Take your BS comments to GC please. This is supposed to be a fairly serious forum. I didn't make any other posts in this thread cause you friggin ruined it with drivel.

WD

^haha im bsing cause people are saying the same things over and over. I think people hit the nail on the head on the first page when they said people who race are gonna do it regardless and it would be nigh impossible to stop them or try to "educate" them.

I agree with you...but still.

^hahah ok as long as u know im right ill stop now.

Aw hell, I just couldn't stay away from this one...

First, I will say that I agree with Matt that there should be stiffer penalties for all aspects of automotive dumbass-itude. Whether it be racing/contests of speed, drunk driving, careless/reckless driving, or even staying up 22 hours straight and then climbing behind the wheel.

That said, I think that fatalities resulting from street racing are both more probable and extremely preventable. Not that driving drunk/tired/like an @ss aren't preventable as well. But it seems like death is more of a sure thing when people are pushing their cars to speeds much higher than safe or legal on roads not intended for such. Regardless, a crackdown on all stupid driving is more than reasonable.

People tend to forget that driving is a privilege and not a right. Personally, I think that if driving were truly treated like a privilege (by means of hardcore penalties for the abuse of such), it would cut down on a fair amount of the shenanigans. I realize that I would not stop all from doing so (as there are some breathtakingly stupid people out there), but it would at least provide incentive for some to take pause and consider their actions and the associated consequences.

Mind you, these are merely my ideals, and I have not given thought as to how practical they may be. But, it sounds good to me, and that's all that matters. Ha!

The problem I have with simply making blanket laws is that it will give police the opportunity to more focus on these laws in order to make additional income instead of focusing on crime. As an example, spinning tires could easily be considered an "exhibition of speed" or "street racing" and be lumped in with two people going at it side-by-side.

If you really want to completely end speeding and racing then go ahead and put laws in place with car manufacturers to limit the potential output of cars themselves and completely outlaw cars on the road that do not meet those laws as well. That would solve the problem. would it not?

At what point do you actually set the bar? Nobody needs a car with high amounts of hp and I would assume they do not have the right to such either

Sil40_Mayhem wrote:
....That said, I think that fatalities resulting from street racing are both more probable and extremely preventable....

That is the point too many here are missing. Sticking your head in the sand instead of standing up and protesting something earns you the right to suffer from it in the long run. One life isn't too many to save, even if it's someone else's life.

^spining ur tires is reckless driving where i live and u do get a ticket for it.

Eikon wrote:My big beef with the whole topic is how two-faced people are about it.

Street Racing was glorified in the 60's and 70's. Mustangs, Camaro's, etc... were marketed to people as "racers" right off the showroom floor.

Why is it that the same people who glorified it in their youth now condemn it today?

Hypocrits!!!

Loud Pipes Save Lives according to Harley Davidson riders. The decibel levels dwarf almost any "tuner" car. Yet our two-faced law enforcement seems to think the kids in their cars deserve harassment while the harley riders get salutes.

Hypocrits!!!

Now, I'm not saying "street racing" is a good thing. I'm not saying it should be legal. But I think the crackdown is excessive due to its hypocricy.

I honestly feel that there is some age descrimination at play.

You're missing one big point here. In the era of Mustang and Camaros, streets were not as crowded. I remember driving up 805 after it opened and being the only car in site. No traffic at 6PM. Now, it's stop and go. Now, there are many times more people on the road., The chances of an accident are greatly increased. Search google for street racing accidents and you'll get pages of hits. I don't remember a single street racing accident when I was growing up. I remember 413/426 Dodges, 396/427 Chevies and 406/427/8/9 Fords. No one raced from stoplights that I ever saw. Of course, we had Carlsbad Raceway a few miles away.

Cold_Zero wrote:I wouldnt mind if the soccer moms with their SUV's weaving in and out of traffic on the cell phone and yelling at their kids, had their SUV's crushed for driving while distracted.

excellent point...

I've been around the racers and raced a few times. I will never do it again. Mostly because the majority of the people doing it are stupid kids. I drive usually about 5-10 over depending on the speed of the cars around me (you gotta know atlanta to understand that) Honestly, even though I am avidly against street racing. Mostly because there are legal and safer outlets for people to pursue their adrenaline rush. I am just disgusted at the attitudes and wanna-be mentality that many of the street racers exhibit. Its an "I dont care about anyone else, its about what I do and I dont care how it could effect anyone else, this is my world and F*&k you if you don't like it"

Now I pray that when some of you have families, that they are not harmed by someone with the same attitude as you all....

in fact just a couple of weeks ago, some kid was reported driving well over 100 miles and hour on the interstate in a red (integra?) the end result, a family killed and one or two other people. Go sit in a room with their surviving families and tell them you are going to drive how you want, when and where you want

BTW, brake checking and tailgating in atlanta has been known to get people killed. Is it really worth it? for you to get there a few minutes earlier...is it worth it? Is it worth it so you can look at some other person and tell them my car is faster than yours...seriously!

If my family is on the other end of your mistake...

audtatious wrote:The problem I have with simply making blanket laws is that it will give police the opportunity to more focus on these laws in order to make additional income instead of focusing on crime. As an example, spinning tires could easily be considered an "exhibition of speed" or "street racing" and be lumped in with two people going at it side-by-side.

Are you advocating the abolition of the enforcement of traffic laws? Street racing requires 2 cars. Anything else is exhibition of speed or reckless driving, if that. I'm not talking about some guy who accelerates away from a stoplight and lets off below the speed limit. I'm talking about two retards running down a city street, with no regard for anyone else who happens to be on that street. They are raising my insurance rates and yours too.

Enough people ran red lights. Society responded with red light cameras. Enough people are speeding down certain streets, and society responded with Radar cameras ( here in CA). Yet people are complaining that their rights are being violated by this.

First, I never said my thoughts were necessarily practical. Hence the use of 'ideals'.

What I had in mind concerning penalties from bad driving (again, dreamed up in my head; not meant to be a legal dissertation of any kind) involved at least a hearing for more severe infractions (street racing, reckless endangerment, drunk driving, or anything actually resulting in a fatality or severe injury). Statutes would have to be set, of course, and evidence would have to be presented (therefore, spinning a tire would not be grounds for having your car crushed, for example). No, I'm not suggesting some form of Orwellian 'Big Brother' control of all things auto (i.e. the electronic governors and other nannies you suggested), but rather stiffer penalties for completely bone-headed acts. I understand what you're saying about weighing liberties versus the maintaining of order. However, much like our penal system, I think there is room for improvement. When you have people bragging about how prison is nothing, how many times they've been, how they don't care about going back, and how good it is on the inside compared to where they came from, that's a problem. The same attitude applied to overly laxed road laws (so the 'man' can't pick on poor, harmless auto enthusiasts a.k.a. "Johnny Ricer and the TF&TF street racing crew") would allow for even more lives needlessly put at risk.

Anarchy is not the answer to oppression and vice versa. I'm not in favor of either, but I can't help but to think there has to be a better way of convincing idiots not to be themselves behind the wheel.

rn79870 wrote:
You're missing one big point here. In the era of Mustang and Camaros, streets were not as crowded. I remember driving up 805 after it opened and being the only car in site. No traffic at 6PM. Now, it's stop and go. Now, there are many times more people on the road., The chances of an accident are greatly increased. Search google for street racing accidents and you'll get pages of hits. I don't remember a single street racing accident when I was growing up. I remember 413/426 Dodges, 396/427 Chevies and 406/427/8/9 Fords. No one raced from stoplights that I ever saw. Of course, we had Carlsbad Raceway a few miles away.

So street racing is only bad on busy streets?

Then it's perfectly fine late at night in an industrial park? Or out in the country? What if kids block off a road out in the sticks?

I've heard tons of stories of people destroying their muscle cars and getting into accidents while performing "acts of speed" in their hot rods from that time period.

The only difference I see is societies view on the issue. It's a generation of hypocrites. The "woodstock" generation has now pulled a complete 180 and is totally against all the things they did when they were young.

Here's the real reason that I am against the crackdown on street racing...

Kids today are starving for something to be into. I can't think of a better hobby or love than cars!!! Kids who are into cars will hopefully spend their time and money on that rather than drugs, parties, crime, etc... I'm not saying they don't cross over, but it certainly helps.

The Tuner car hobby is a great thing. It actually teaches kids a ton about working with their hands, engineering, electrical, etc... Beats the hell out of video games, etc...

Sure, you're going to have some byproducts of the hobby.. Kids being dumb and irresponsible is going to happen. I agree that sucks. We can never condone street racing.

But I think we need to tackle this in a different fashion.

Rather than completely destroying the hobby as a whole by bringing down the hammer on the whole thing.... perhaps we can build more tracks? Make it less expensive for kids to get to the track? Lighten up on the "mods". Why do we have to restrict exhausts and other modificiations??

Eikon wrote:
The only difference I see is societies view on the issue. It's a generation of hypocrites. The "woodstock" generation has now pulled a complete 180 and is totally against all the things they did when they were young.

this is true...but i think its called "learning from your mistakes" The woodstock generation is the same generation that helped to promote free spirited-ness (if that is a word)...they also helped the spread of STD's and arguably aided in the exponential growth of americas drug problem, and im not talking wacky weed, im talking serious narcotics.

If we don't learn from mistakes then we will continue to be a society of fools, led by the foolish, and persecuting the wise.

Eikon wrote:
So street racing is only bad on busy streets?

Then it's perfectly fine late at night in an industrial park? Or out in the country? What if kids block off a road out in the sticks?

I've heard tons of stories of people destroying their muscle cars and getting into accidents while performing "acts of speed" in their hot rods from that time period.

The only difference I see is societies view on the issue. It's a generation of hypocrites. The "woodstock" generation has now pulled a complete 180 and is totally against all the things they did when they were young.

Could it also be that they grew older, matured, and learned the error of their way? Should not a recovering alcohol denounce the very thing that once enjoyed (possibly) more than anything in the world? Would that make him a hypocrite as well?

It's like the same lame arguments that a kid would use against their parent: "Well, YOU used to do it. Why can't I?" There is a laundry list of things I've done that I would never condone for my children (or anyone else's, for that matter). Maybe it's splitting hairs, but to me, the definition of a hypocrite is someone how professes one thing, but actively does the opposite. In other words, if you you're not partaking in that which you speak out against, you are not a hypocrite (even if you used to do it). A great example of a hypocrite would be the (mostly Republican) congressmen who denounced homosexuality from the rooftops, and then got busted in gay sex scandals.

EDIT:

Eikon wrote:Rather than completely destroying the hobby as a whole by bringing down the hammer on the whole thing.... perhaps we can build more tracks? Make it less expensive for kids to get to the track? Lighten up on the "mods". Why do we have to restrict exhausts and other modificiations??

I completely agree with you here, though I don't think anyone is actively advocating the destruction of a beloved hobby. Only the unsafe practices which are an unfortunate byproduct of such.

Still, I'm all for more tracks and more reasonably priced access to to events in a controlled (and more importantly) legal environment. Whether we like it or not, a motor vehicle (much like a firearm) has the potential to be a lethal instrument (I would say weapon, but it's not often people are intentionally mowed down with a car). It would be a different story if someone were accidentally shot because some yahoo says "I got this gun, but the range is too far/expensive, so I thought I'd just shoot it here but be really careful." A bit of a stretch, but it gets the point across. The use of multi-thousand pound vehicles traveling at high speeds or at the limits of their cornering/braking ability should be regulated to a controlled environment, just like firearms IMO.

But that doesn't mean that people who enjoy their vehicles (and making them faster) should be left out in the cold.
Modified by Sil40_Mayhem at 3:49 PM 5/6/2008

i read this whole thread and i dont really want to get into it, but one thing i will say is that parts of the system are backwards. things like dui, reckless endangerment, street racing etc dont seem strict enough while just normal traffic tickets, speeding and whatnot, are way to strict

White Comet wrote:i read this whole thread and i dont really want to get into it, but one thing i will say is that parts of the system are backwards. things like dui, reckless endangerment, street racing etc dont seem strict enough while just normal traffic tickets, speeding and whatnot, are way to strict

rn79870 wrote:
Are you advocating the abolition of the enforcement of traffic laws? Street racing requires 2 cars. Anything else is exhibition of speed or reckless driving, if that. I'm not talking about some guy who accelerates away from a stoplight and lets off below the speed limit. I'm talking about two retards running down a city street, with no regard for anyone else who happens to be on that street. They are raising my insurance rates and yours too.

Of course I'm not advocating the abolition of the enforcement of traffic laws. My whole point is what is considered street racing and what is not and making sure blanket laws are not thrown out to punish more people for the stupidity of the few.

rn79870 wrote:Enough people ran red lights. Society responded with red light cameras. Enough people are speeding down certain streets, and society responded with Radar cameras ( here in CA). Yet people are complaining that their rights are being violated by this.

And red light cameras are being utilized as money generators in a large number of cities. Shorten the yellow and you get a ticket, thus instant revenue for the city/county. Again, my point is a death correlation and whether those who run red lights should have similar penalties to those who get caught racing.

Eikon wrote:
So street racing is only bad on busy streets?

Then it's perfectly fine late at night in an industrial park? Or out in the country? What if kids block off a road out in the sticks?

I've heard tons of stories of people destroying their muscle cars and getting into accidents while performing "acts of speed" in their hot rods from that time period.

The only difference I see is societies view on the issue. It's a generation of hypocrites. The "woodstock" generation has now pulled a complete 180 and is totally against all the things they did when they were young.

No, street racing is deadly on busy streets. It's bad (dangerous) everywhere. Times are different. When I was young, I could fire a .22 in my backyard without a problem. If I tried that today, I'd have the swat team on my a$$. Times, they have changed.

Yes, the older generation is against many things being done by the younger generation. It's not hypocritical, it's called learning by your mistakes.

audtatious wrote:And red light cameras are being utilized as money generators in a large number of cities. Shorten the yellow and you get a ticket, thus instant revenue for the city/county. Again, my point is a death correlation and whether those who run red lights should have similar penalties to those who get caught racing.

First of all, they have already gotten a black eye from the shortened yellow thing. Now they are all in the 3 to 4 second range...

And red light violations are $375. Street racing is over $1000 plus 30 days loss of car (last time I checked). Some places, the car gets crushed. We really can't talk about which is the most evil of the evil events. We need to talk about the things we can fix.

Sil40_Mayhem wrote:First, I never said my thoughts were necessarily practical. Hence the use of 'ideals'.

Of course...Don't take my posts as being pissy

Sil40_Mayhem wrote:What I had in mind concerning penalties from bad driving (again, dreamed up in my head; not meant to be a legal dissertation of any kind) involved at least a hearing for more severe infractions (street racing, reckless endangerment, drunk driving, or anything actually resulting in a fatality or severe injury). Statutes would have to be set, of course, and evidence would have to be presented (therefore, spinning a tire would not be grounds for having your car crushed, for example). No, I'm not suggesting some form of Orwellian 'Big Brother' control of all things auto (i.e. the electronic governors and other nannies you suggested), but rather stiffer penalties for completely bone-headed acts. I understand what you're saying about weighing liberties versus the maintaining of order. However, much like our penal system, I think there is room for improvement. When you have people bragging about how prison is nothing, how many times they've been, how they don't care about going back, and how good it is on the inside compared to where they came from, that's a problem. The same attitude applied to overly laxed road laws (so the 'man' can't pick on poor, harmless auto enthusiasts a.k.a. "Johnny Ricer and the TF&TF street racing crew") would allow for even more lives needlessly put at risk.

Anarchy is not the answer to oppression and vice versa. I'm not in favor of either, but I can't help but to think there has to be a better way of convincing idiots not to be themselves behind the wheel.

Again, it's going to happen regarless of laws. I'm not saying we should simply accept it at all. What I don't want to happen is the "big brother" mentality and 0 tolerance laws that some like to empose. Those who argue to get these laws in usually like to correlate "activity" in that they could easily press forth that spinning tires is a correlated activity to street racing and that person should be punished at all costs.

rn79870 wrote:
First of all, they have already gotten a black eye from the shortened yellow thing. Now they are all in the 3 to 4 second range...

And red light violations are $375. Street racing is over $1000 plus 30 days loss of car (last time I checked). Some places, the car gets crushed. We really can't talk about which is the most evil of the evil events. We need to talk about the things we can fix.

I'm not asking what is the most evil, I'm just showing the similarity of activites that stupid people do that cause similar deaths yearly. Someone is stupid and kills someone street racing and someone is stupid and kills someone while running a red light. Both involve people making decisions to do something knowing the outcome can result in a wreck and death. In that case, wouldn't both be the same and have similar penalties? Not all red light runners cause accidents or kill people similar to the fact that not all street racers do either. Again, similar decisions with similar outcome and number of deaths. Both involve cars and personal decisions.

You do realize that I do not approve of street racing, right?

audtatious wrote:
Of course...Don't take my posts as being pissy

Again, it's going to happen regarless of laws. I'm not saying we should simply accept it at all. What I don't want to happen is the "big brother" mentality and 0 tolerance laws that some like to empose. Those who argue to get these laws in usually like to correlate "activity" in that they could easily press forth that spinning tires is a correlated activity to street racing and that person should be punished at all costs.

It wasn't taken that way. The reminder was more to say, "I'm talking out of my @ss here, so don't expect formidable responses."

I get what you're saying. What it appears to boil down to is that there will be abuse on either side (law enforcement for grouping non-related offenses together, riceboys for trying to be 'smooth criminals' with minimal fear of consequences). Also on the list of ridiculous was someone else's point (either in this thread or a different one) about loud exhaust tickets when Harleys (and other chopper/cruiser style bikes) set off car alarms regularly without so much as a warning. Yes, there is a desperate need for more balance in laws and penalties. It's the human factor, I suppose. In a perfect world... scratch that, even a perfect world wouldn't be perfect.

audtatious wrote:. Someone is stupid and kills someone street racing and someone is stupid and kills someone while running a red light. Both involve people making decisions to do something knowing the outcome can result in a wreck and death. In that case, wouldn't both be the same and have similar penalties? Not all red light runners cause accidents or kill people similar to the fact that not all street racers do either. Again, similar decisions with similar outcome and number of deaths. Both involve cars and personal decisions.

You do realize that I do not approve of street racing, right?

Matt, I know you are not defending street racing. You're question the validity of singling it out. I'm promoting the validity of singling it out because it is another step in making the streets safer.

Red light cameras worked, at least, at the intersections where they are installed. Many drivers inattentively run red lights. Few if any street racers inattentively street race.

The answer is to address the need for off street events on a regular basis, sanctioned and staffed by volunteer professional medical, etc personnel. The answer is for those who have the need to make their point known to the proper bodies and get these events sanctioned, and thereafter, help in keeping all racing limited to the events.

No arguement out of me....

Some stupid kid is racing and caught? Yank his license for X amount of time and penalize the sh1t outta him with community service and additional "use" limitations on the vehicle for a further X number of years. Caught multiple times? Take his license for twice as long, double the community service and take the car away to be auctioned (proceeds to some program or charity).

audtatious wrote:No arguement out of me....

Some stupid kid is racing and caught? Yank his license for X amount of time and penalize the sh1t outta him with community service and additional "use" limitations on the vehicle for a further X number of years. Caught multiple times? Take his license for twice as long, double the community service and take the car away to be auctioned (proceeds to some program or charity).

,

See, you're soft on crime. I'd demand a bilateral orchiectomy for the first offense.

rn79870 wrote:Many drivers inattentively run red lights.

And that makes it ok how? They still killed more people than street racers

I know, I know, not what you meant.

rn79870 wrote:The answer is to address the need for off street events on a regular basis, sanctioned and staffed by volunteer professional medical, etc personnel. The answer is for those who have the need to make their point known to the proper bodies and get these events sanctioned, and thereafter, help in keeping all racing limited to the events.

Some people simply are not going to travel to one of these events. Hell, they have street races here and there is a 1/8th mile track only about 1/2 an hour from downtown. They also have SCCA events around here constantly.

I'm just sayin

I hang out with the racer crowd. We don't race in crowded area's and we don't race where your kid is going to cross the road in front of us.

We do race and will continue to race in industrial parks and area's of the like simply because we really enjoy it. We're not endangering anyone but the people there to participate. It's not like the friggin movie F&F so just stop using that as an example. We don't park down the strip as cars whip past.

I'm tired of everyone lumping us together with ricers. We aren't friggin ricers...so just stop with that crap. We aren't all stupid kids, I'm 33, have been through college, have been in 3 fvcking foreign wars now.

Bob you live in CA, it's crowded there and I'm sorry for that. People who race through suburbia aren't "racers" per se, they are just stupid people that don't care about anyone but themselves. But you CAN NOT make blanket statements that cover all of us. You can not assume that everywhere is crowded.

I have been street racing since 92, I have never seen a fatal accident. Heck, I have only seen a handful of accidents period.

Whats my point? Stop lumping us all together and making it appear that every circumstance where we race on the street is the same and that the outcome is bad. Because you are simply wrong.

WD

Brian. We're talking about street racing here. Idiots running from stoplight to stoplight, he11 fire and d@mn the law racing. I'm not really so concerned about what a couple of guys do out on the north 40, in the middle of the night.

Look at the forums. There are those bragging about racing a Widget from a stoplight, on a public street, and beating him by 3 lengths at 100 mph. I remember a guy talking about doing 130mph in a Washington DC street and another poster pointed out was a 30 mph zone he was racing in. Or racing a turbo slugbox three times from three stoplights and pulled him from 80 on two out of three times. I doubt you are defending that idiotic stuff. I doubt you would let such a post remain.