It's a long shot, but here it goes.....

[fiveliterbeater]

well i tried calling skunk2 racing to see if they can make a plenum spacer for the M45 and they pretty much said no......unless they get a huge demand. the price would be $185.so if maybe the moderators can turn this thread into a sticky, we can get all of the M45 owners to make a pledge and show interest in this product and try to get at least 50 people interested, then we can show them that we would like to see this mod to be made. i doubt ill be able to get that many but lets see, maybe i'm wrong. so who is interested?

[SteveTheTech]

If the demand is there I am for a making this a sticky but I do not have the final word on that.

If you have ever pulled the plenum on one of these you will see that the design is surprisingly simple and efficient. I am skeptical if a plenum spacer will have the same benefits that it does in the early VQ.



It's hard to explain how it actually works without better detailed images. Long complicated story short, it uses a vacuum actuator to open a secondary set of butterflies to allow maximum volume. I am doubting a spacers will actually help. I think it might actually hinder performance, during high engine load situations where more air is needed as quickly as possible. I really don't know though that is my assessment of what is on top of your engine.

[fiveliterbeater]

well correct me if im wrong but to my understanding, the spacer is to delay the un-evitable heat soak that rises up to the intake manifold robbing the engine of a few ponies. i would think that with a spacer, it would take much longer for heat to find it's way up to the plenum therefore retaining maximum HP at all times. and besides, when i visit the G35 forums, they have nothing but good things to say about the spacer and they consider it a must have for a few extra ponies. maybe the architecture is different from the VQ to the VK? is that why you think this mod may not help us out that much?

[ken in az]

If anything the spacer would decrease the heat soak of the aluminum manifold. I doubt that it would have any real effects other than a cooler air charge which is debatable as far as power output is concerned.

What I'd really like to know - and one of my main reasons for not pursuing a plenum spacer - is to see if a Titan 5.6 VK intake manifold from 07 - 08 would bolt to our engine.

I know the vk56 has a higher deck height and different cylinder heads so there is more of a chance that it would not fit, but just wondering if anyone could try - and or measure the bolt spacing from head to head on a VK56 as compared to a vk45.

Worth a shot and even if we loose the "power valve" in the M45 intake - from what I've seen we'd really only loose up top and get more down low in the rpm band. If one were to go forced induction - this would be a way to keep our fragile little pistons alive a little bit longer.

[szh]

Folks, I like to avoid too many stickies for a few simple reasons:

1. They actually tend not to get read, except for people who are coming in new to the Forum and then the title has to grab them. Just because they are at the top of the forum, there is a general "oh, just the stickies ... I already read them" kind of reaction to them.

2. Too many stickies clutter up the page as well ... there are some example of NICO forums where I think things have gone too far with too many stickies overboard.

What I would like to suggest to you guys is pop in (daily or sooner, if you want) and bump the thread .. (just a simple post with a "bump" in it) so that it comes to the top of the forum regularly. Then, it will get the attention it needs ...

Hope that works for you all!

Z

[SteveTheTech]

Folks, I like to avoid too many stickies for a few simple reasons

Great reasons, I completely agree with you. This forum unlike many others both here and abroad are cluttered with unattractive stickies that push relavant information farther down the page. Although some forums do not fancy the "bump". That makes perfect logical sense, however if interest warrants this topic will remain visible to the casual traffic.

[SteveTheTech]

Heat soak and I do not really see eye to eye in 95% of geographic locations.

This is up there with grounding kits in my books.

I am highly skeptical about the benefits of a thermal isolating gasket between two metal components that exchange heat as part of the normal operation. What are the temperature benefits of insulating the upper plenum on an M45? Without decreasing overall engine bay temperatures any benefit will be percieved. I was thinking initially that the spacer was to increase travel or something and not thermal isolation. Now I may be off in left field but as part of normal operation the internal engine components transfer heat to keep at their ideal operating temperature (~200F) getting the engine up to this temperature quickly was one of the primary design focuses of the VK45.

The amount of time the air spends in the intake plenum is so short, especially under load. Cruising at lets say 2500rpms (in any gear) and at 35-45% load (depending on throttle angle and accessory load) the MAF is intaking between 30 and 50 grams per second. The amount of time it takes to move the air from the MAF to the intake valves cannot be too long. I suck at math and Google so I cannot convert the speed and distance numbers to something more relevant.

Now if we could develop a way to actively cool the air while retaining the aerodynamic properties of the intake and runner assembly then you would be able to see some improvement in actual intake air temperature. But the computer will still use the calculation from the MAF to determine it's intake air temperature. And no putting a resistor in that circuit will not help.

[joker350gt]

hey guys wasssss upppppp???

hey well i think i remember someone ask tony at motordyne about a spacer for the M45 and i think his response was that it wouldnt work due to the pendlum design

in the vq the only reason it works is because cyls 5 and 6 the closest ones to the grill received less are dude to the angle of the design i gess that was why the mvrev and spacer work so wells becuase it feeds more air to those 2 since in stock form they recive less air

on the M45 the design was pretty flush for all cyl so it had no effects

but again i dont remember how accurte that was and its been a while since i seen that thread

o yea my spelling sucks sorry

[kingpin]

that is why you are a super mod ..... keep things in line ..

btw never seen pictures of your M , i have the same paint ....

[szh]

btw never seen pictures of your M , i have the same paint ....

An old picture in this thread ... in the first post.

zerothread/127496

Z

[Backdoc7]

well.. after reading the above posts, for what it's worth, if it was shown to make HP, i'd be interested at that price point.. so there.. there's 1 of 50 needed!

I'm in desperate need of more ponies for my M45.

[M4T5]

If it did increase performance, it would be in the upper mid to upper rpm ranges.It may even impact low end torque. Shorter intake runners give more low end torque, but may limit the upper rpm power.Longer intake runners give more mid to upper rpm power, but sacrifices low rpm power.I was thinking the spacer was for just lengthening the intake runners, rather than decreasing heat soak. I'm not sure how much power would actually be created or lost with just a spacer. The heat soak temp decrease from the use of a composite spacer would probably be very minimal due to the under hood temps getting very hot anyways.Would be pretty "cool" if it worked out like it would be expected to.

J

[ken in az]

If it did increase performance, it would be in the upper mid to upper rpm ranges.It may even impact low end torque. Shorter intake runners give more low end torque, but may limit the upper rpm power.Longer intake runners give more mid to upper rpm power, but sacrifices low rpm power.I was thinking the spacer was for just lengthening the intake runners, rather than decreasing heat soak. I'm not sure how much power would actually be created or lost with just a spacer. The heat soak temp decrease from the use of a composite spacer would probably be very minimal due to the under hood temps getting very hot anyways.Would be pretty "cool" if it worked out like it would be expected to.

J

It's actually the other way around. Longer for torque - shorter for HP

plenum spacers have proven themselves in other cars not just the VQ. Pretty much every car I've seen makes torq and hp on an average of 4-7hp and 4-7tq. These cars have all been dyno tested same day, temp, and whatever.

These cars the plenum spacer as a direct function has no impact on injector spray patterns and that is where our engine differs from the others. We may gain all the aformentioned benefits but because we increased the distance of the injector to vale then now the spray pattern is off potentially causing drivability problems.

Another reason why I abandoned the idea...I really would like to see a vk56 intake on a vk45 - the whole damn thing is plastic so no need for a phoenolic spacer then! We'd just loose the power valve and gain longer runners.

I have tuned cars with short runners and long runners on same day - same dyno and the longer runners have had no ill effects on top end power - this would be on a smaller displacement v6 tho.

[GJEMD]

Correct me, but isn't the intake on the VK made out of nylon or some composite of nylon. Would this not max out heat dissipation.

[ken in az]

Correct me, but isn't the intake on the VK made out of nylon or some composite of nylon. Would this not max out heat dissipation.

VK45 = Dual plane aluminum manifold with power valve for higher RPM and idle operation.

VK56 = Nylon/Plastic/Composite Material with long runners, no power valve

You are correct, the VK56 would be better in regards to heat conductivity - If that would help or hurt our car is the question since we gain a lighter more heat resictant material but loose the power valve - do we really even need it?

Actually today I'll zip tie it(power valve) open and see if that does anything - lol

I honestly don't think we do, but obviously I can't prove it just sitting here.

[GJEMD]

The 4.5 L (4494 cc) VK45DE was introduced in 2002 and is built in Yokohama, Japan. Bore is 93 mm (3.7 in) and stroke is 82.7 mm (3.26 in). Output is 340 hp (254 kW) at 6400 rpm with 333 ft·lbf (451 Nm) of torque at 4000 rpm. Redline is at 6600 rpm. It has an aluminum engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with VVT and features forged steel connecting rods, a one-piece cast camshaft, and an unusual nylon intake manifold, variable-flow induction system optimizes airflow for low- and high-speed operation and low-friction molybdenum-coated pistons and microfinished crankshaft. Wikipedia

[ken in az]

The 4.5 L (4494 cc) VK45DE was introduced in 2002 and is built in Yokohama, Japan. Bore is 93 mm (3.7 in) and stroke is 82.7 mm (3.26 in). Output is 340 hp (254 kW) at 6400 rpm with 333 ft·lbf (451 Nm) of torque at 4000 rpm. Redline is at 6600 rpm. It has an aluminum engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with VVT and features forged steel connecting rods, a one-piece cast camshaft, and an unusual nylon intake manifold, variable-flow induction system optimizes airflow for low- and high-speed operation and low-friction molybdenum-coated pistons and microfinished crankshaft. Wikipedia

Find me a VK45 with a Nylon intake manifold and I'll give you $100 - seriously

Our VK45 and all previous VK45 have Aluminum Dual "PATH" (sorry messed that up in earlier post) Intake manifold. A vacuum actuator controls a second set of butterfly's in the intake manifold. They open in High RPM and High Load conditions to allow better breathing. They are also open durring idle.

VK56 is made of a composite material - Nylon or whatever it is I don't know.

[New2Import]

Screw the spacer. We need a composite intake. The spacer will help with low end but hurt high end. Composite will keep the band where it should be. This engine has potential but what company is gonna start making parts is the question.

[fiveliterbeater]

well im trying the best i can in my spare time to try and get some companies to design some mods for us but no luck yet : ( ill keep trying though.