On the mag thing, can you have pre bans?

In MA we still have the AWB as well but i'm not sure if you guys have more s*** tacked on

If you have a mag made after Sept. 13, 1994 is a "post ban" mag which those of us still in ban states still have to deal with 10rds or less.

The pre ban mags are made before the AWB in 94. They should be legal high caps. Guns like the XD don't have pre ban mags available because they weren't around then. One reason a few reason i didn't get an M&P.

If you want to know how to tell if its a pre ban glock mag or not PM me

Its A felony to posses post ban mags in a ban state....

Glock 20 = Awesomeness. Go for it!

Start with a 10mm Auto. Switch to a 40S&W or 357sig for $100 and 10 minutes time to swap the barrel. Can't beat that with a stick!

I would only buy a 10 is you or someone you know reloads. That said I looking for a 29 but there hard to come buy up here because dealers can't transfer 3rd gen and up glocks to people. face palm ma

Wait, why can't they transfer them?

And yes, factory 10mm = 40 short & weak power. It's ridiculous.

You either spend an arm and a leg to buy full power loads or you reload.

I reload.

What would Sonny Crockett do?

Cause MA sucks there is a s*** of handguns that we cannot buy new from a dealer, but you can buy them FTF from someone who moves to MA and owns them. retarded. There are two lists/rosters and Attorney General consumer safety/protection bs and another roster. A gun has to pass/be on both lists in order for it to be transferred to you by a dealer.

PoorManQ45 wrote:Wait, why can't they transfer them?

And yes, factory 10mm = 40 short & weak power. It's ridiculous.

You either spend an arm and a leg to buy full power loads or you reload.

I reload.

As a "reloader," you should realize that even the full-zoot 10mm Auto rounds don't have the Marshall and Sanow one-shot stop record the .40 "Short & Weak" has. In fact, the only round with a better M&S is the .357 mag. Great round, the .40 S&W. In fact the full strength 10mm has a nasty habit of overpenetrating badguys. Not a great choice. Good for blowing the s*** out of boars though, as The Nuge is so fond of.

Not to mention, recommending a 10mm to a beginner ain't too bright. You're looking at more recoil, larger guns, and costlier ammo for what? Compensation for your tiny wangus?

I may be getting a little overzealous here, but how do you guys feel about tactical lights and laser sights? I'm more interested in a laser sight, than a tac light. Maybe both?

Stay away from the recoil guide rod lasers.

krimsonviper wrote:I may be getting a little overzealous here, but how do you guys feel about tactical lights and laser sights? I'm more interested in a laser sight, than a tac light. Maybe both?

I'd spend that money on ammo. Unless you want to be some mall-ninja visit the range twice a year with your tacticool "operator" pistol wannabe.

snwbrdr435 wrote:Stay away from the recoil guide rod lasers.

What?

Urabus GodofTraction wrote:

krimsonviper wrote:I may be getting a little overzealous here, but how do you guys feel about tactical lights and laser sights? I'm more interested in a laser sight, than a tac light. Maybe both?

I'd spend that money on ammo. Unless you want to be some mall-ninja visit the range twice a year with your tacticool "operator" pistol wannabe.

Dude, it's against the Zed Heads!

krimsonviper wrote:

snwbrdr435 wrote:Stay away from the recoil guide rod lasers.

What?

Not that, this.

Those look like a PIA the install and change. What's the real reason behind the hate?

Urabus GodofTraction wrote: As a "reloader," you should realize that even the full-zoot 10mm Auto rounds don't have the Marshall and Sanow one-shot stop record the .40 "Short & Weak" has. In fact, the only round with a better M&S is the .357 mag. Great round, the .40 S&W. In fact the full strength 10mm has a nasty habit of overpenetrating badguys. Not a great choice. Good for blowing the s*** out of boars though, as The Nuge is so fond of.

Not to mention, recommending a 10mm to a beginner ain't too bright. You're looking at more recoil, larger guns, and costlier ammo for what? Compensation for your tiny wangus?

M&S data is not valid on a round that was only used for a couple of years.

Bullet designs have improved to allow for more controlled and quicker expansion.

The only problem a newb would have with a 10mm is failure to eject due to limp wrist. If taught properly this should not be an issue. The first pistol I ever shot was a Ruger Security Six 357 mag shooting BuffaloBore 158 full power loads. Say flinch? Practice makes perfect.

A Glock 20 with a non-CA magazine is simply awesome when combined with full power loads. What's very cool is that for $100 you can buy the conversion kit to change to a 40s&w or a 357sig.

the fact the you have the ability to buy a gun in CA is baffling

^ or 9x 25

snwbrdr435 wrote:^ or 9x 25

I knew I forgot one of the conversions!

Nothing like a 115gr chugging along at 1800fps!!!

PoorManQ45 wrote:
M&S data is not valid on a round that was only used for a couple of years.

Bullet designs have improved to allow for more controlled and quicker expansion.

The only problem a newb would have with a 10mm is failure to eject due to limp wrist. If taught properly this should not be an issue. The first pistol I ever shot was a Ruger Security Six 357 mag shooting BuffaloBore 158 full power loads. Say flinch? Practice makes perfect.

A Glock 20 with a non-CA magazine is simply awesome when combined with full power loads. What's very cool is that for $100 you can buy the conversion kit to change to a 40s&w or a 357sig.

10mm Auto has been around since 1983. It's shot enough people since then to produce decent numbers.

As for your "taught properly" BS, you really think if the FBI found it too much of a handful to train agents with, that Average Joe is going to be able to make use of it?

Neat round, better for "being different" and generating undeserved senses of superiority among it's users than self-defense. I'd carry one if there was a chance something would eat me, rather than try and take my wallet.


Terrible recommendation for a beginner.

Urabus GodofTraction wrote: 10mm Auto has been around since 1983. It's shot enough people since then to produce decent numbers.

As for your "taught properly" BS, you really think if the FBI found it too much of a handful to train agents with, that Average Joe is going to be able to make use of it?

No, the FBI stopped using it because they felt that their agents were too limp wristed to handle it!

"concluded that its recoil was excessive in terms of training for average agent/police officer competency of use and qualification," and the pistols that chambered it were too large for some small-handed individuals.

What I meant is that the testing was done in conjunction with the government agency. When they stopped using the 10mm there wasn't much testing done after that. The bulk of the information is from when the agency used the caliber.

Kimber .45 1911 FTW



Absolutely love that gun. I've got the .22 LR conversion for it too, was just shooting it today. It just screams badass. I've got a few S&W's too. I love the M&P 9mm's.

I luz Tennessee. That's all I really got out of this. You're 21? Go to the store and buy a gun! Background check, of course, but in/out with your new shiny handgun in ~30 minutes, if you already know what you want. The longer I stay here in CA, the more I hate this state.

PoorManQ45 wrote:

"concluded that its recoil was excessive in terms of training for average agent/police officer competency of use and qualification," and the pistols that chambered it were too large for some small-handed individuals.

Good ol' Wikipedia.

Carry 10mm Auto if you have a tiny d!ck, or have a good chance of getting mauled by a wild hog.

Put up your rapid-fire 10mm Auto targets. You should probably compete in IDPA if you're outperforming FBI agents on a regular basis.

I'll find my most recent 15 yard 1911 target so we have results from a time-tested baseline.

Urabus GodofTraction wrote: I'll find my most recent 15 yard 1911 target so we have results from a time-tested baseline.

For luz would you like to compare the EUU 10mm which is based off the 1911 design?

Glock 20/29.

Or Dan Wesson revolver?

I do not understand your reference to "tiny d!ck". By that thinking, carrying any gun means you have a "tiny d!ck" and can't stand up for yourself.

Police carried the 38 special for years, and for awhile the 357mag. The 10mm was designed to offer 357 power in a semi-auto. Police didn't have an issue with the 357, and that was in solid frame revolvers with no recoil buffering like semi-autos have(slide and recoil spring increase the time it takes to transmit energy to your hand, therefore reducing perceived recoil).

Our police force has gotten away from having more power then the bad guy. Most departments carry a 9mm Glock or Springfield. Remember the LA shootouts that required the police to get guns from the local gun store? After this some police forces started carrying 223/5.56 semi-auto rifles in their trunk. A 10mm or 357 will not defeat body armor. What it will do is extremely damage a criminal that is wearing body armor(not common, but neither is home invasion in the first place...)

If this is going to be a self protection weapon why not go big? Stroll over to the concealed forums and pretty much any gun forum. They all have self protection sections. Most of the members have gone years and years without ever having to draw their weapon for protection.

The FBI cancelled the 10mm due to recoil. This is for a government agent that has 1000x more chance of actually using their weapon, and often! This doesn't change the fact that they were being pansies...

So, to bring it all back together, like you said, everyone here has a "tiny d!ck" and should carry around a .22 pistol. They work perfectly for self defense against a bi-ped.

PoorManQ45 wrote:

Urabus GodofTraction wrote: I'll find my most recent 15 yard 1911 target so we have results from a time-tested baseline.

For luz would you like to compare the EUU 10mm which is based off the 1911 design?

Glock 20/29.

Or Dan Wesson revolver?

I do not understand your reference to "tiny d!ck". By that thinking, carrying any gun means you have a "tiny d!ck" and can't stand up for yourself.

Police carried the 38 special for years, and for awhile the 357mag. The 10mm was designed to offer 357 power in a semi-auto. Police didn't have an issue with the 357, and that was in solid frame revolvers with no recoil buffering like semi-autos have(slide and recoil spring increase the time it takes to transmit energy to your hand, therefore reducing perceived recoil).

Our police force has gotten away from having more power then the bad guy. Most departments carry a 9mm Glock or Springfield. Remember the LA shootouts that required the police to get guns from the local gun store? After this some police forces started carrying 223/5.56 semi-auto rifles in their trunk. A 10mm or 357 will not defeat body armor. What it will do is extremely damage a criminal that is wearing body armor(not common, but neither is home invasion in the first place...)

If this is going to be a self protection weapon why not go big? Stroll over to the concealed forums and pretty much any gun forum. They all have self protection sections. Most of the members have gone years and years without ever having to draw their weapon for protection.

The FBI cancelled the 10mm due to recoil. This is for a government agent that has 1000x more chance of actually using their weapon, and often! This doesn't change the fact that they were being pansies...

So, to bring it all back together, like you said, everyone here has a "tiny d!ck" and should carry around a .22 pistol. They work perfectly for self defense against a bi-ped.

It's simple: Because of it's gross limitations (size of round, size of guns, recoil, etc), a lack of proven record (it's really TOO powerful for "social work," see overpenetration) of many more commercially available rounds, choosing to carry a 10mm comes down to two things: you want to be different, and you need a pen15 extension. Do you need me to break it down Barney style for you?

Oh, and to further damage your credibility: the Tanfoglio/EEA Witness is based on the CZ-75, which is in turn based on the High-Power (which explains why I love them so).

CZ-75

I need one of those!

snwbrdr435 wrote:CZ-75

I need one of those!

The CZ-75 is one of my favorites. Smooth, points well, accurate, expensive, and you can get a .22 upper so you can shoot it as much as you please. The CZ-75 PCR is on my short list.

Funny. Im going to be getting a firearm soon too. I got caught in the middle of a gun fight on my street on friday. My bumper got grazed but thankfully nobody i care about got hurt. I figured if teh 16 year olds are heated than i should be carrying too.

I need a bigger handgun, if only I had the money for one. *taking donations, as you don't want to see me get hurt