Some people just don't get the picture. I'm not sure of the official NICO position on streetracing, but the results are in. The facts speak for themselves, it is dangerous, and all too often the results are tragic.

I've heard a hundred times the "I'm careful" or "I only do it where it's safe" excuse. I doubt any of the below statistics set out to be dangerous or careless. I'm sure they too thought they were careful and safe. But they are none the less, very dead. Along with their death, they took others, even innocent parties with them.

The penalties can't be stiff enough. When you risk the life of my wife and kids by street racing on the same streets they use to get to work on, or to get to the store, or school, you have earned my wrath.

Others object to having their cars crushed. Hey, it's a law. You play, you pay. One thing for sure, once that car is crushed, it will never again participate in an event that places another individuals at risk from their illegal behavior. They never stop to think that the people in the other car are the family of another who loves them and cares for them, and the right to a healthy life trumps the right of a moron to a street racer.

How anyone can defend illegal street racing is beyond me. It is dangerous at best, fatal at worst. When you play, and you lose, you die. When that happens it's going to be for a very long time.

Fox news wrote:According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 804 people were killed in racing-related crashes between 2001 and 2006. California had 188 of those deaths, with Texas second at 128.

After declining in the first half of the decade, street-racing deaths are on the rise again, climbing roughly 35 percent from 111 in 2005 to 150 in 2006, NHTSA said.

In California, authorities seize cars and have them publicly crushed at junkyards. (see picture below) A state law makes street racing punishable with prison time, and some jurisdictions make it illegal even to watch a race. (San Diego for one)

parenthetical remarks mine

NHRA.COM wrote:
Consider the following stats, compiled from a variety of national and state transportation agencies, and it's easy to see the answer is to take it to the track.

In 2001, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reported that police listed street racing as a factor in 135 fatal crashes. The total was up from 72 street-racing-related fatalities reported in 2000. According to the California Office of Traffic Safety, more than 800 citations for illegal street racing were issued in 2001.

In San Diego, where the street racing problem has been termed "epidemic," 16 deaths and 31 injuries were directly related to illegal street racing in 2001. The city's attorney's office prosecuted 147 illegal street racing cases in 1999, 161 in 2000, and 290 in 2001.

In Florida in 2001, 7,216 citations were issued for racing on the highway. In 1999, the Florida Department of Highway and Safety for Motor Vehicles reported 28 accidents related to illegal street racing, with 2 fatalities and 27 injuries. In 2000, the agency reported 39 racing accidents, with 1 fatality and 55 injuries. In 2002, there were 48 racing accidents, 1 fatality, and 60 injuries.

According to the NHTSA, motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death for people between the ages of 16 and 20.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety says 5,749 teens died in the United States from motor vehicle crash injuries in 1999.

Nationwide statistics show that 49 people are injured for every 1,000 who participate in illegal street racing. As a result, city and state ordinances have been issued regarding illegal street racing. Though laws vary, here are some penalties faced by street racers:

You can be arrested and have your car impounded for 30 days. If convicted of street racing or aiding and abetting a street race, you can be imprisoned for up to three months and fined up to $1,000. Spectators are subject to penalties as well. Your driver's license can be revoked. Your car insurance may be cancelled or the rates dramatically increased. Cars in and around illegal street races are often issued equipment violations.

Under the yellow tarp is a San Diego driver who was careful and raced safely...two UCSD students were killed in a BMW while street racing a Lexus. BMW pictured.

Guess what got crushed...for street racing...

Two men allegedly involved in a street racing accident which resulted in the death of an elderly couple have been charged over the incident.

Quote »Donald Ickes was killed just moments after finishing some Christmas shopping for his grandchildren last Dec. 14 at a model-train store. Pulling his car onto the road that afternoon, Mr. Ickes, 65, was blindsided by a G.M.C. Yukon sport utility vehicle whose driver was street racing at more than 75 miles an hour, witnesses told the police. [/quote]Quote »Krystal Pomante, 11, died on Dec. 30, hours after another impromptu street race resulted in a crash. Krystal, a fifth grader, was in the back seat of a Ford Mustang. With her were her brother, A. J., 9; her sister, Jenni, 17; and Jenni's boyfriend, who, the police said, accepted a challenge to race from a passing car here and soon lost control. [/quote]Quote »Trisha Ann Thornton, 19, died on Jan. 18, also here, in a car her boyfriend crashed into a street-light pole while racing, the police said. The same night, Tami Anglin, 18, and Tara Mackmer, 19, died in a car that went out of control after a race, the police said. [/quote]I could keep pulling data. Google tells me there is 676,000 hits for street racing deaths. I think I've made my point.

Now, it's all about writing the NHTSA and requesting that they take the time to look at this and enact national legislation against street racing.

If you want to race, find a track. If there is no track, work with your city to have a lot set aside for speed events. But keep them off the street. Don't spend the rest of your life regretting a few minutes of stupidity.

Men have been racing since we ever needed to go anywhere, not gonna change. We can pull stats on how dangerous things result in death till we're blue in the face, but people are still going to race. When innocent people are killed...or even involved in an accident it's tragic. But that thought isn't going to keep me from going 85-90 mph on the freeway ALL the time. If you're driving slow in the fast lane I'm going to tailgate you, pass without fully leaving the lane and possibly brake you when I manage to get in front of you. Depends on how slow you are going and how many times you could have simply moved over. Then I'll continue my blast up the blvd while I make random lane changes so as to avoid the slower moving traffic.

Since you can't attack a street racer without attacking people that speed, how about you poll how many accidents happen every year where excessive speed is a factor. The results will FAR outweigh those from street racing. So now 70% of American males have "earned your wrath".

It's about judgement IMO. I feel like I posses enough judgment to know when speeding or even racing has acceptable risks. I've admittedly done both and will most likely continue to do both in the future.

WD

I'm with WD on this one.

I too, drive the way that I'm going to drive. I don't agree with street racing in any degree. But again, I will drive the way I drive. And with only one speeding ticket in my 10 year record.

Take it for what it's worth. I'm not arguing, just telling you how I drive, and how I will continue to drive. No matter what.

WDRacing wrote:Men have been racing since we ever needed to go anywhere, not gonna change. We can pull stats on how dangerous things result in death till we're blue in the face, but people are still going to race. When innocent people are killed...or even involved in an accident it's tragic. But that thought isn't going to keep me from going 85-90 mph on the freeway ALL the time. If you're driving slow in the fast lane I'm going to tailgate you, pass without fully leaving the lane and possibly brake you when I manage to get in front of you. Depends on how slow you are going and how many times you could have simply moved over. Then I'll continue my blast up the blvd while I make random lane changes so as to avoid the slower moving traffic.

Since you can't attack a street racer without attacking people that speed, how about you poll how many accidents happen every year where excessive speed is a factor. The results will FAR outweigh those from street racing. So now 70% of American males have "earned your wrath".

It's about judgement IMO. I feel like I posses enough judgment to know when speeding or even racing has acceptable risks. I've admittedly done both and will most likely continue to do both in the future.

WD

I think there is a difference between speeding/spirited driving and what you descibe above which is careless/wreckless driving. Street racing is just another form of careless/wreckless driving.

"acceptable risks"?? Would be curious to know how that is defined by our Nico street racers.

Oh, by the way, I'm no angel here....had a 69 Mach 1 in HS. I've done many things in THAT car that I'm ashamed of.But, I grew out of them well before I was out of my teens.

eazye2000 wrote:I'm with WD on this one.

I too, drive the way that I'm going to drive. I don't agree with street racing in any degree. But again, I will drive the way I drive. And with only one speeding ticket in my 10 year record.

Take it for what it's worth. I'm not arguing, just telling you how I drive, and how I will continue to drive. No matter what.

um....no, actually you didn't tell us how you drive...reread your post.

Brian, the problem is that street racing is something that is patiently dangerous. The examples you give are for a single car, occupying a single lane of as freeway, driving 15 +/- over the speed limit.

When two or more cars street race, they occupy two or three lanes. Typically, these are not lanes designed for 70+/- mph traffic. They have intersections, cross traffic, and pedestrians near by.

When you drive 80, you are going the same way the traffic is. There is no cross traffic. No stop lights to run. Street racers cut through traffic. Often speeding through intersections, or even running red lights. That is dangerous.

You are on a freeway, on a road designed and engineered for 70+ mph traffic. They are on streets designed for speeds far less then the speeds they reach. Tragically they lose control because the roads were not engineered for the speeds they travel.

One driver driving fast on the freeway is far different from a couple of morons trying to prove that their car is faster than the other. Often there is no fixed end to their competition, they just race until they can't go any faster or one crashes.

Do you think that any person who has ever had a tragic end to a street racing event didn't think they were in control, or that they could handle their car? Look at Nick Hogan. He thought he was a pro, and he put a friend into a permanent vegetative state.

SVTCOBRA wrote:
I think there is a difference between speeding/spirited driving and what you descibe above which is careless/wreckless driving. Street racing is just another form of careless/wreckless driving.

"acceptable risks"?? Would be curious to know how that is defined by our Nico street racers.

Oh, by the way, I'm no angel here....had a 69 Mach 1 in HS. I've done many things in THAT car that I'm ashamed of.But, I grew out of them well before I was out of my teens.

i think the thing is that it becomes hard to distinguse the difference between the two. I know that i have been pulled over when in a friends car and the cop demanded we tell him who we were racing when in fact we were jsut driving fast for no reason. I bet even alot of those death stats from street racing were actually from "spirited driving" as well. not, in fast, from racing another vehicle. Over all im gonna have to go with our grumpy mod. People will drive fast and "race" no matter what and it is def not any type of individual that needs to be accused for it. Its just gonna happen. I would like to state as well tho that anyone that has raced on a track can help me say it is actually a lot more fun on it. As i know for me i feel safer in the controlled enviornment which allows me to react with more logic then reaction which is what happens on the road.

If we read the articles, it says "Street racing." I'm going to have to assume that the incidents were pretty thoroughly investigated (since there was a death involved) and that the fact they were racing was documented.

People will drive fast. We've covered why that is difference from racing. And some people will continue to race until they get a ticket, their car gets impounded and crushed, or they end up hurting someone. Look in the OP, there is a stack of cars, an Integra, a Subi and a few others that ended up in the recycle bin.

$hit happens fast. Often too fast for too many to identify, react and save. Safety first.

brizanden wrote:i think the thing is that it becomes hard to distinguse the difference between the two. I know that i have been pulled over when in a friends car and the cop demanded we tell him who we were racing when in fact we were jsut driving fast for no reason. I bet even alot of those death stats from street racing were actually from "spirited driving" as well. not, in fast, from racing another vehicle. Over all im gonna have to go with our grumpy mod. People will drive fast and "race" no matter what and it is def not any type of individual that needs to be accused for it. Its just gonna happen. I would like to state as well tho that anyone that has raced on a track can help me say it is actually a lot more fun on it. As i know for me i feel safer in the controlled enviornment which allows me to react with more logic then reaction which is what happens on the road.

Yes, I agree.Calculating the risk. When you put another car beside you that you do not have control over, you have just increased your risk greatly.Knowing your car, knowing your surroundings, knowing the pavement when you are doing some spirited driving will reduce your risk. Taking your care to a driving school will reduce your risk.

Zipping in & out of traffic, tailgating, braking in front of somebody to get back at them when you do not know how well they are paying attention or what their driving skills are is greatly increasing your risk. Your risk and greatly increasing the risk of inoccent folks around you. I think we are saying the same thing.

Which one deserves more attention....804 people killed in street racing within a 5 year timeframe or the 14k+ people killed annually via drunk driving? Assuming it's just 14k each year that works out to 804 vs 70,000 over the same 5-year timeframe.

audtatious wrote:Which one deserves more attention....804 people killed in street racing within a 5 year timeframe or the 14k+ people killed annually via drunk driving? Assuming it's just 14k each year that works out to 804 vs 70,000 over the same 5-year timeframe.

More attention in this thread??

I thought I read that sleepy drivers killed more than drunk drivers.

I think in this thread, Bob is concerned about street racing.

The difference is that no one here is defending or excusing drunk driving. No one has claimed that they have exceptional drunk driving skills and only drive drunk where it is safe to do so.

Yet, there are many here who think street racing is okay because they are careful and possess great skills.

I doubt a thread about the evils of driving intoxicated would raise an eyebrow.

My point is that there are other driving-related deaths that have more impact than the small number of those street racing.

rn79870 wrote:The difference is that no one here is defending or excusing drunk driving. No one has claimed that they have exceptional drunk driving skills and only drive drunk where it is safe to do so.

Yet, there are many here who think street racing is okay because they are careful and possess great skills.

I doubt a thread about the evils of driving intoxicated would raise an eyebrow.

You are not going to convince those who believe street racing is OK that it's not. They know it is illegal and they choose to do it anyway. Simply put stiff penalties in the books and go onto what is worse.

Focusing on something that kills 804 in a 5 year timeframe instead of larger issues simply takes peoples eye off the bigger ball.

if were talking mass death rates how about teen suicede? num 2 killer of the emos and teens in gen lol

Lol

At least I was keeping it to vehicles

A higher teen sucide rate would have a positive effect on street racing statistics. Cmon kids be part of the solution!

^its so sick how were joking about it, but ur actually right. car crashes is the number one killer of teens. so they could effectively swap if more people drink the kool-aid

Maybe by showing them a pile of crushed cars, and a few tragic events someone will stop and think before acting.

I'm saving my deep logic until someone makes a relatively convincing argument for street racing.

less hondas on the road

rn79870 wrote: I'm not sure of the official NICO position on streetracing,

AZhitman wrote:Our "official position" is, we don't condone or approve of racing anywhere but on the track.

What I, my staff, or any members here choose to do in their private life is their business.

I think that would constitute the "official position".

No one will make a convincing argument defending street racing, because it's retarded.

90% of the time, it's two 17-second POS cars with wet-behind-the-ears drivers with the bare minimum insurance and no skills other than pushing buttons on a game controller.

Regardless, I concur that the focus should consist of stiffer penalties (license revocations and mandatory community service) and move on.

DUI's are FAR more prevalent, and a recent stat out of AZ estimates 25% of drivers in a certain part of Phoenix on a Saturday night at 1 am are impaired beyond the legal limit.

DUI penalties are simply NOT harsh enough. Period.

rn79870 wrote:Maybe by showing them a pile of crushed cars, and a few tragic events someone will stop and think before acting.

I'm saving my deep logic until someone makes a relatively convincing argument for street racing.

not gonna change their minds dude.better start spweing now if u think ur gonna actually get a stubborn racer to change their minds. they are either A. retarded or B. know what they are doing but dont give a ****

You don't think pictures of crushed Subis and Integras will have some effect on them?

noI used to drive the tow truck around here and cleaned up the blood-soaked twisted results of failed street races and it never deterred me. The answer is support your local dragstrip. More strips with grudge nights to satisfy the desire to compete and stiffer penalties for those that choose to throw down at the stoplight.

I agree with the idea to have a street race night at some appropriate location. I also agree that stiffer penalties are in order.

Where we differ is in the fact that spreading the word will eventually work. Showing the results and the consequences may not be the fastest way but at least it has people thinking about alternate sites for racing.

rn79870 wrote:Maybe by showing them a pile of crushed cars, and a few tragic events someone will stop and think before acting.

We had to watch that crap in high school and it did relatively nothing.

rn79870 wrote:I'm saving my deep logic until someone makes a relatively convincing argument for street racing.

I don't expect to see anyone making an argument _for_ street racing.

I'd support that 100%.

Perhaps even some government subsidies for privately-owned tracks are in order.

Since the lefties love throwing money at a problem, let's start tthere.

Beats the hell out of the taxpayer-funded "free cab rides" we saw here for a while.

rn79870 wrote:Where we differ is in the fact that spreading the word will eventually work. Showing the results and the consequences may not be the fastest way but at least it has people thinking about alternate sites for racing.

They know and do it anyway. They see stuff like Faces of Death and they simply know it will never happen to them. Statistically they are probably correct.

Stiffer penalties are about the only thing that will teach most individuals, usually after the fact.

rn79870 wrote:I agree with the idea to have a street race night at some appropriate location. I also agree that stiffer penalties are in order.

Where we differ is in the fact that spreading the word will eventually work. Showing the results and the consequences may not be the fastest way but at least it has people thinking about alternate sites for racing.

Please know I am not trying to insult you but you could not be more wrong. People who do what they do, whatever it is, street racing, drugs, emoism, driving hyundais etc will not be deterred by any such campaigns. The percentage affected will be infintessimal.

How's the teen pregancy rate? Drug use? Dropout statistics? There is insurmountable proof that awareness does absolutely nothing to put a dent in any of these and street racing is no different.Armed with the knowledge of what does not work one must think about alternate routes to the goal. I suggest that there are two major groups within the populous of "streetracers"1. gloryhounds.These are usually younger and see streetracing as cool. It's not the racing that is cool nessesarily but the act of doing it on the street. They need to be seen by their peers engaging in it. These are the guys that want to race everybody at every light, do loser flybys, roll in slow dolled up cars with maintenance issues,hang out in parking lots fronting that they are the lords of the street etc.2. reluctant racers.I put myself in this category. These are often older persons but not exclusively, it's more of a mindset which is more likely found in those who have lived a while, understand that actions have consequences and they are not immortal but have an unshakable desire to compete and go fast. They will race but are the ones that first look ahead and weigh the conditions against what they personally feel is "safe". Everybody has a different level but the point is they are aware of what can happen and make a concious desision about if the road ahead is racable or not.

Neither group will be deterred by shock campaigns.the first group doesn't care, the second group has already weighed the dangers when computing their "racable conditions".

Fines, impounds, incarceration.These will deter a great deal of people in both groups. Nobody wants to lose thier car or go to jail.

Propagation of local tracks.There has to be a safe legal place to run. Racers need to race, it's damned near genetic. They must have a place they can go to get the fix. The availablity must be addressed in addition to the enforcement.

Speaking for myself, I have mellowed out quite a bit. The Japanese police have stepped up enforcement. Back in the day it was a joke but these days decidedly not. All the places I used to go are effectively dead. I am also no a solo act anymore. I don't want my wife to have to come to the morgue and identify my body nor do I want to destroy someone else's family. We have no legal place to run where I live so every now and then when I find myself at a light or on a roll and encounter someone else who is game I do my scan, make my choice and when I feel it "safe" run. If I had a track here though I would likely not do it as much or at all.