Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Discussion of Infiniti's amazing (and underrated) sport-luxury crossovers, the EX35 and EX37. For 2014, the EX series will be renamed QX50, in line with Ininfiit's new naming conventions.
tooth knockn
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Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:41 am

Hi so I have a 2009 ex35 , now has 141,000 miles
Battery is new, purchased around winter of 2020, red top by Optima
Air filters have less than 5000miles
Oil changed every 4kmiles

For like the last 3-4 months car has been taking longer to start in the mornings.

Went to autozone, battery checked good.

No problem when car starts, drives good.

I’m thinking it’s the starter, but my mechanic says it could be the battery….

Anyone with experience with this situation ?


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VStar650CL
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2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:51 am

Try a new crank sensor. When they start to go south they often produce spotty output at cranking speed when cold, then "wake up" with the higher reluctor-wheel speed once the engine catches and runs. Because they're fine after the engine spins, it usually doesn't cause any DTC's. Cam sensors can cause the same behavior, but it's less frequent and more likely to cause a DTC.

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:00 am

VStar650CL wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:51 am
Try a new crank sensor. When they start to go south they often produce spotty output at cranking speed when cold, then "wake up" with the higher reluctor-wheel speed once the engine catches and runs. Because they're fine after the engine spins, it usually doesn't cause any DTC's. Cam sensors can cause the same behavior, but it's less frequent and more likely to cause a DTC.
You think I could replace it myself?

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:08 am

tooth knockn wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:41 am
Hi so I have a 2009 ex35 , now has 141,000 miles
Battery is new, purchased around winter of 2020, red top by Optima
Air filters have less than 5000miles
Oil changed every 4kmiles

For like the last 3-4 months car has been taking longer to start in the mornings.

Went to autozone, battery checked good.

No problem when car starts, drives good.

I’m thinking it’s the starter, but my mechanic says it could be the battery….

Anyone with experience with this situation ?

I also don’t have any check engine light on… FYI

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VStar650CL
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2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:09 am

Dunno, I'm a Nissan tech and not Infiniti. The Infiniti guys here can probably advise you better than I can about the replacement specifics.

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:25 pm

UPDATE.

Since the starter is Original, at 141k miles, I ordered a Starter from Infiniti, about $300 plus core $75…

I’ll post update.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:18 pm

Unless you're hearing the starter run noticeably slower when cold, I doubt that's the issue. Even if you do, chances are it's the battery causing it. Weak starters almost always misbehave worse when hot. Batteries are the opposite.

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:38 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:18 pm
Unless you're hearing the starter run noticeably slower when cold, I doubt that's the issue. Even if you do, chances are it's the battery causing it. Weak starters almost always misbehave worse when hot. Batteries are the opposite.
The battery is less than a year old. It was tested today with one of those devices from the parts store.. 12.79volts

Last week I also tested the battery at another car parts store, same, battery was good.

Sigh

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:41 pm

Battery is a 720 cranking amp red top by optima, purchases around 12/01/2020

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VStar650CL
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:26 pm

tooth knockn wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:38 pm
The battery is less than a year old. It was tested today with one of those devices from the parts store.. 12.79volts

Last week I also tested the battery at another car parts store, same, battery was good.
Didn't say I thought your battery was bad. Just that cold misbehavior is uncharacteristic for a starter, so I fear you're barking up the wrong tree.

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:33 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:26 pm
tooth knockn wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:38 pm
The battery is less than a year old. It was tested today with one of those devices from the parts store.. 12.79volts

Last week I also tested the battery at another car parts store, same, battery was good.
Didn't say I thought your battery was bad. Just that cold misbehavior is uncharacteristic for a starter, so I fear you're barking up the wrong tree.


This problem can be so many things.

I know you didn’t say anything about the battery, I appreciate your help. Just wanted to give that info to u.

I’m thinking if it were the crankshaft sensor, I would of gotten a code…. But I have none.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:24 pm

No, the active element in any crank sensor is inductive, whether it's a 2-wire VR or a 3-wire Hall. That means the faster the reluctor teeth on the crankshaft spin, the stronger the "induced" voltage. What happens with CKP's is that the induction coil gets weak, so it starts missing teeth at a 200 RPM cranking speed and prevents the ECM from firing the plugs cleanly. But as soon as the ECM catches the right spot and the engine fires, the reluctor goes from 200 RPM to 600 RPM and the signal gets stronger. So it stops missing teeth and the ECM never realizes it has a problem. What you get is exactly the symptoms you're seeing, a long crank but no codes. Once the engine warms up the mechanical tolerances change, so very often the reluctor is a few thousandths of an inch closer or further, making the problem seem temperature-related.

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:34 pm

Freakin interesting.

The crank shaft sensor seems to be like $70 by denso.

I saw earlier that it is located under the car.

So question, why would it happen in the morning or at end of day from work?

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:35 pm

Tomorrow I will take a reading of the battery before I start it up. Just in case.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:43 pm

tooth knockn wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:35 pm
Tomorrow I will take a reading of the battery before I start it up. Just in case.
Sure, check voltage drop while cranking if you can get an assistant to turn the key. Healthy batteries won't go much below 9V while cranking, very healthy ones will usually bottom out around 9.5~10.5V. If you see a drop in that range then it isn't the battery, starter or cables causing your issue.

Dzionassi
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby Dzionassi » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:17 pm

Is it cranking longer than usual in the morning? If so, it could be leaky fuel injector. Fuel rail might be loosing fuel pressure over night.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:29 am

Dzionassi wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:17 pm
Is it cranking longer than usual in the morning? If so, it could be leaky fuel injector. Fuel rail might be loosing fuel pressure over night.
+1. Sniff the tailpipe to check that, with the help of an assistant. If you have a leaker, you'll get a white puff with an acrid, chemical smell right after the car starts.

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:31 pm

Ok te battery this morning before start up was 12.45v….at 6am

Went to work… 7 to 5pm…. And it read 12.51v….

I was able to get a new battery replacement today.

I will follow up by Monday to see if that Helped.


If problem persists I will check the other input provided Fromm all….

Thank you guys

Dzionassi
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby Dzionassi » Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:07 pm

i cant understand why you changed battery, if it was cranking just fine and voltage was ok...

tooth knockn
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:10 pm

Dzionassi wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:07 pm
i cant understand why you changed battery, if it was cranking just fine and voltage was ok...
The battery is about 6 months old… it should be 12.6+ v before a start up ….

Dzionassi
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby Dzionassi » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:23 pm

tooth knockn wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:10 pm
Dzionassi wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:07 pm
i cant understand why you changed battery, if it was cranking just fine and voltage was ok...
The battery is about 6 months old… it should be 12.6+ v before a start up ….
Haha, sorry, but you have some fake information. Who told you that? Car can be even started if voltage drops lower than 12v.
I made this picture specially for you. Parked my car 2 hours ago and i can guarantee you, it will start without the problem tomorrow morning. :chuckle:
Image

I am going to repeat my self, if it is cranking, but not starting right away, it is most likely fuel pressure problem. Especially, if this problem occurs after car was parked for couple hours.
Good luck.

tooth knockn
Posts: 52
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:02 am

Dzionassi wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:23 pm
tooth knockn wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:10 pm


The battery is about 6 months old… it should be 12.6+ v before a start up ….
Haha, sorry, but you have some fake information. Who told you that? Car can be even started if voltage drops lower than 12v.
I made this picture specially for you. Parked my car 2 hours ago and i can guarantee you, it will start without the problem tomorrow morning. :chuckle:
Image

I am going to repeat my self, if it is cranking, but not starting right away, it is most likely fuel pressure problem. Especially, if this problem occurs after car was parked for couple hours.
Good luck.
Not fake info but just what the guy told me at the parts store and I also checked online

https://www.autobatteries.com/en-us/bat ... nd-testing

If it is a fuel pressure problem, what part would it be, how would I test it?

tooth knockn
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Car: 2009 ex35

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:03 am

Dzionassi wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:23 pm
tooth knockn wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:10 pm


The battery is about 6 months old… it should be 12.6+ v before a start up ….
Haha, sorry, but you have some fake information. Who told you that? Car can be even started if voltage drops lower than 12v.
I made this picture specially for you. Parked my car 2 hours ago and i can guarantee you, it will start without the problem tomorrow morning. :chuckle:
Image

I am going to repeat my self, if it is cranking, but not starting right away, it is most likely fuel pressure problem. Especially, if this problem occurs after car was parked for couple hours.
Good luck.
Interesting lay out you got in your car…. What is all the?

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VStar650CL
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2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby VStar650CL » Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:30 am

Float voltage on a healthy battery is 12.4V. You'll generally see 12.8~13.2V right after the car is shut off, and 12.8V is optimal for testing CCA. But that voltage is transient, after a short time it will drop to at or near float voltage, primarily because the BCM is still drawing 10~20 milliamps of residual current. The only way it will retain 12.8V is if you disconnect it from the car.

Dzionassi
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby Dzionassi » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:47 am

tooth knockn wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:03 am
Dzionassi wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:23 pm


Haha, sorry, but you have some fake information. Who told you that? Car can be even started if voltage drops lower than 12v.
I made this picture specially for you. Parked my car 2 hours ago and i can guarantee you, it will start without the problem tomorrow morning. :chuckle:
Image

I am going to repeat my self, if it is cranking, but not starting right away, it is most likely fuel pressure problem. Especially, if this problem occurs after car was parked for couple hours.
Good luck.
Interesting lay out you got in your car…. What is all the?
All kind performance mods

tooth knockn
Posts: 52
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Car: 2009 ex35

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:40 am

Dzionassi wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:47 am
tooth knockn wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:03 am


Interesting lay out you got in your car…. What is all the?
All kind performance mods
Do you like using that metal bar?

tooth knockn
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:39 pm
Car: 2009 ex35

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:41 am

So I think it wasn’t the battery… but I’m still going to change the starter… since I drive a lot between 2 states

Dzionassi
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Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby Dzionassi » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:01 am

tooth knockn wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:41 am
So I think it wasn’t the battery… but I’m still going to change the starter… since I drive a lot between 2 states
You are wasting money. Just stop...
My suggestion at this point is to buy a can off bg 44k Platinum. Run it in full tank.
This is cheapest attempt to fix your issue.

tooth knockn
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:39 pm
Car: 2009 ex35

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby tooth knockn » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:57 am

Dzionassi wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:01 am
tooth knockn wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:41 am
So I think it wasn’t the battery… but I’m still going to change the starter… since I drive a lot between 2 states
You are wasting money. Just stop...
My suggestion at this point is to buy a can off bg 44k Platinum. Run it in full tank.
This is cheapest attempt to fix your issue.
Hmmmmm

How about Marvel Mystery oil?

Dzionassi
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:50 pm
Car: 2017 Infiniti QX50

Re: Is it the Starter , Alternator, battery or fuel related - long Crank to Start Car in Morning

Postby Dzionassi » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:28 pm

BG44K. MMO is for kids, but is it better than seafom


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