ITT, MinisterofDOOM's blood vessels burst

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krash
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http://www.thetorquereport.com/2012/09/ ... +Report%29
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Increasing fuel economy and emissions standards have prompted Infiniti to kill off the V8 engine in its future vehicles. Currently Infiniti offers V8 engines in its FX crossover, QX SUV and M sedan, but the future models will have to make sure with turbocharged six-cylinder engines that will offer V8-like performance.

Infiniti's global president Johan de Nysschen recently confirmed the plans, "I don't think any car that is on Infiniti drawing boards from here onwards we should expect a V8 to be included in that plan."

Infiniti's competitors like BMW and Mercedes-Benz have not announced any plans to discontinue their V8 engines, but de Nysschen predicts that eventually the V8 will disappear.

"Powertrains have to have a relatively long lifecycle, and we have to think about 15 years from today and the future unquestionably is going to see the downsizing of engines. There will be much focus on fuel consumption and emissions, and horsepower figures are going to come down. The 600 horsepower engines that you see today that are regrettably rare - those are the real top performance cars right now - will become extinct."
:frown:


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Jesda
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Just when I thought Infiniti had more guts than Cadillac which killed off the Northstar V8 last year.

RIP.

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Kompresshun
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Grumble, Grumble. :headexplodes:

Seriously Nissan? Just when you start to redeem yourself a little, you go and do something stupid again... Haven't they learned anything from Ford yet? Oh wait... everybody thinks Ford is smart by using boosted V6's in place of V8's and think they're crapping rainbows now, along with getting excellent fuel economy.

*Waits patiently for the MoD rant of the decade* :popcorn:

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A QX with a boosted 6? Lol. Not seeing how that will work out well. Guess no one will be towing in luxury with the Infiniti brand. Boosted 6 != V8 performance.

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krash
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AppleBonker wrote:A QX with a boosted 6? Lol. Not seeing how that will work out well. Guess no one will be towing in luxury with the Infiniti brand. Boosted 6 != V8 performance.
This is what I was thinking. I'm really going to miss the M45 also, I've driven a few and I'm quite fond of them.

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AppleBonker
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Doesn't Nissan still have to develop and maintain some form of V8? Unless they're killing the Titan I don't see any other option. If you've already got the VK in the Titan, why wouldn't you offer it as an option in at least the Armada and QX? They're all pretty similar vehicles. I don't see how it can be a cost issue.

Also, I don't see how a turbo 6 would be much more fuel efficient in the QX. The mileage shouldn't be enough of a difference to throw off efficiency standards. Then again, I don't really know what the fuel efficiency regulations state. If, on the other hand, the argument is for efficiency as a selling point, I don't know how many people searching for a $70k+ land-yacht are actually concerned with a couple mpgs.

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I bet this is what MoD looks like right now.

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alms24sebring
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Weaker motors and CVTs, woot.

Does no one else like RDX's or turboed Forrester. Is it right to say that the RDX upgraded to a v6 (only) in later models? Not to me... I would definantly mess around with a turboed acura for fun.

Also, those were nice cars that got murdered.

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I have a theory. Carlos Goshn got into a car accident, right?

I bet he hit an old gypsy, Japan is overrun with them, of course. The dude brushed his face and said "lamer."

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CVT transmissions, no more V8s, gizmo-R, it all adds up!

If he would just apologize, the old gypsy might work some hoodoo and put the curse in a pie.

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Carlos invites the CEO of Hyundai over for dinner and gets him to eat the pie and thus take on the curse.

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Hyundai is now cursed and their cars become lame as hell. Wait, maybe Carlos already gave him the pie? :confused:

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Modern Nissan really are idiots. They remind me of mid-90s GM: every SINGLE time they seem to be finally getting something right, they kill it off. They finally replaced the terrible, ancient, hateful 4-speed auto with a half-decent 5 speed only to universally replace it with CVTs everywhere. And they build a DOHC V8 that struggles with reliability issues, only to turn around and add amazing technology, not only solving the reliability problems but also making HUGE torque and power with decent fuel economy. Now, just TWO YEARS into the engine's lifespan, they decide to kill it off?! Who the Hell is in charge of R&D at Nissan? Isn't someone cursing and breaking skulls over all that wasted investment?

The M56 is a fantastic car. Who the Hell doesn't want 425 ft-lb with those looks and that level of comfort?! And at that price!!! The FX50 is a little confusing (why is it not an FX56?!). The QX sells like gold-plated chocolate covered bacon.

There's a bigger problem, though: The VQ is NOT a viable replacement, even with boost. Unless Nissan has a BRAND NEW V6 ready to unveil, they're dooming themselves. Mopar's Pentastar and GM's LFX are in a whole different UNIVERSE from the aging VQ. CHRYSLER IS BUILDING A BETTER V6 THAN NISSAN. Pretty sad.

Nissan is clearly being run by directionless morons. Probably seven or eight directionless morons, none of whom ever communicate. That's the only explanation for the kind of nonsense we're seeing from them these days.

Of course, it's not all Nissan's fault. American buyers are trying as hard as ever to compete with a bag of hammers on the intelligence front. EVERY TIME I see an Infiniti on the road, it's the pansy-a** V6 version. FX35s everywhere (with big shiny wheels to make sure it gets noticed). Wusstastic all-wheel-drive M35s and M37s. If no one buys the V8s, Nissan can't be expected to see any appeal in selling them.
Jesda wrote:Just when I thought Infiniti had more guts than Cadillac which killed off the Northstar V8 last year.

RIP.
Modern GM is doing a pretty good job of acting like 90's GM, too. Head studs are fixed, let's kill it off! It's like the Fiero, or the Impala, or any of a thousand other GM gaffs ALL OVER AGAIN. That said, they could almost just glue two more cylinders on their V6 and still come out ahead. Well, once we make it through the teething years, anyway.

HOW CAN IT BE THIS HARD TO RUN A CAR COMPANY?! Nissan is shoving CVTs down the world's collective throat. Cadillac kills off BOTH their flagships without a replacement and follows it up with a product THEY ADMIT is not worthy of the badge. Infiniti is killing off the V8. Ford is determined to lie to the world about their Ecoboost fuel economy while selling the fattest cars ever imagined in my most fevered nightmares, and hoping no one notices that they've faced their engines the wrong way. Hyundai has decided that a rattly, buzzy little turbo four is a sufficient replacement for a V6 and completely took the choice away from the consumer. CAN'T ANYONE DO ANYTHING RIGHT?! FOR HELL'S SAKE, PUT ME IN CHARGE OF ANY OF THESE COMPANIES FOR A MONTH AND I'LL CHANGE THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD.

I'm disgusted with everyone. There's not a single damn car company that hasn't pissed me the Hell off. I have NO loyalties anymore. Everyone's a loser. The only good car is used. I hope the whole damn industry collapses on itself and explodes.

If you'll excuse me, I'll be out driving my old, V8 powered performance sedan with traction control turned off and trying to forget how much everything sucks. But that's hard to do when I'm surrounded by Hybrid badges and Turbo badges and idiot people who buy Jettas (the latter is unrelated to the rest of this rant, but remains true and a source of stress).

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GM still sells crate motors. Power to the enthusiast!

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Mr1der
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They're following the footsteps of the first US established luxury Japanese brand. Smart move Nissan...

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Rex
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Glad to know you can still count on Chris :) ... and I agree with most of his commentary.


MinisterofDOOM wrote:...idiot people who buy Jettas (the latter is unrelated to the rest of this rant, but remains true and a source of stress).
Does that still count if it's someone simply looking for an affordable diesel vehicle?

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MinisterofDOOM wrote:Modern Nissan really are idiots. They remind me of mid-90s GM: every SINGLE time they seem to be finally getting something right, they kill it off. They finally replaced the terrible, ancient, hateful 4-speed auto with a half-decent 5 speed only to universally replace it with CVTs everywhere. And they build a DOHC V8 that struggles with reliability issues, only to turn around and add amazing technology, not only solving the reliability problems but also making HUGE torque and power with decent fuel economy. Now, just TWO YEARS into the engine's lifespan, they decide to kill it off?! Who the Hell is in charge of R&D at Nissan? Isn't someone cursing and breaking skulls over all that wasted investment?

The M56 is a fantastic car. Who the Hell doesn't want 425 ft-lb with those looks and that level of comfort?! And at that price!!! The FX50 is a little confusing (why is it not an FX56?!). The QX sells like gold-plated chocolate covered bacon.

There's a bigger problem, though: The VQ is NOT a viable replacement, even with boost. Unless Nissan has a BRAND NEW V6 ready to unveil, they're dooming themselves. Mopar's Pentastar and GM's LFX are in a whole different UNIVERSE from the aging VQ. CHRYSLER IS BUILDING A BETTER V6 THAN NISSAN. Pretty sad.

Nissan is clearly being run by directionless morons. Probably seven or eight directionless morons, none of whom ever communicate. That's the only explanation for the kind of nonsense we're seeing from them these days.

Of course, it's not all Nissan's fault. American buyers are trying as hard as ever to compete with a bag of hammers on the intelligence front. EVERY TIME I see an Infiniti on the road, it's the pansy-a** V6 version. FX35s everywhere (with big shiny wheels to make sure it gets noticed). Wusstastic all-wheel-drive M35s and M37s. If no one buys the V8s, Nissan can't be expected to see any appeal in selling them.
Jesda wrote:Just when I thought Infiniti had more guts than Cadillac which killed off the Northstar V8 last year.

RIP.
Modern GM is doing a pretty good job of acting like 90's GM, too. Head studs are fixed, let's kill it off! It's like the Fiero, or the Impala, or any of a thousand other GM gaffs ALL OVER AGAIN. That said, they could almost just glue two more cylinders on their V6 and still come out ahead. Well, once we make it through the teething years, anyway.

HOW CAN IT BE THIS HARD TO RUN A CAR COMPANY?! Nissan is shoving CVTs down the world's collective throat. Cadillac kills off BOTH their flagships without a replacement and follows it up with a product THEY ADMIT is not worthy of the badge. Infiniti is killing off the V8. Ford is determined to lie to the world about their Ecoboost fuel economy while selling the fattest cars ever imagined in my most fevered nightmares, and hoping no one notices that they've faced their engines the wrong way. Hyundai has decided that a rattly, buzzy little turbo four is a sufficient replacement for a V6 and completely took the choice away from the consumer. CAN'T ANYONE DO ANYTHING RIGHT?! FOR HELL'S SAKE, PUT ME IN CHARGE OF ANY OF THESE COMPANIES FOR A MONTH AND I'LL CHANGE THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD.

I'm disgusted with everyone. There's not a single damn car company that hasn't pissed me the Hell off. I have NO loyalties anymore. Everyone's a loser. The only good car is used. I hope the whole damn industry collapses on itself and explodes.

If you'll excuse me, I'll be out driving my old, V8 powered performance sedan with traction control turned off and trying to forget how much everything sucks. But that's hard to do when I'm surrounded by Hybrid badges and Turbo badges and idiot people who buy Jettas (the latter is unrelated to the rest of this rant, but remains true and a source of stress).

BRAVO!! So well said there is nothing I could add to share my feelings, but I will anyway. My dislike of bean-counters and lawyers grows everyday because they cause this world to be more and more bland everyday and I have grown tired of bland. I want cars to stir my blood like they used to. Aside from my wife's recent Kia Koup purchase I couldn't be more bored and disgusted at what is being put on the market. Nothing but cheap pieces of crap with enough gaudy lines and chrome to make me want to puke. I see right through the s***...cheap pieces of plastic crap designed to look exciting. Many years ago didn't need to look exciting, they just were. Timeless designs, what ever happened to that concept? I recently rode in a 1956 Belaire Hardtop 2dr and something dawned on me...seems Americans had it better back then by far. Everything felt real and substantial. Things seemed more intelligent, maybe because the clientele weren't brain-dead stupid like today's society. Because too many people have their iphone wired to their a** car commercials mostly talk about connectivity and barely mention the car anymore. Sorry I am charged up because I just got back from Watkins Glen where I saw no less than 275 Mustangs from '64 to today racing on the original track through the city and it reinforced my feelings about new cars...they are ugly and boring! People are ugly, vian and boring. Not only that, today's cars are far from environmentally friendly, most parts are replaced not repaired. Techs are dumber then ever because 'tech-line' tells them what to do 90% of the time. They don't even know why they are replacing a part, they just know a computer told them to do it. So sad it's not even close to being funny. We toss more un-recalled warranty parts in the trash because the OEM only asks for some back, why throw the stuff out on a scrap report? You can spout ad nausea about MPGs but how about increasing the shelf life of the car if you are so damned concerned about the environment, something that lasts longer than 10 years might be a start. Build repairable cars again, I'd be most interested in that. More and more cars replace the entire control arm as an assembly before just replacing the ball joint which was the only bad part. It's wasteful! So we have ugly, boring and wasteful. I'll stick to pre-OBD cars thanks.

On another topic Hyundai hasn't killed their V8. In fact they have expanded upon the idea, we recently sold a V8 Genesis R-Spec that a customer special ordered. Seems that some Genesis and Equus owners have the right idea. And even Kia has started shipping cars with V8's...though not to the brain-dead USA customers yet. We are going to miss all these things when they are gone. Real trucks and V8 engines have a place and can not be replaced by the labotimized CUV.

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Rex wrote:
Does that still count if it's someone simply looking for an affordable diesel vehicle?
No. Kinda.
Limited choice doesn't make a bad choice good. Jetta diesels are LOUD and smelly. I've stopped next to Jettas at lights that drowned out F350s with their unpleasant clacking. Affordable? Sure. Diesel? Definitely. Desirable? Not even when it's the ONLY choice.

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I agree most about being repairable and the ball joint to CA reference. It is stupid and wasteful. Not only that but whats wrong with separate pieces bolted/pressed on when they need to be. Its easier and simpler, not only that but it keeps part and labor costs down. Some of the labor times are rediculous too. Also I hate the need for so many underhood plastic covers. Unfortunatly thats a major downfall if you ask me of the technology in building cars now days. God I hate Volkswagens.

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MinisterofDOOM wrote:Not even when it's the ONLY choice.
I guess Mercedes doesn't make Diesels anymore?

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To this thread I add:
BMW pumping engine noise into the cab via the speakers. Why not just remove some sound deadening? Word has it the sound is manipulated to sound better because they don't like the current engine noise.

To quote Paul McCartney, "Let it be". If it isn't any good, let it be. People will appreciate the old ones that much more. Hell, maybe some old bastards will like the new one better.

Still, variety is the spice of life. Let it be! Fake anything is bad.

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MinisterofDOOM wrote:
Rex wrote:
Does that still count if it's someone simply looking for an affordable diesel vehicle?
No. Kinda.
Limited choice doesn't make a bad choice good. Jetta diesels are LOUD and smelly. I've stopped next to Jettas at lights that drowned out F350s with their unpleasant clacking. Affordable? Sure. Diesel? Definitely. Desirable? Not even when it's the ONLY choice.

I agree that the old Jetta diesels are loud,smelly, and slow. But the new VW diesels are quiet, mostly smoke free and surprisingly torquey. I've had students at the track with them. I was surprised how good those diesels were. You should check one out. :dblthumb:

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The new Passat TDI is a nice car. Limo-like rear seats, a reasonably nice interior (not as nice as past Passats but certainly on par with Malibu and its nicer competitors), and a urea diesel that's smooth and torquey.

And it costs less.

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Jesda wrote:The new Passat TDI is a nice car. Limo-like rear seats, a reasonably nice interior (not as nice as past Passats but certainly on par with Malibu and its nicer competitors), and a urea diesel that's smooth and torquey.

And it costs less.
That joint is off the heezy fo sheezy. My dad was very close to getting one, but then decided he didn't want a car payment. He picked up a nice 86 300sdl instead.
Dattebayo wrote:
MinisterofDOOM wrote:Not even when it's the ONLY choice.
I guess Mercedes doesn't make Diesels anymore?
MinisterofDOOM wrote: Affordable?
This is all in New car context.
alms24sebring wrote: Also I hate the need for so many underhood plastic covers. Unfortunatly thats a major downfall if you ask me of the technology in building cars now days.
How are plastic engine covers a major downfall of technology?

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Rex
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Dattebayo wrote:
MinisterofDOOM wrote:Not even when it's the ONLY choice.
I guess Mercedes doesn't make Diesels anymore?
I'm not looking at anything new, more like 2004/2005. That does bring the Jeep Liberty CRD into the possibilities, but I'd prefer a car over a truck-like ride height. The Jeep used an MB 4cyl diesel, IIRC.

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Dattebayo wrote:
MinisterofDOOM wrote:Not even when it's the ONLY choice.
I guess Mercedes doesn't make Diesels anymore?
They do, they've also improved significantly and they've begun importing them again. Problem is they're not old enough (ie cheaply priced) for many folks to consider them.

Europe has already begun embracing diesels more and more. Once the weird infatuation with unnecessarily complex hybrids in this country wanes, I can see diesels getting much more popular.

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MinisterofDOOM wrote:Modern Nissan really are idiots. They remind me of mid-90s GM: every SINGLE time they seem to be finally getting something right, they kill it off. They finally replaced the terrible, ancient, hateful 4-speed auto with a half-decent 5 speed only to universally replace it with CVTs everywhere.
It's not just Nissan.
0-60 Mag wrote:Which we could live with…if it weren’t connected to a CVT transmission. Yup, that’s right—Toyota reportedly plans on giving their new “sports car” the same sort of powertrain they stick in the Lexus RX400h or the GS450h.
Maybe it's something in the water over there. Maybe TMS can go in there with some Greg House M.D. bedside manor and straighten them out.

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Hey, Nissan. You're doing it wrong:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-a8%E2 ... ure-as-v6/

V8 fuel economy is what? WHAT? TALK LOUDER PLEASE! I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF ALL YOUR BITCHING!

I've been saying it for years.
I've been RIGHT for years.

Small V8s are the way to go. Small V8s produce the best combination of all desirable traits. 4 liters seems like a pretty magical spot, too. Add boost and go from there. (I am not against boost. I'm simply against the ignorant and mislead idea that boost = magical fuel economy with no sacrifices, and that gluing it onto average 4-bangers is the future of every car ever). My 4 liter gets 29mpg highway. It makes gobs of torque down low. It makes gobs of torque up high. It makes gobs of torque in the middle. It's silkier than the finest actual silk. It sounds amazing, even when severely over-muffled. It revs happily, and idles LOW. It is a far better option than any turbo 6 or turbo 4 would ever dream of being. Whatever those two do well, they make up for by doing something else poorly. My V8 does not do things poorly. It is not a compromise. Boosted sixes in Ms and QXs are.

Of course, there's more to fuel economy than just an engine, and Audi and Jaguar understand this. There's more Aluminum in that A8 than fifteen M56s. Which is why, despite being much larger, the A8 offers better fuel economy. Decreasing cylinder count is not the only successful way to increase fuel economy. And it's not one of the most desirable, either. Why not improve elsewhere before falling back on downsizing?

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krash
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MinisterofDOOM wrote: Of course, there's more to fuel economy than just an engine, and Audi and Jaguar understand this. There's more Aluminum in that A8 than fifteen M56s. Which is why, despite being much larger, the A8 offers better fuel economy. Decreasing cylinder count is not the only successful way to increase fuel economy. And it's not one of the most desirable, either. Why not improve elsewhere before falling back on downsizing?
I don't think Nissan is ignorant to this, nissan-s-3-pronged-mpg-attack-plan-t563189.html

But like Madscientist said, I think Ghosn has a gyspy curse on him and can't help but make dumb decisions. Oh well, poodle-owning metrosexuals everywhere will rejoice.

On a side note, I know this is a render and a lot of people have probably seen it but DAMN look at that body!

Image

Why can't they do things like this instead of neutering powerful motors and making murano cabriolets?

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MinisterofDOOM wrote:Why not improve elsewhere before falling back on downsizing?
I'd suspect most of it has to do with cost. Getting 30+ mpg out of a small 4 is a lot cheaper than doing the same out of a small 8. Even if they used the exact same technology, the 8 has more parts, more metal and more machining that is required. They are also generally heavier. There is no doubt that there are places an 8 excels. But cheap and high efficiency aren't at the top of that list.

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krash wrote: Why can't they do things like this instead of neutering powerful motors and making murano cabriolets?
Because this is not the Nissan that built Datsun, this is Nissan owned by Renault.

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Sigh ...

I bought my first Q45 in March of 1991, my second Q45 in Aug of 1998 and my current M45 in Sep of 2003. All three cars were V-8 engines.

I have been a loyal Infiniti purchaser and enthusiastic owner of their cars for more than 20 years now.

But ... if there isn't a V-8 Infiniti sedan available the next time I am out to buy a car some years from now, it will not be an Infiniti in my garage after that purchase.

So, I hope some rational people at Infiniti are reading this thread.

Z

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Just my two cents in all of this.

First would you expect any less from a company that thinks that people would rather have a Juke GTR than a small affordable rwd sports coupe. Would you expect any less from a company that thinks that the next itteration of the Z needs to be smaller and fitted with a turbo four banger. Personally I think Nissan has lost their effing minds, heres an idea, just make a new S chassis watch your sales skyrocket, oh and stop forcing everyone in buying a craptastic slushbox with paddle shifters.

Secondly, Americans despise diesels, they think that diesels are fuel guzzling smelly loud clackity dinosaurs best left to big rigs and monster HD trucks used by cities and construction workers. The mindset of the average Americans when diesels are concernex is stuck in the 70's. Meanwhile in the rest of the world diesels are the preferred engine for the thrifty set, All the majors offer diesel versions including Jaguar, BMW, and MB, hell I think Ferrari is developing a diesel engine after having Audi crush them for years at Le Mans. Diesels are more economical and fuel efficient than gas, plus it can run on used cooking oil, compressed nitrogen and propane for even better fuel economy. Diesels can go for 700 -800 miles on one tank when driven properly, theirs not a single gas, hybrid, or electric car that can claim those numbers.

Finally, this push for the 50mpg lineup is going to kill all V8's and suck any form of life and soul out of all the new cars coming to the market.


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