Is this a good deal - how do you buy?

[EdBwoy]

I am curious about something here. How do you go about shopping for a used car and deciding what you are comfortable paying?

Basic pricing
1. Do you go by book value? (Kelley bluebook, NADA etc...)
2. Do you look around you and just see what most are asking for?
3. Would you look further if the car is a deal that offsets the travel/ shipping costs?
4. Do you just buy the cheapest M35 or M45 you can find around you?


Added value - are you willing to pay extra for modifications/ things not very common?
1. Detailing - do you pay more for a super clean car, or do you pay less for a dirty car?
2. Tinted windows
3. Aftermarket wheels
4. Big brake kits
5. Exhaust modification, like the Stillen kit
6. Premium package features

• I'll explain here better. A fully loaded 08 non-sport M stickered for approx $11,000 more than a basic-feature vehicle with the same drivetrain. For example you found one of each, say a plain 6-speaker M35 model versus one with everything plus the reclining seats. Both have 150k miles and everything else is similar, how much more are you willing to pay for the premium? Does it matter to you?

True condition
1. What matters most - how it drives or how it looks?

• Can you ignore some cosmetic issues for a smooth drivetrain or do you prefer a looker and you'll work on drivability with time?

2. Does accident history or prior salvage title matter to you?
3. Do you pay more for a car with extensive dealership records?
4. Do you trust people that do their own maintenance?
5. Would you pay more if I spent good money on maintenance recently - fluid flushes, new filters, tires, etc?
6. How about an engine. If my shell has 250k miles and the engine has 50k miles, where do you think a seller should fairly value it?

I wanted to keep an open mind to see what a sample of Infiniti M owners (or future owners) considered to be important criteria when looking around.

[pedsemdoc]

I am curious about something here. How do you go about shopping for a used car and deciding what you are comfortable paying?

Basic pricing
1. Do you go by book value? (Kelley bluebook, NADA etc...) Not necessarily, I look at those websites, + I also look at cargurus.com, Carfax.com, autotrader.com, , to see what prices are being asked for
2. Do you look around you and just see what most are asking for? Yes, to get a rough ballpark of what the asking price is
3. Would you look further if the car is a deal that offsets the travel/ shipping costs? Absolutely, I have a friend who will fly to anywhere in the CONUS and drive it home
4. Do you just buy the cheapest M35 or M45 you can find around you? No, cheapest doesn't always mean the best deal


Added value - are you willing to pay extra for modifications/ things not very common?
1. Detailing - do you pay more for a super clean car, or do you pay less for a dirty car? Depends, surface grime and ground in dirt - I think I can handle. I would break out the carpet shampoo machine, toothbrushes, etc. and detail it back to new (I like detailing, so that would be fun). "Other dirty" eg. A smoker's car is a whole lot more work to get the smell out, or dog pee/human vomit - I might have second thoughts about buying that car, or at least would want a reduction in price.
2. Tinted windows If the tint job looks good, I'd pay
3. Aftermarket wheels Again, depends on the brand and if I thought it looked good on the car
4. Big brake kits YES
5. Exhaust modification, like the Stillen kit YES
6. Premium package features YES, but there is a caveat - those items can be pricey if not functioning or are prone to break/malfunction

• I'll explain here better. A fully loaded 08 non-sport M stickered for approx $11,000 more than a basic-feature vehicle with the same drivetrain. For example you found one of each, say a plain 6-speaker M35 model versus one with everything plus the reclining seats. Both have 150k miles and everything else is similar, how much more are you willing to pay for the premium? Does it matter to you?

True condition
1. What matters most - how it drives or how it looks? Since I don't have my own paint booth, I

• Can you ignore some cosmetic issues for a smooth drivetrain or do you prefer a looker and you'll work on drivability with time?

2. Does accident history or prior salvage title matter to you? YES
3. Do you pay more for a car with extensive dealership records? YES
4. Do you trust people that do their own maintenance? YES, if they have documentation
5. Would you pay more if I spent good money on maintenance recently - fluid flushes, new filters, tires, etc? YES
6. How about an engine. If my shell has 250k miles and the engine has 50k miles, where do you think a seller should fairly value it? That is a tough question...I would want to know the reason for the engine swap, what happened? I would also want to know about the history of the replacement engine, I would also ask about the parts that tend to wear out with that many miles to see if they had recently been serviced/changed: suspension components, brakes, etc. Is it an older car that has been driven that much, or a newer car that was driven a lot?? An older model car might not have the newer upgrades, better options than a newer model, ie 7 speed transmission vs 5 speed transmission. I would have to do a lot more research before coming up with a reasonable sale price.

I wanted to keep an open mind to see what a sample of Infiniti M owners (or future owners) considered to be important criteria when looking around.

I would probably look at a few owner's forums to see what common complaints enthusiasts/owner's were b*tching about and to see what some of the common problems are with that model. I did a ton of research before buying my son's 2009 Nissan Xterra SE 2WD, with 132K miles. 2009 was the last year it was supposed to happen in (and it was still relatively uncommon to have the "Strawberry Milkshake of Death" problem occur - this occurs when you have a leak in the radiator and it leaks into the transmission cooler, mixing the two) That was the first thing I checked to make sure that it hadn't had an issue. It was pretty much mint on the inside except for a couple of carpet stains, with a few scrapes /road rash on the front but no dents. I paid more than $2000 less than NADA clean retail value. But my wife and I probably drove almost every used Xterra in the Dallas/Ft Worth and surrounding area before coming across that one.
I am also in the market/researching for an aftermarket scanner (considering the Autel Maxisys Pro) that I would probably hook up to the car I am considering just to see if any codes show up and to see some real time numbers

Another hint is to take a good friend who also knows cars with you - hopefully they can stay objective and will help you from feeling the "love at first sight" and wanting to plop a downpayment right there on the spot.

[EdBwoy]

...But my wife and I probably drove almost every used Xterra in the Dallas/Ft Worth and surrounding area before coming across that one.

Lovely. Ever since I could afford some spare change, I have always said that I the best time to buy a car is before you need it. Urgency brings some rash decisions. Glad you guys got the right vehicle. Btw, just replace the radiator if it hasn't been replaced yet. The R51 pathfinders also had that issue, and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Craig, thanks for your input.
See, I used to switch cars too often that at some point I stopped modifying my cars to any permanent extent. "That nice tint, sound system you installed? Great, thanks... but we are only willing to pay KBB poor condition prices for your excellent condition car." I suppose that is the territory you play in when dealing with cheap cars. That was back when I was dabbling in Maximas.
I personally would go by maintenance record as I still do. I didn't want to save $500 buying a car if I had to spend $2,500 in a year to fix things the higher mileage one had already covered.

[Larz]

Good points! I am a loyal CarMax buyer. Aside from the 2017 Q60 that I bought form my dealer, I have always used CarMax locations near me. I know some have had trouble in their areas with this company, but I have bought 4 vehicles and each time the experience was 10 out of 10. I have never gotten a 'bad' deal or a bad car. I also get the Max Care warranty. It covers much more than the Infiniti warranty and lasts 5 years from the day you drive off or a total of 125,000 miles. I bought my current 09M three years ago and that warranty has covered everything but the tires, brakes and battery. Most recently, a $1,300 bill for a radiator, oxygen sensor, and anti freeze cost me $25 at Infiniti. It would have been free if I had it done at any CarMax location, but I would never let CarMax touch my car, LOL.
As for mileage / condition: I won't buy a used car from an individual - too many crap people here who will dump a gonner on you and smile. I will not consider ANY brand with more than 50k miles, I keep my all of my cars in pristine condition, so what I buy must be such that I can get it to pristine condition with a little work.
Since I want less than 50k miles, and a body / interior that is in really nice condition, my price range is sort of set already.
I prefer the car has NO modifications to exhaust, wheel, etc. I want to make those decisions for myself.
In terms of maintenance: with mileage under 50k, you can give the engine bay a good sqinz (look) and check things like power steering, belts, general level of dirt and muck about the area, etc. I usually plan on the added cost of changing all the fluids soon after purchase just to have a good start point moving forward.
To match all my requirements, I already know there will likely be nothing close to a 'bargain' among the cars I choose from, but since I don't do any electrical, engine, brake, or exhaust work myself, there are limits on every aspect of the car I buy.
As far as what is a good price: I look about at different dealers, online searches, etc so I know what the cars I want are selling (or at least listed) for. The only thin that would justify me paying higher than average is very low miles for the model year. If I saw a 2010 M with 25k miles, I would definitely pay considerably more than for a 2010 M with 20k more miles - assuming both are in similar condition regarding body / interior, etc.

[Giant Robo]

Here is the reality of any used car sales situation - the seller wants you to think that other buyers are coming in to buy the car very soon so he doesn't have to give you a discount. He wants you to think you need to pay his asking price or you will lose the car. At the same time the seller knows they have a rapidly depreciating asset on the lot that is costing them money every week it sits unsold. And it's a high mile high dollar used car with a somewhat limited appeal. So, in reality, you may be the only serious buyer for the LS that the seller has had any contact with in quite - but he will keep that a secret.

In the average, every day used car transaction the buyer has to realize that their only leverage point and power in the transaction comes from time. The seller wants to sell now this week, this month, as time goes by he loses money and also less and less buyers are interested in an older car.

So a smart buyer always conducts a transaction maximizing their leverage, dealing fairly with the seller, but always negotiating from the power position. The power position works like this - make what you consider a fair offer (do the research on latest market price, cost to do the required services) and make the offer by phone. This happens after you have gone to test drive the car and checked it out on site beforehand. So when you are ready to buy - call them up - ask for the sales manager specifically (not one of the salespeople) and make the offer - let's say something like 19500 minus 1500 for TB/WP services so you offer 18,000. So you say this - "I want to make you a firm offer of $18000 plus tax, tag and title drive out price, and not a penny more. My offer is 100% firm and it is good for 48 hours. After that point, I will likely be buying a different car from another dealer. So please call me if you want to sell the car immediately and I bring you a check for the exact amount of my offer and you give me the key." Give the sales manager your phone number thank them for their time and hang up. Under no circumstances get into a conversation about how much they paid, how high demand is, or any other BS they want to waste time talking about. And it's important to not physically go into the dealer and make a verbal offer - that significantly decreases your leverage and shows weakness transferring power back to the seller.

In the end, if you are making a fair offer at a fair market value and the dealer wants to sell the car immediately they will call you back and accept the offer. Remember they have an immediate firm offer from you and now time is on your side, and all the pressure is on the seller, they must find a buyer willing to pay more or else they lose an immediate sale. If they have other buyers ready and willing to pay above market price then you will not hear back. But you don't want to pay above market so let someone else do that. Another good car will come along - they always do.

People that go into a dealer and spend 3 hours supposedly "negotiating" the price are known as fish in the used car business. The used car guys are experts at maximizing selling price when the fish shows up and is willing to sit in their offices for hours - the huge time commitment just demonstrates to the seller how badly the fish wants the car being negotiated. So all the leverage and power in negotiating the transaction is now with the seller. And the seller has to be in his office at work anyway and is happy for the company of any buyers that want to come sit with him : )

Good luck.

[EdBwoy]

Robo, I follow your general principles. When buying either from a dealer or private party, I'm not interested in pounding them into a pulp by lowballing. I evaluate what that car is worth to me and make my offer. Most times it's fair and I make it clear I want to move quickly.

I am curious as to how you determine the value of a car to you - how do you decide the Dollar number to offer the seller?