ITBs

[raging panda]

I have been thinking about trying to fabricate an ITB setup on my DE but I still have a limited knowledge about how the DE would react to them. Does anybody have any ideas of what complications might come up with this setup, specifically with the DE engine? ( aside from the fabrication) I plan all the normal N/A upgrades, pistons, cams, you know the drill, but I want to do something about the intake manifold. I know there are alternatives but I would like to know possible outcomes of this specific setup.

[TomsMR2]

it would be obsurdly expensive..

[raging panda]

You mean the throttle bodies themselves or the setup to make it run?

[TomsMR2]

both. getting it to run would be probably more expensive... unless you have standalone.

[TomsMR2]

for the gains you get, you might as well do ANY other mod besides this... it would sound cool as hell tho :d

[gogeeta13]

we dont drive honda's here. Get port and polish head, get your manifold extrude honed, get some cams, etc etc.

ITBs are a last ditch effort to get more power.

[TomsMR2]

^ wtf are you talking about?

[gogeeta13]

there are much better and more effective ways of making power on your engine, that wasting time, money and headache with ITBs.

[TomsMR2]

^ i agree.. but wtf does itb's have todo with honda..

off the top of my head, i can only think of toyotas and nissans with ITB motors.. not hondas.

[nlzmo400r]

^ i agree.. but wtf does itb's have todo with honda..

off the top of my head, i can only think of toyotas and nissans with ITB motors.. not hondas.

thats exactly what i was thinking, perhaps he means hondas need to do whatever they can for every last hp??

[TomsMR2]

^ why, they make more hp per liter/cylinder than we do...

[nlzmo400r]

because most wel built b16/18s dont get anywhere near as much power as a well built SR, or even KA for that matter, and the hondas will need every last bit of hp they can get

[_dk]

ITBs usually involve a MAP sensor... so yeah, you'd need some other solution for fuel/ignition management... bolting it together would probably be expensive, but not super-difficult as i know there are KA-D sidedraft manifolds out there... throttle bodies bolt to that, given that there's room for them and the air-horns.

i don't get why you guys are so down on them in an all-motor forum- if you don't want to go turbo, IMO they're what to do when your intake manifold starts to pose a big restriction.

back when my vw was my only car i was looking at an ITB setup for it- generally, they're what you have to do if you want to get past about ~165whp with the 2-liter 16v (which is undersquare, like the KA, with a similar rod ratio, and a head design that's absolute crap compared to the KA-D)... kinda reminds me of how "you can't get more than 200whp out of an all-motor KA".

have a look at your intake manifold sometime and give some serious thought to whether or not a view like this might flow a little more w/ the appropriate head work...

[gogeeta13]

^ i agree.. but wtf does itb's have todo with honda..

off the top of my head, i can only think of toyotas and nissans with ITB motors.. not hondas.

The biggest thing in All motor honda tuning as been adapting ITB setups from motorcycles. Its extremely hard, and requires an immense amount of knowledge of tuning, but it can all be done with a hondata.

The ITB has become the latch ditch efford to make the most all motor power out of a B-series.

If you do everything(P&P, extrude hone your IM, etc etc) to your KA except ITBs, you will be making more power than most any honda motor.

[RobDET]

Sorry to disagree but check out JGEngine dynamics. I doubt you will beat a fully built B18C5 in the all motor department. Unless you think you can squeeze 315 hp outta the KA motor all-motor like. I'm not knocking the motor at all but everyone always rags on hondas but when it comes to all-motor they are actuially pretty nice.

[nlzmo400r]

id be willing to bet, that you could get more hp, and ESPECIALLY MORE TQ out of an all motor KA , than b18c1

[gogeeta13]

Sorry to disagree but check out JGEngine dynamics. I doubt you will beat a fully built B18C5 in the all motor department. Unless you think you can squeeze 315 hp outta the KA motor all-motor like. I'm not knocking the motor at all but everyone always rags on hondas but when it comes to all-motor they are actuially pretty nice.

nobody has spent 20grand and 500 man hours on building a KA. At this point, probably 10,000 plus man hours and countless hundreds of thousands of dollars have broght B-series engine building to an absolute peak.

IMHO, you can take the KA much further.

[TomsMR2]

this isnt about hondas. this is about ITB's.

you'd be ignorant to say ITB's are worthless. YES they will help the KA. yes they're expensive. yes its difficult. but most of all... YES, its a good idea.

[gogeeta13]

I am saying if someone wants to do a big huge all motor KA buildup, do the big things first, and get everything to the best it can be before doing ITBs. The ITBs will not make the KA an all motor beast. Lots of expiriementing and money needs to find out what can be changed and made better, before going with ITBs.

[SSS]

ITB's WILL make an immense difference IF they are tuned correctly. For example, RPW here in Australia did an ITB manifold (using the standard runners, see pic HERE) on a 1.5L SOHC 12 valve Hyundai excel. the car made 87hp standard at the flywheel, and with headers(4-1)/catback, the ITB's, a standalone computer, cam and ported heads, the car made approx. 150hp with more tuning to follow. 180hp is not out of the question, and this is a 1.5L with a std bottom end.

Why i bring this up, the head on this car is essentially similar in design to the KA24E head, albeit the KA head flows better. I will be utilizing a similar setup on my KA sohc motor with the following already installed: 262/264deg cam, headers (4-2-1), ported heads, increased compression (8.6->9.0:1), all on a standard bottom end. When the ITB's go in, a piggyback computer will handle fuel/timing. I will be aiming for 175hp at the wheels. (and no, the car isn't a 240sx, it is a 1992 Pintara TRX, a better looking version of the Stanza):D

[_dk]

I will be utilizing a similar setup on my KA sohc motor with the following already installed: 262/264deg cam, headers (4-2-1), ported heads, increased compression (8.6->9.0:1), all on a standard bottom end. When the ITB's go in, a piggyback computer will handle fuel/timing. I will be aiming for 175hp at the wheels. (and no, the car isn't a 240sx, it is a 1992 Pintara TRX, a better looking version of the Stanza):D

how are you planning on measuring airflow? i haven't been able to find a piggyback that allows the use of a MAP... am i not looking hard enough?

[SSS]

I'm not using a MAP. I will be retaining the std MAF until i hit the ceiling with it. Greddy E-manage and Perfect Power SMT6 can utilize MAF or MAP input.Yes, i will be using a sealed CF/fibreglass or aluminium plenum connected to the existing MAF and airbox assembly, unless flowbench testing reveals the MAF flows LESS than what the intake manifold will, in which case i will upgrade to the suitable size MAF (Q45 or RB25DET 3" MAF) and utilize a large K&N pod.

After all, i will be designing the plenum to be pressurized if i'm not happy how it turns out performance wise.

[_dk]

Quote »Greddy E-manage and Perfect Power SMT6 can utilize MAF or MAP input.[/quote]from what i've read, the E-manage only uses a MAP sensor to switch between off-/on-boost maps (like the TPS-MAP hack); not for actual airflow measurement.

i'll check out Perfect Power. thanks.

Quote »i will be using a sealed CF/fibreglass or aluminium plenum connected to the existing MAF and airbox assembly, unless flowbench testing reveals the MAF flows LESS than what the intake manifold will, in which case i will upgrade to the suitable size MAF (Q45 or RB25DET 3" MAF) and utilize a large K&N pod.[/quote]if you're gonna have a piggyback on there anyway, i'd say save your money on the Q/skyline hardware and do a MAF hack- see thread elsewhere in this forum.

Quote »After all, i will be designing the plenum to be pressurized if i'm not happy how it turns out performance wise. [/quote]

i think if i can get this thing to 10lb/whp i'll be happy enough with it... but forced induction on itb's is just tasty.