Is it worth the $$... K&N CAI on a 3.5L?

[JonathanPrem]

That's crazy. I usually get 18L/100 but mostly city .

[sicwitit]

Fastpathy, I'm not being facisous at all, but why do you think conventional oil is superior to synthetic? From my understanding, the only engines that have seen a decrease in efficiancy are rotories (RX7, RX8, Cosmo, etc, etc). With today's advancement in technology, synthetics have been proven time and time again to out perform conventional in all aspects. I've posted here many times on my stance on this subject and can back up any information I give out through documented reports from the chemist whom I've learned under. but if you have some new information that can prove otherwise, I would like to hear it.

As far as the intake goes. I'm what you would say, on the fence about them. most of what people say is added horse power is in their head. You will hear the intake sound and think "my engine is breathing better so it must be better" but in reality that sound was always there, its just been baffled by the stock intake system. Now it is true your engine will breath better since you will unrestrict the flow of air into the engine, but your engine will compensate for this by adding more fuel to keep the A/F ratio stoichiometric. So in a sense you will add a couple ponys, but I have never been able to tell the difference of 1% to 2% increase in HP, unless were talking about a go-kart.

If you want to increase fuel milage, you need to determine 1 simple thing. What will decrease the resistance of my engine, and vehicle? many things can be looked at to include, but not limited to engine, areodynamics, drive train, and rolling resistance are a few that pop into mind. How far you are willing to attack each of these fields are up to you. I've seen up to 24mpg on the highway so far in my pathy, and 18 in the city, and as low as 10mpg with all my armor on, carring 4 other passengers, racks on top, cargo area filled, driving like a madman to go snowboarding. you get the idea.

[sicwitit]

the only way to get a true "ram air" effect is to place the intake above the aerodynamic profile of the vehicle. so basically, every car on the street today does not have a ram air hood scoop. if anything, a functional hood scoop only acts as a "cooler" cold air intake.

Well put, this is also why Subaru decided they need to add a water sprayer on the STi, since the hood scoop wasn't cooling the I/C as much as they previously thought it was.

[Pwnin O'Brien]

Fastpathy, I'm not being facisous at all, but why do you think conventional oil is superior to synthetic?

I don't think he's claiming that conventional oil is superior to synthetic oil, I think he uses conventional oil because the owners manual (and the FSM I believe) recommends the use of conventional over synthetic for the '03 and '04 models. I am not sure why, but it specifiaclly states that they do not recommend the use of synthetic engine oil in the Pathfinder for those two years. I still use fully synthetic.

[sicwitit]

I don't want to thread jack so I'm going to research why nissan makes this recommendation, and if they make it for all of their VQ35 engines, or for just the pathy? I could see why in the mid 90's auto companies would say not to use synthetics, but with companies like Amsoil, redline, etc, out there that have made hugh advancements in excluding substances that cause sludge, and increased longevity, and have found ways to improve the hydration of crank seals would be reguarded as a poor choice? something doesn't add up. so back on the intake subject, and I'll post my findings when I get them.....basically, I'm going to walk a couple blocks away and ask the techs at Nismo in downtown Tokyo what they think!

[fastpathy35]

im not sure how you got that i was even slightly bashing synthetic fluid out of what i said. i deliberately said "you arent supposed to use synthetic fluid" i then went on to ask someone who would know more about it because i wanted to use synthetic oil but didnt want to mess my truck up. i use synthetic fluid in everything i have. my racing fourwheeler, my dirtbike, my girlfriends car, even the lawn mower...youre preaching to the choir if you feel that you have to lead me to using synthetic fluid.

the purpose of that post was to give everyone an idea of my driving conditions, and upkeep of my pathfinder, so they may be able to make some changes to see if it helps their fuel economy.

Also, im sure there are people who have nothing good to say about k&n. I'm not a salesperson for them, i wont get any kind of comission, nor do i receive sponsorship from them. But, i bought the fipk, and i did get better fuel mileage, and i do feel a power difference. i roughly got 2 mpg better after the install, and i still get better than factory almost 3 years later.

like you said, you want to reduce drag on the car and driveline to increase efficiency. but you can do a few things to get a little better horse power, that way you arent having to push the pedal as hard in normal driving conditions. those mods only go so far before you start losing fuel mileage.

the numbers dont lie. like i said above ive gotten better fuel mileage, and my 1/8 mile times are fairly impressive. i dont know what a factory pathy runs, i didnt run mine, but a little over a month ago i went to open night at the drag strip and ran a 9.21 @ 86.3 mph. a friend of mine has a mustang gt with a few mods and runs a 9.10. granted his tires spin quite a bit but its not all about power if you cant put it down.

i agree with what you said 100%, on your post, and im thankful that youre a member here with the connections you have because you can do us a lot of good. i just think you jumped the gun a little quick.

[sicwitit]

my bad, I guess I kind of read into it a little bit. I'm still unsure why the owners manual recommends against synthetic? Nismo is closed today so I cant ask them yet, They should open back up on tuesday. I also support K&N filters, I have a drop in right now in my pathy, but like any good company, they have a great marketing department, and know how to make the most of what they have. I can go to a dyno in the middle of the day in july, get a base line, let the air cool down, or run a big fan, add a new filter, and get a 5-10 hp gain too. Im not saying this is what they do, but who is to say they don't? I know of i company now for a fact that uses this tactic, and most people have caught on to them and dont buy their products anymore, unless they are very under educated, gulible, or have a language barrier ?

I really need to get back to the states and open a shop, then Just for the fun of it stay up late and dyno all sorts of mods to see whats best.

[SixGuns]

...Maybe Nissan doesn't want you running sythetic oil because it costs too much to add the half quart between oil changes, thanks to their crappy design on the valve covers. The quest for hp/tq numbers will usually result in poorer fuel economy than you started with. Like was said before, reducing the resistances to the free rotation of parts is the only way to make the engine and drivetrain perform more efficiently. As far as CAIs, I had one on my Eclipse before and, yeah the added "oomph" was nice, but I got on average 1 mpg less than I started with. I run midgrade, have the K&N drop in with a Flowmaster 40 that dumps in front of the axle with 31" A/T tires with my spare up top and lights..and I get 19 mpg average (311 miles per tank, once the light comes on)...But, then again, I'm driving 60 mph most times..Out in San Diego, I was getting 14 on the interstate, 'cause I was pulling 85 all the time. Alot of it is in how you drive, too..won't help the power aspect, but if mpg is what you're looking for, you can't beat the old rule of thumb - keep it below 2k RPM whenever possible, to include pulling away from a stop. It takes forever to get up to speed and pissed people off, but I forced myself to do it for an entire tank and I got damn near 23 mpg. But it's really annoying to drive that slow.

[Natedogg1701]

id kill to be getting 18mpg, right now im averaging about 11 or 12, but its below freezing everyday and i do alot of short, back and forth trips. in the summer i get about 15to 16mpg,but thats with a good deal of highway time. i was actually thinking of getting a K&N intake, but not the one that comes with the intake tube and the shield that surrounds the filter. they have a product they call their "Apollo" intake, just connects to the factory intake tube and gives you a hose about a foot n a half long to route somewhere. i dont have any info on this product, like if it really works wellor if its at all worth it. ill post a link to the K&N site so anyone can check it out.i want some feedback from my fellow R50 owners/inthusiasts before i get one.

http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.htm

[sicwitit]

that's interesting??

[wildlifekid]

BUY IT !!! Your going to LOVE the Sound it makes... I bought mines used on ebay from a local guy for 100 bucks.. So if you can find a used even better.. Well worth it!!! and the only reason why you would decrease your gas mileage is because you just want to FLOOR IT all the times just to hear that sweet sound it makes...

[KyooX4]

Does it make any difference besides the change in sound?

[Natedogg1701]

ya sound is really the least of my worries, i want increased feul economy, i figured if i let the engine breath a little more and get some cooler air i'd see better mpg. the exhaust system is on my list, kuz i know if the engine can breath better, it also wants to let out its waste a little easier and more efficiently. im gunna go with flowy super 44's, theres a good custom shop in my area, im gunna have em do the whole system from the manifolds back. out of curiosity any company make aftermarket exhaust manifolds for R50s? electeric fans are on the list too, man this list just doesnt seem to get shorter...

[sicwitit]

There arn't any companies that I know of that make ex-mani's, they would have to be a custom ($1500-2500) affair.

yet another reason I need to open a shop...just more practice for me and my Tig..

[Natedogg1701]

if you had a shop in the states that would be great, more tawards my area tho. lol. and i didnt think anyone did it was just a curiosity, but i am really curious about that apollo intake. sicwitit do you have any info on it, and experiance with or know other that have used it? u seem to be very well informed on all different parts and acessories for nissans, so you'de be the best person to ask

[selfguided]

Here is my setup with the Apollo. I had a custom 'RAM CAI' that i made for my SVTfocus, just adapted it to my pathfinder a few weeks ago.





I am going to update it soon using this CAI setup:

[Natedogg1701]

does the apollo intake provide even slightly better mpg, along with a little more get up and go?

[selfguided]

not sure about the MPG, never measured it before i made this setup. i could tell a only a slight difference in acceleration. the stock intake setup on this engine is actually very efficient compared to most other stock setups i have seen.

my setup uses the apollo filter housing, but thats it. i used a 4" dryer exhaust tube for a better gain, the apollo came with a 3" i believe, maybe smaller. i am going to install a full CAI soon, with this attached instead of an open-element filter.

it is a good kit to make custom CAI. I used a FMI end-tank for an intake scoop on the SVT, worked great!
Modified by selfguided at 10:12 PM 1/21/2010

[Natedogg1701]

is the ligit K&N CAI setup better then the apollo? and does it really supposed to provide better mpg and slight power increase?

[Pwnin O'Brien]

is the ligit K&N CAI setup better then the apollo? and does it really supposed to provide better mpg and slight power increase?

I really don't think that the K&N FIPK adds any fuel efficiency to the R50. If it does, it's very minimal and probably less than a 1/2MPG increase. The added power is really only noticeable in the upper power band, so around 5000RPM's. The power increase isn't too noticeable but it will give you a little added power when passing on the highway. The FIPK adds a significant amount of under hood noise, and I mean a lot. I got so used to the amount of sound created by the FIPK in my car that when I heard another Pathfinder running I was amazed at how quiet it was and I thought it was off at first.

[Empty V]

I asked this same question a while back and the consensus was that it looked good under the hood and was loud, but that's about it. I opted to put my money elsewhere.

Billy

[Natedogg1701]

im just woundering if the apollo is worth the 130 buks i can get it on ebay for, i want to do some slight perfromance upgrade. i know if i do intake i should do exhause to get the best results and benefits. but for now the intake is way cheaper than exhaust, so i wanna do it first

[selfguided]

honestly, i would go with a K&N drop-in element and save some grip.

the only reason i made this setup is because i already had everything i needed except for the MAF adapter, which was dirt cheap.

i think you would need an FIPK style CAI tube and an Apollo style filter housing to get the most gains. even that would be minimal.

[Empty V]

FYI here's the thread I started a while back about this same subject Is It Worth It to Install a K&N Filter?

Billy

[Natedogg1701]

what difference does the K&N FIPK black make really? im a little lost as to how their tube workd better than the factory one.