each shift gives you confidence that you've put it in gear, but I think it's still going to take me a while to feel comfortable going fast on the gear change as the side to side movement had me catch the middle of the gate on 3rd once.

Knob
The actual shift knob itself feels a bit too thin for my liking (hehe). With the stock S13 shift knob, you can shift from the top, with the entire shifter directly below your palm. With this Tomei one, you can't do that. The top part is completely cylindrical and too thin to grab onto. This is the part where I'm hesitant to call this knob great. I love the feeling of it transferring all the commotion of the transmission, but the hand position is going to get a lot of practice since I've only driven with the stock knob. Not sure if I'll ever like it, but I'll try it for a bit.

----------

Overall, a wonderful upgrade. The springs are a really good addition to the refresher. The Nismo shifter itself does feel like it's shortened the throw a little, and the knob I'm still up in the air on, but it is very cheap so I'm not really concerned about just getting a different one if need be.

Anyone on the fence about this upgrade should definitely move this higher on your list of to-do modifications. I think this is the perfect amount of throw for the most part, has great feeling, side-to-side is wonderful and makes it feel like a 2020+ car. More to come.