Is Infiniti out of their minds?

[myother45isalesbaer]

I have a 2004 M45. I went out to the Infiniti internets web site and priced a Q that was about equal to mine. V8 engine is an expensive option with HP and Torque #'s less than my old M45 engine. Almost everything I have is an option on the Q. Granted there are more bells and whistles on the Q options, but who needs all that stuff. Its hard enough to drive without playing with new stuff or texting etc.

THE PRICE WAS CLOSE TO $100,000 after I got all done pricing it out. Is Infiniti nuts? I can beat the snot out of the new Infiniti, have almost all the same bells and whistles. $100,000? That is insane!!!

[Larz]

I priced a Q70-L 3.7 with every available add-on before looking at the new Jag-L

2015 Infiniti Q70L 3.7 $51,350

EXTERIOR COLOR *
Moonlight White $400

INTERIOR*
Java Leather / White Ash with Silver-Powdered Wood Trim

INCLUDED:
Premium Package (Complimentary)

PACKAGES ADDED*
Deluxe Touring Package $3,900
Technology Package $3.300
Performance Tire and Wheel Package $1,150

ACCESSORIES ADDED*
Rear Deck lid Spoiler $505
Stainless Steel Illuminated Kick Plates $465
Splash Guards (4-piece set) $205
Carpeted Trunk Mat $90

Destination & Handling $905
_____________________________________________________
Build Total*: $62,270
Excludes tax, title, license and options. Retailer sets actual price.

A 39-month lease was $840/month with $10,578 at signing (and with excellent credit)
A 60-month finance is $953/month with $10,000 down payment and no trade-in at 3.5% interest (for excellent credit)

The 5.6 version with all the options is over $75.000 at Florida prices !!!
________________________________________________________

Hence, my 2009 M35 purchase, LOL. I got a $60,000 car (in 2009) with under 25,000 miles AND extended bumper-to-bumper warranty till 150,000 miles for low $20's.
Infiniti prices are high and they depreciate quicker than other luxury models, so a used Infiniti an absolutely GREAT value.
If you buy it new though, not so much.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Larz,

I agree. You missed the v8 option. There is no doubt that a nice clean used one is a better deal, but I have about had it with Infiniti and their pricing schemes. You almost can't tell what the freak you buying anymore. I like the luxury sport sedans but I want my power too. I need to look elsewhere and no BMW's or Mercedes for me. Had a nice BMW 540i that was a horror show. The beemer did have that low end V8 pull when it wasn't getting fixed. I am getting so disgusted with all the new ones I am thinking on a frame off restored old timer like the 4 door Lincoln or Cadillac. I am a 61 year old fart and I am not going to get some wimped out new piece of garbage. Infinit seems to be doing really well at over priced garbage these days. Good luck with your's. They just are not my taste anymore.

[seldomseen]

THE PRICE WAS CLOSE TO $100,000 after I got all done pricing it out. Is Infiniti nuts? I can beat the snot out of the new Infiniti, have almost all the same bells and whistles. $100,000? That is insane!!!

If your pockets aren't deep enough to handle the new car prices....go pre-owned! Much better value for most folks. Also consider the likes of Lexus or Cadillac too.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Seldom,

My pockets are pretty deep. I just don't think Infiniti's are worth that kind of money. For that amount of bucks you can get some pretty outragous frame off restored autos. I am looking for lincoln, t'birds or caddy's in the 1958 to 1965 range. They made cars with personality back then. Even contacted the monkeys on Fast n Loud and they sell frame offs, not just flips.

I must agree used is the best way to get the most bang for the buck. Its hard to find a good 1-2 year old with low mileage. Lexus is looking pretty good to me too. Its more a luxury car without as much sport as the Infiniti. I like the european stiffer ride. A buddy of mine lucked into a great Lexus...but no V8. Very, very nice car. How can you go wrong with Toyota's top model? Its on my list when I get there. Its hard to part with my 2004 M45 when it only has 30K on it and for a big car moves out pretty smartly. Crusing at 100, although highly illegal, is like doing 40mph in most other cars. Bottom line is Infiniti just lost a major supporter. I am going to move on to something else.

[Ilya]

I disagree with your thread, 45. Infiniti has made HUGE strides in trying to compete with the Lexus LS, Audi A8, and BMW 7-Series. HUGE.

Price base (absolute cheapest version of said model that closely resembles power output of Q70) and with every option selected off each manufacturer's site:

Infiniti Q70L AWD: $67,050 | $79,366 (not sure where you got your price from??? - I checked EVERY SINGLE BOX)
Audi A8L: $81,400 | $119,700
Lexus LS460 L AWD: $81,925 | $112,546
BMW 760Li: $141,200 | $160,935

Obviously Infiniti doesn't have tech like 'night vision', etc...but given the difference in price and features left off, I'd say Infiniti is EXTREMELY competitive in price.

I've purchased two M's now that are the same price as their bigger competitors. I could have had an LS, instead I went with a M56x. Etc.

So, to recap, I know not what you speak of.

[myother45isalesbaer]

We must have different boxes. Did you find the V8 option as that changes the boxes. I didn't check AWD. I was looking at the Q90. The mere fact you say "Infiniti has made great strides........" kind of proves my point. Do you mean they were not as good as Lexus and are playing catch up? They used to be better than Lexus. I still think Infiniti execs are asleep at the switch and charge too much for too little. Opps one of the gas monkey's and their trolls are calling. Got to go hear the price on a fully restored 64 T'Bird. Its less than a new Infiniti, has the same luxury, looks better (my OP) and has a V8 larger than anyone makes today. Convertible too. What happened to all the cars today. They all look the same. They must have used the same wind tunnel to get the same design and pushed their tiny 6 bangers to one degree below major engine failure. LOL.

[pegasus]

I bought my 2008 M45 S used for what I think was an absolute steal, but I must agree that even back then asking $50-60K for this level of fit finish and trim is crazy, and even crazier that some folks paid it.

[Ilya]

We must have different boxes. Did you find the V8 option as that changes the boxes. I didn't check AWD. I was looking at the Q90. The mere fact you say "Infiniti has made great strides........" kind of proves my point. Do you mean they were not as good as Lexus and are playing catch up? They used to be better than Lexus. I still think Infiniti execs are asleep at the switch and charge too much for too little. Opps one of the gas monkey's and their trolls are calling. Got to go hear the price on a fully restored 64 T'Bird. Its less than a new Infiniti, has the same luxury, looks better (my OP) and has a V8 larger than anyone makes today. Convertible too. What happened to all the cars today. They all look the same. They must have used the same wind tunnel to get the same design and pushed their tiny 6 bangers to one degree below major engine failure. LOL.

I did not see the V8 option...maybe that all depends on zip codes? Not sure.

Up until recently, Infiniti was more in line with Acura. Not quite Lexus, but definitely not a Nissan/Honda. I think my 07 M is quite nice actually, which is why I upgraded to a 2011 (picking it up tonight). For the price I paid, and compared to 07/08 7-series' and LS's I looked at in 2010 (when I got my 07 M), I decided to go to the M even though the prices were the same.

I think you just don't like new cars in general today based on your last part of the quote above...tech/gadgets aren't for everyone. It's all good. But I don't get your flaming of Infiniti. It is a good car brand with generally very reliable vehicles that is moving up the chain and becoming more synonymous with premium luxury. Prior to the new stuff coming out, I would classify it as just luxury (again, more Acura than Lexus). That's just my opinion.

[Larz]

I feel you, mate when you speak of the old powerful luxury cars from the states. Restoring one is not cheap, but very rewarding and you can drive a car that looks like no other. My other car is a 1968 Cadillac Fleetwood and I made a thread about it here: my-other-car-t587139.html?hilit=fleetwood
I always considered that car to be the perfect example of a huge American luxo-barge and a true icon for that period of automotive history in the states. We brits were doing rally cars, one-offs, and pop star paisely Rolls Royces while you lot took things a bit farther and combined the unlimited quality and luxury of the Rolls with the power and performance of the rally cars - built into the same vehicle. During that time, Americans made cars that ignored economy and no limit observed with regard for over-the-top luxury or horsepower. There would never be another time when car makers had such freedom (for good reason).
My other fav car from this period is the Lincoln Mark III. I love the body style and it has a bonnet that goes on forever. It also had over 500 torques so you know it moved fast. It had no central body pilar so with the windows down, it was wide open from front to rear and had interiors designed by the likes of Givenchy, Cartier, Bill Blass, etc.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpY4l5ZSJuE[/youtube]

[myother45isalesbaer]

Gentleman,

Lets get one thing straight, I am not trashing Infiniti I am expressing an OP about their pricing model. Second I am retired and have assets over $1M and although it varies my assets generate income somewhere between $75-85K per year. So lets not refer to how deep my pockets are or anything related to one or two again.

Watch the video Larz sent, now that is what I am talking about. An extremely nice old Lincoln. You can pick many of these old style gems for much less than a new Infiniti. Depending on your taste, any one of the old ones had personality. They are pieces of history when people appreciated cars and did not treat them as just another appliance like a refrig. When they knew about the mechanical workings of the car. And they enjoyed working on, tweaking, playing around with the car.

Today we are driving high tech look alike autos. Infiniti, Honda, Nissan, Acura, Toyota, Lexus....whats the difference. Not much. A little here, a little gizmo there, cup holder count and a bunch of other really unimportant things. My point being in my OP you get more bang for the buck and fun buying an older restored car than you do with the new ones. Also my OP is Infiniti is over priced for what you get. It really is not in the leaque of Benz, BMW, Audi and a few others although their price is banging at their door. To everyone who has gotten a great deal and love their Infiniti's good for you and enjoy it. Bottom line in my OP is in general Infiniti's are a few steps above Honda, a tad behind Lexus, way above any so called American brand but asking nearly upper end prices. I am of course excluding the real upper ends like Rolls and others in that price range and build quality. Infiniti seems to have a place in the market all its own. Down from Lexus, up from Honda but asking close to German car prices. I love my old 2004 M45. It is a weird duck, a sleeper of major order and cost me $45,000 brand new in 2004. There has been little to no inflation although prices are rising. $90K to replace it...INSANE. By the way you have to do a search on V8's to get the different buttons and pricing.

[Ilya]

I don't know...maybe it's just cause I'm in my 20's, but I'd die in that Lincoln. It's just a brake pedal, gas pedal, wheel, shifter, seats and a radio enclosed in metal. Need more cool tech!

(I'm a techie for a living)

[veery]

The old Lincoln might have "character", but it is nowhere near as safe. And if you do survive a trip to whatever destination, then you are liable to be shot on exit by some confused Mafia hit man.
I don't need tech (67) but like a vehicle which is going to get me there safely which drives like a safe car should.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Ilya,

I get it. I do think age plays a role in taste. At your age the big tech cars were not there yet. I love the tech on the motors. Multi-port fuel injection, variable cam timing, reliable turbos, many speed autos, way better braking and handling. Lest I forget the on board computers running the show. Even the mass air sensor is a trip. Inside the cockpit I like the amenities, but don't need many of them myself.

I am also an old time techie in my working days. Managed big, middle, small financial computer systems. From big mainframes to PC's. Loved the work, sometimes hated the company I worked for at the moment. I can talk most tech talk and definately as it relates to accounting and finance.

Mr. Moderator.....me thinks we have a lot in common, just seperated by about 40 years I would guess.

[Ilya]

It's all good. We can agree to disagree, even if its just due to taste lol.

[EniGmA1987]

The Q70 model replaces the M's, and a Q70 with 5.6l V8 has a ton more power than the old VK45's did. So I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from in that regard or the price. A top of the line all options V8 Q AWD sedan costs around $76k, not $100k. And that includes every accessories option too, not just all the packages.

[reggiebrown40]

I was going to post a rebuttal but changed my mind. The original poster's information is way off base. I own an M56x and you saying you could be the snot out of it made me laugh.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Dang.....you are right about the #'s and price. I had looked at a lot of cars that day. I must have got myself all confused. That or I am going senile at 61, and I was a freaking systems accountant big deal. I should know better. I better see the doctor soon and take some senile tests, now what did I do with his number? LOL at myself. I stated I do love my Infiniti, I think. So there, I got one right!

As to the Lincoln in NJ it was a doctor's car. In NYC is was a mob car. It wasn't my taste in looks, it was the condition and what you got for the money, if you could wheel and deal and get a good price. I don't know what the guy wanted for it. Probably too much. Maybe I should lay off the show Fast n Loud and the Gas Monkey's. Perhaps tomorrow.....all new show tonight. After I get my car fix I'll call the doctor and schedule the tests. Still can't find his number. Oh well, the week just started. I have time if I don't forget.

[Tom&Toy]

I have been leaning more and more to ......get ready for it .....HYUNDAI! I really like the Genesis Rspec. Beautiful car

[coolchuck]

The M/Q70 is a great value in the used car market. But new? Id never get oneat those prices. Hey OP, have you thought about Cts-v or300SRT? Crazy power, tech and size, at least with the 300.

[myother45isalesbaer]

I've been thinking about alot of cars. BUT, I just priced out a Q70L with 416hp for about $86K.

I must say holds the horses, all 416 of them. I have to take a look at that bad boy. Better yet get a test drive and see how big those horses are. If they are big like German horses and not tiny Japanese ones I may have to take them home. I can feed another 76 horses and the bigger the better is my motto. I will just have to ignore the techno stuff that I really don't care for.

Anyone looking for a 2004 M45 with 30K miles in like new condition?

[Ilya]

I'm in love with my 420HP M56x...thing is BANANAS. Don't regret the upgrade one bit. And the tech (for me lol) is SWEET.

[Six_Legs]

Ilya, pics with wheel swap please. Thanks.

[Ilya]

Ilya, pics with wheel swap please. Thanks.

Pictures:

[myother45isalesbaer]

Awesome looking. Do you have 6 feet of snow yet? I have silver but always liked the white. Like the black too, until you get it all cleaned up and 1 hour later it looks dirty again. Its cold where I am but no snow.

[Ilya]

Awesome looking. Do you have 6 feet of snow yet? I have silver but always liked the white. Like the black too, until you get it all cleaned up and 1 hour later it looks dirty again. Its cold where I am but no snow.

Nah we don't. Yet. lol.

I had black last time, too much work.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Black is beautiful.........but it is too much work. Owned one black one. Gen 1 SHO. Would spend almost an entire weekend day detailing it out. Next day it looked like kinda at least a week of dirt on it. Loved that Yamaha motor on the 5 speed. Awesome little sleeper but not in the M or Q's class by a long shot.

Hope you have your snowblower or whatever all tuned up and ready to go.

[Six_Legs]

Very nice Ilya! Thanks.

I've owned 1 black car, a 1995 Ford Thunderbird SC. It was my first new car and I loved it but swore I would never own another black veh ever again!
They are pretty but soo much work!! Lol

[Larz]

I've been thinking about alot of cars. BUT, I just priced out a Q70L with 416hp for about $86K.

I must say holds the horses, all 416 of them. I have to take a look at that bad boy. Better yet get a test drive and see how big those horses are. If they are big like German horses and not tiny Japanese ones I may have to take them home. I can feed another 76 horses and the bigger the better is my motto. I will just have to ignore the techno stuff that I really don't care for.

Anyone looking for a 2004 M45 with 30K miles in like new condition?

If you're set on purchasing a new Q70L, consider this. The 2016 model will supposedly be the re-designed body which is different the 2015 model that has the M56 body + new front and rear ends. I haven't been able to find a sneak peek or even confirm that this is true (my service guy at Infiniti told me this info). Perhaps you will have better luck verifying this. Even if you wait for the 2016 model and find it's the same as the 2015, the worst outcome is that you can buy a used 2015 Q70L with the big loss in depreciation already paid by the first owner.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Larz,

I like the way you think. Thanks for the info. I like the idea of waiting for 2016 and picking up a nice clean 2015. If I got real lucky maybe I could find a new 2015 on the dealers lot that I can deal on the price. I am going to take your advice and wait. My 2004 M is like new. I know I am going to have to deal on the trade. The condition mine is in they can throw that NADA top price out the window. I want at least $5K more than NADA states its worth.

I love to deal on cars. I gave up my idea on an old 50-60's frame off restored one. Just not enough techno and amenities I do want. It was a thought I have now dismissed. I am going as you have suggested. Maybe I will get a steal, if not I will just walk. I can't imagine in this economy my local dealer would not want to deal on what I want. Can't be too many people looking at the level of Infiniti I am.

We will see what happens.