It's finally done!!!

[jfanaselle]

Well, after close to 100 hours of labor, I finally finished my sub box / amp rack. I'm not the best at applying vinyl, so it doesn't look quite as OEM as I had hoped, but it still looks great, and it sounds good too.

[Clipsed]

looks decent, nice job. Why waste money on that cap though, and waste that box on Sony Xplod, that is LITERALLY what is gonna happen to that sub unfortunately, they are amazingly crappy. Did you calculate the internal volume before adding resin? That was a lot of space you used, but good work.

[jfanaselle]

Well everyone's opinions aside, I've had some good luck running a cap to stiffen the system a little bit so my lights won't dim at night with the music. It's actually only 1/2 farad and cost me $20. As far as the box volume, it's a little too small for the requirements of the sub so I used some poly fill to compensate. I used the ol' bag of packing peanuts technique to calculate but didn't want to go so high that I blocked the cargo light. The box doesn't actually consume as much volume as it looks like because the amp is taking up alot of that area too. As far as the components - I work for Sony.

[weems84]

looks great. I don't have the time or knowledge to make my own box. One guy i asked wanted 400 bucks and my car for 3 or 4 days!

[Clipsed]

haha, tell them for me if you would that they need to step up their car audio game!!! lolz. But it looks sharp. BTW packing peanuts are good for "an in the ballpark estimate," but if you want a more accurate estimate you can use something smaller. I use white rice, because it is dirt cheap, and takes up all the space inside, every nook and cranny.

[BillyBeaneBall]

Well, I have no knowledge of car audio for the most part and I think you did a fantastic job! I just went ahead and got the upgraded sound package when I bought V2 since I was unimpressed with V1's sound before I killed the car.

Problem with the SUB being where it is (for both your car and mine) is that before I could fit my golf clubs in the hatch...now I cant

[Clipsed]

looks great. I don't have the time or knowledge to make my own box. One guy i asked wanted 400 bucks and my car for 3 or 4 days!

honestly, that is pretty damn cheap, materials will easily be up near $300 for a custom box, and there are a lot of materials that go into the trash OFTEN lolz. Plus you can not do a FG box in one day, it always takes on average 4-7 days, more than that for more intricately designed boxes and covers.

[Rockhound]

Hey man, looks great, darn near stock appearance. Despite all the nay-saying, I'm sure you'll really appreciate this project.

Just out of curiosity, I went out and did some research on car audio and capacitors in general. It's a heated debate on the subject, to say the least.

The problem is that most folks go off hearsay...they don't have much circuitry knowledge themselves, they just hear someone say "caps suck" and then they repeat it like a parrot. That's how much audio "knowledge" is passed around - there are so many myths out there, it's simply amazing. I'd say if they've worked for you in the past, then there's no reason not to continue using a cap.

I however won't pretend to be an expert, and I'll just say that it looks like you did a great job.

[lain]

Now add 1 more to the other side

[jfanaselle]

Well thanks for the comments guys. Like I said before, I invested so much time and labor into this project. I'm very happy with the way it came out.

[mindpenn]

That's the best one I've seen so far, it looks really good!

The other one I saw was this one: zerothread?id=223305


Modified by mindpenn at 10:55 AM 10/12/2007

[Rockhound]

So what's your favorite genre of music?

[Clipsed]

Hey man, looks great, darn near stock appearance. Despite all the nay-saying, I'm sure you'll really appreciate this project.

Just out of curiosity, I went out and did some research on car audio and capacitors in general. It's a heated debate on the subject, to say the least.

The problem is that most folks go off hearsay...they don't have much circuitry knowledge themselves, they just hear someone say "caps suck" and then they repeat it like a parrot. That's how much audio "knowledge" is passed around - there are so many myths out there, it's simply amazing. I'd say if they've worked for you in the past, then there's no reason not to continue using a cap.

I however won't pretend to be an expert, and I'll just say that it looks like you did a great job.

Do you know what a capacitor is and what it does? In the car audio competition world, caps are useless. Caps in any setup are bandages to other problems. If your lights are dimming, this means that your charging and battery system are unable to keep up with the current draw that your system is demanding, and taking away from NEEDED electronics. To fix this you upgrade the big three. You upgrade all your power and ground wires throughout the car, you upgrade your alternator to a higher amp system, and upgrade your battery to a deep cycle. It is a shame that people always assume things instead of educating themselves. This has been proven, and there are plenty of people who know their ish on car audio who will tell you not to waste your money on caps, because they do nothing but bandage BIGGER problems. Ask anyone who perform in DB Drag and they will tell you. Ask them how many alternators they are running and how many amps each, and how many deep cycle batteries, and how many watts their system is pushing. THEN ask em how many caps they have and watch them laugh at you.

[Rockhound]

Clipsed, I'm not going to get into an ego-fueled p!$$ing contest with you.

You've really answered the question for yourself in that last post.

In the car audio competition world, caps are useless.

I've scoured over this thread, but I still can't find where Joe (jfanaselle) said that he's entering his Versa into stereo competition. Hmmm...guess I missed it.

You're exactly right in saying that the capacitor acts as a "band-aid" - it really just masks weaknesses in other components. But, if it keeps Joe's lights from dimming when the sub "hits" - then I'd say the "band-aid" is working.

Believe it or not, not everyone is out to make their modifications stand up to "competition" levels. This forum is not about competition, despite your never-ending attempts to make it so.

[Clipsed]

Clipsed, I'm not going to get into an ego-fueled p!$$ing contest with you.

You've really answered the question for yourself in that last post.

I've scoured over this thread, but I still can't find where Joe (jfanaselle) said that he's entering his Versa into stereo competition. Hmmm...guess I missed it.

You're exactly right in saying that the capacitor acts as a "band-aid" - it really just masks weaknesses in other components. But, if it keeps Joe's lights from dimming when the sub "hits" - then I'd say the "band-aid" is working.

Believe it or not, not everyone is out to make their modifications stand up to "competition" levels. This forum is not about competition, despite your never-ending attempts to make it so.

[Jemdawg]

The truth is that a cap will only work on a typical stock alternator with a total wattage rating less than ~800. Ultimately, when the car is on with the engine running, the alternator is supplying power for the entire electronics system in the car. Adding a cap creates more resistance on the alternator and therefore makes it work harder. In most cases, a cap will not even keep headlights from dimming, and if it will, it will eventually stop doing that. If you intend on blasting your system, then that cap is more than likely doing more harm than good. This is my opinion, but also the opinion of many many other car audio professionals. Caps aren't even a band aid, they are just another way to make money in the car audio business. A typical car audio shop will tell you that you need one (or two), as they will tell you that you need Monster Cables in your car and that they should install it all for you.

[Jemdawg]

Anyway...

It looks good, I like the outcome. How does it sound? I'm not a fan of Sony's newer Xplod products, I liked them much more way back when the ES line was out. Any other audio mods in the car?

[marleyfan]

I think it looks good from a workmanship perspective. The bottom line is does the sound live up to your wants and expectation. Does the system function as it should and sound good. The rest of the discussion is crap.

[Rockhound]

I think it looks good from a workmanship perspective. The bottom line is does the sound live up to your wants and expectation. Does the system function as it should and sound good. The rest of the discussion is crap.

I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, if you choose to post something that doesn't pass muster with a certain self-proclaimed "expert", you're subject to puerile ridicule. One option would be to ignore it - the other would be to confront it. Personally I'm so fed up with it that I cannot sit back and watch it happen to every similar thread. One person shouldn't be able to ruin it for everyone else.

[jfanaselle]

Well guys, thanks again for the great comments. It's nice to see that people appreciate the hard work! Anyways, what it boils down to is this: As has been stated, I have absolutely no intention of competing in dB drags. If I did, I would have ripped out the back seats, built a custom bracket and mounted 5 100 amp alternators under the hood, installed 3 deep cycle batteries, replaced all the glass with 5" thick lexan and installed a throttle control so that I could idle the engine up. And for that matter, I probably would have purchased some kind of van instead of a Versa. I just wanted it to sound good for the music I listen to (which is almost every genre) and look good in the process. So that's why I chose the components that I did and that's why it's installed in the fashion that it is. So now that I've addressed that, let me speak to capacitors: Obvously, a capacitor doesn't do as much for an electrical system as an additional battery or an upgraded battery, but it does have a purpose in a car audio application such as mine. Capacitors "stiffen" any electrical circuit by adding small resevoirs of power for items to draw from. Yes, it is true that it adds a load to the alternator by increasing the resistance. Consider a water distribution system in a small city. You have a source, whether it be a lake or a well, etc. Then you have a main holding area, probably a massive resevoir, and you have pumps and pipes to distribute the water. When someone turns on the faucet, the water comes through the pipes and fills their need. A capacitor can be compared to a smaller resevoir that is added to the system closer to the end user. When there is an excess draw on the system, more water is closer to the end user which means faster delivery of more water. There is now an additional load on the system because the resevoir needs to be refilled, but it served it's purpose when needed. The electrical system works very much this same way... the amp will draw massive amounts of power in small spurts, and the capacitor will benefit the electrical system during that time. I COULD upgrade the alternator to always be able to provide enough amperage to the amplifier during high demand, but that's simply not something that I want to do on my setup. The capacitor will charge and discharge 100 times faster than a battery, which allows it to get power from the alternator when there is low demand on the system (between music notes) and supply power into the system when there is high demand (during a solid hit of the subwoofer). The fact is that capacitors work exactly this way, and if they didn't, then they wouldn't be installed in almost every single electronic component that you own to stabilize the current flow.

[SPL Versa]

Here's my opinion on the whole debate. I compete in SPL competitions, I hold state records, and would never run a cap in my car....personally. IMO they are nothing more that expensive voltage meters.

In every day use, I can see where people think it will help, think it will be less expensive to go that route than to buy a deep cycle battery, etc. etc. But in reality, they could spend even less money by upgrading the big 3 and see a much better result than by using a cap.

Capacitors "stiffen" any electrical circuit by adding small resevoirs of power for items to draw from. Yes, it is true that it adds a load to the alternator by increasing the resistance....................... The capacitor will charge and discharge 100 times faster than a battery, which allows it to get power from the alternator when there is low demand on the system (between music notes) and supply power into the system when there is high demand (during a solid hit of the subwoofer). The fact is that capacitors work exactly this way, and if they didn't, then they wouldn't be installed in almost every single electronic component that you own to stabilize the current flow.

Look at it this way, yes it adds "small resevoirs of power" for when the bass drops, but consider this, rap music, for example, has constant bass, so while your cap is trying to constantly recover those "small resevoirs if power", your losing even more voltage.

I'm not trying to bash you, I think the box looks good, I as long as your happy with it, I'm happy haha, but I just wanna share what I knowledge I have about the subject.

[Jemdawg]

Ehhh. I just wanted to state my opinion, there are people who like using them and will probably always use them, that's fine with me. I won't use one, and I won't do more than propose the reasons why they should not be used. Whether the reader decides to use them is up to the reader. If another person is using a cap, it won't harm me, so I'm not too worried about it.

[Jojo Versa]

It is a shame that people always assume things instead of educating themselves.

Funny how those who often talk about educating are the ones who need educating the most !

[Rockhound]

Funny how those who often talk about educating are the ones who need educating the most !

Good luck convincing them of that, though.

[jfanaselle]

I never expected pictures of my fiberglass box to raise such a heated debate about the use of capacitors. But oh well, at least everyone (or almost everyone) likes the box!

[XterraVersa]

jfanaselle looks good. How does it sound?

looks decent, nice job. Why waste money on that cap though, and waste that box on Sony Xplod, that is LITERALLY what is gonna happen to that sub unfortunately, they are amazingly crappy. Did you calculate the internal volume before adding resin? That was a lot of space you used, but good work.

Man; get over yourself. Not everyone needs to spend big bucks on components. I like sound, but can not hear the difference in a $100 sub vs a $1000 at the volume levels I want. I don't need the neighborhood to hear my music.

[Jemdawg]

I don't need my neighbors to hear my music either, I'm in it for SQ not SPL. Sure, I can blast my music if I'd like to, but I just want the music to sound as close to the way it sounded when it was recorded.

I apologize for introducing the debate on caps, just figured I'd inform you on your options. The box really came out good, and that's all that is relevant in this thread.

[M2Motoring]

congrats on the new mod! woo hoo!

[jfanaselle]

jfanaselle looks good. How does it sound?

It sounds great. There is one more small air leak that I am trying to track down. It's coming from an area behind where the amp rack is, so I'm having a hard time trying to seal it up. I think I might just try to get inside the box again with some expanding foam and see if I can get it that way. Once that's sealed up, it'll sound even better, and I need to add some poly fill to the inside because it's a little too small.

[Clipsed]

can't wait to see it at the meet!