Hi, I just bought my 240 coupe, yeah, its a 4 lug! Is it worthwhile to convert it to a 5 lug?I am thinking of doing that and going with the stock alloys or just purchasing axis seven rims that are four lug for around 1 grand. Will I save any money going to the five lug conversion? Just wondering, cause I don't know where to find any 5 lug hubs, and I was quoted like $500 for a pair of se ones in L.A. TOo.
David
is a 4 lug to 5 reasonable?
asad wrote:I disagree. It's only worth going 5-lug for the expanded wheel selection. Brake rotors can easily be redrilled for 4-lug wheels.
Asad
I agree and disagree.
You are right, there are more wheel choices for 5-lugs...but redrilling rotors is ghey.
Maybe we should just redrill 5 lug wheels too.:thinker
linkage for you hoes. conveting from 4-5 lugs isnt as cheap as you think, and will run quite a bit of money, and also narrow your suspensions choices.
also, redrilling the front rotors of a Z32 to fit the 4-lug does NOT pose any problems with the rotors/integrity of the braking system.
there are plenty of good 4-lug wheels out there, in a 4-114.3 set, just not many CHEAP ones. so if you want cheapo rims, your gonna have trouble...but if your considering doing the five lug conversion, you shouldnt evne be thinking about "cost-effeciveness".
as per big brake upgrades, a Z23 front brake conversion is more than adequate for racing purposes, and will greatly change how the brakes fare on the track. if your not racing it, a good set of cross drilled stock diameter rotors, pad and stainless lines will do more than fine for "agressive" street use.
oh yes, linkage:http://www.sportcompactcarweb....lvia/
-chet
also, redrilling the front rotors of a Z32 to fit the 4-lug does NOT pose any problems with the rotors/integrity of the braking system.
there are plenty of good 4-lug wheels out there, in a 4-114.3 set, just not many CHEAP ones. so if you want cheapo rims, your gonna have trouble...but if your considering doing the five lug conversion, you shouldnt evne be thinking about "cost-effeciveness".
as per big brake upgrades, a Z23 front brake conversion is more than adequate for racing purposes, and will greatly change how the brakes fare on the track. if your not racing it, a good set of cross drilled stock diameter rotors, pad and stainless lines will do more than fine for "agressive" street use.
oh yes, linkage:http://www.sportcompactcarweb....lvia/
-chet
Would you care to elaborate as to WHY?Dori Dori wrote:redrilling rotors is ghey.
Quote »Maybe we should just redrill 5 lug wheels too.:thinker
[/quote] You can do that too, but it's a lot harder because you have to machine the proper seating surface for the lug nuts. Ever seen a dual-drilled 4x114.3/5x114.3 wheel?
And before you reply, think about this question: How do you think the rotors (and wheels, for that matter!) get their holes in the first place? hint: They're not cast like that...
Asad
Asad - well before you go back I was wondering about tires.
How hard is it to take off and put on tires with a regular jack if the tire's not flat?
The reason why I ask is I want stagered wheels but I want to be able to rotate the front tires with the back. Bozz speed had stagered wheels and the same size tire and it helped handling because the rear was more rounded and it broke away more progressively.... or something to that effect. I was thinking maybe it would work the same with the 240sx. Can you help me?
If not I'll post a thread here or at freshalloy, just thought I'd hit up one of the most knowledgabe users first.
How hard is it to take off and put on tires with a regular jack if the tire's not flat?
The reason why I ask is I want stagered wheels but I want to be able to rotate the front tires with the back. Bozz speed had stagered wheels and the same size tire and it helped handling because the rear was more rounded and it broke away more progressively.... or something to that effect. I was thinking maybe it would work the same with the 240sx. Can you help me?
If not I'll post a thread here or at freshalloy, just thought I'd hit up one of the most knowledgabe users first.
You mean to remove the tires from the wheel and remount them on another?Snarlynx wrote:How hard is it to take off and put on tires with a regular jack if the tire's not flat?
If that's the case...it can be quite difficult with low profile, stiff-sidewall tires.
And remember, every time you put tires on a wheel, you gotta get 'em rebalanced too.
Quote »The reason why I ask is I want stagered wheels but I want to be able to rotate the front tires with the back. Bozz speed had stagered wheels and the same size tire and it helped handling because the rear was more rounded and it broke away more progressively.... or something to that effect. I was thinking maybe it would work the same with the 240sx. Can you help me?[/quote]Well, remember the Bozz Speed EVO is AWD, meaning that it's harder to get the car to rotate in the first place -- which is generally not a problem with a RWD car! I believe the concept to be equally valid on both AWD and RWD (and FWD!) cars, but my opinion is that it's probably not as necessary on a RWD car.
Asad
Gotcha. Man and I really thought I was on to something.... 
Maybe I'll toy with the idea some more because I read at FA that 1/2 inch staggereing is probably better than a full inch staggering but I like the look of full inch staggering. So wider tires in the front may cut down on the descrepincy. I don't know, If I come up with anything I'll probably bounce it off you first.
Thanks again.
Maybe I'll toy with the idea some more because I read at FA that 1/2 inch staggereing is probably better than a full inch staggering but I like the look of full inch staggering. So wider tires in the front may cut down on the descrepincy. I don't know, If I come up with anything I'll probably bounce it off you first.
Thanks again.
-
bruinbear714
- Posts: 1159
- Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 9:58 pm
- Contact:
bruinbear714 wrote:hey Asad, you the same guy on the freshalloy forums?
that was already answered on the first page:
quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Snarlynx
P.S. Asad - You're not the Mod from freshalloy are you? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I am...I'm slumming on NICO because the Freshalloy forums changed servers and the DNS bindings haven't changed yet...
Asad
asad wrote:Would you care to elaborate as to WHY?
You can do that too, but it's a lot harder because you have to machine the proper seating surface for the lug nuts. Ever seen a dual-drilled 4x114.3/5x114.3 wheel?
And before you reply, think about this question: How do you think the rotors (and wheels, for that matter!) get their holes in the first place? hint: They're not cast like that...
Asad
The more holes the stronger, right.:rolleyes Or is that for speed...
And you are wrong about the rotors. Not all rotors are drilled. Do you really think that they drill rotors made for track/race cars? Hint: they don't.:thinker
So, how many redrilled rotors have you seen fail due to the extra holes?Dori Dori wrote:The more holes the stronger, right.:rolleyes Or is that for speed...
Of course it's not stronger. But it's negligibly weaker.
Quote »And you are wrong about the rotors. Not all rotors are drilled. Do you really think that they drill rotors made for track/race cars? [/quote]
Yes. Show me an example of a hat cast with holes in it. Do you think they cast the threads in the rotor-to-hat mounting holes too? You do realize that the production tolerances on castings are not tight enough to just use them as is -- any casting used for brakes has to be finish machined for mating surfaces, rotor-to-hat bolt holes, etc.
Anyway, show me a clear example of a hat with the holes cast in place and I'll admit I'm wrong on this point. Until then...
Asad
asad wrote:So, how many redrilled rotors have you seen fail due to the extra holes?
Of course it's not stronger. But it's negligibly weaker.
I haven't seen any fail...but then again, I don't know of anyone that races with redrilled rotors. If you're just talking about street cars, then I'm sure they're fine.BTW, how do you know they are only 'negligibly weaker'. Show me proof of that. Until then...
asad wrote:Anyway, show me a clear example of a hat with the holes cast in place and I'll admit I'm wrong on this point. Until then...
Sure. I will try to find them. I came accross them accidently when looking for brake upgrades for my WRX. It was a rally application from overseas...maybe DBA. I will look for them but if I don't find anything, don't assume you are right. The internet is big.
That's it...I got it. Since they are CNC-Machined aluminum, the drilling does not have the same detremental effect as the drilling done to cast iron...the loss of strength that is. Also, in some cases its done with laser and some hats are even forged.
I was slightly confused, but because the redrilled rotors people are using are cast iron, it doesn't really matter anyway. I still stand in my position that I would not redrill rotors and i think doing so is dumb.
I was slightly confused, but because the redrilled rotors people are using are cast iron, it doesn't really matter anyway. I still stand in my position that I would not redrill rotors and i think doing so is dumb.
"Since they are CNC-Machined aluminum, the drilling does not have the same detremental effect as the drilling done to cast iron...the loss of strength that is"
how would drilling on a peice of alluminum be structurally any different from drilling into a peice of cat iron?
the only time I can see the structural signifigance problems are when:1. its a forged rotor, as grain structure is important for strength(never seen a forged rotor yet..)2. when any holes drilled would shange the stress points into an area or go against the "vanes" in a vented rotor..3. the ammount of surface area taken OUT of the object would be signifigant, in both it sheer valume and placement.
so heres the thing, a cast peices grain structure is important(but hard to controll as far as allignment), but thers no signifigant change in a cast iron and cast alluminums grain allignment, so drilling (which is always, always, always done for prodcution on a computer controlled machine) wouldnt make a difference either way.
also, CNC machining is done the same on alluminum or iron, you put in settings, insert the drill bit, and watch the computer drill the holes. CNC=computer numeric controll.
as far as taking too much material out of a rotor, the cross drilled and slotted rotors seen every day take moer overall material out of the most abused portion of a rotor, and they work fine on race tracks everywhere. the mounting points for the lugs are not uder as much stress and the surface of the rotor, nor do those holes support the weight of the car(the studs do).
this is just stuff I leanred when i was doing my 3 semesters as an mechanical engineer....
how would drilling on a peice of alluminum be structurally any different from drilling into a peice of cat iron?
the only time I can see the structural signifigance problems are when:1. its a forged rotor, as grain structure is important for strength(never seen a forged rotor yet..)2. when any holes drilled would shange the stress points into an area or go against the "vanes" in a vented rotor..3. the ammount of surface area taken OUT of the object would be signifigant, in both it sheer valume and placement.
so heres the thing, a cast peices grain structure is important(but hard to controll as far as allignment), but thers no signifigant change in a cast iron and cast alluminums grain allignment, so drilling (which is always, always, always done for prodcution on a computer controlled machine) wouldnt make a difference either way.
also, CNC machining is done the same on alluminum or iron, you put in settings, insert the drill bit, and watch the computer drill the holes. CNC=computer numeric controll.
as far as taking too much material out of a rotor, the cross drilled and slotted rotors seen every day take moer overall material out of the most abused portion of a rotor, and they work fine on race tracks everywhere. the mounting points for the lugs are not uder as much stress and the surface of the rotor, nor do those holes support the weight of the car(the studs do).
this is just stuff I leanred when i was doing my 3 semesters as an mechanical engineer....
[quote=" Dori Dori I haven't seen any fail...but then again, I don't know of anyone that races with redrilled rotors. [/quote]I know plenty of people with redrilled rotors that track their cars regularly.
Quote »BTW, how do you know they are only 'negligibly weaker'. Show me proof of that. Until then... [/quote]I'm not an engineer, just a physicist, but common sense tells me that they'll be negligibly weaker. The amount of material removed is a small fraction of the total material on the face of the rotor. In addition, the lug holes in the rotor are under very little stress -- the force holding the rotors comes from the force of the lug nuts squeezing the rotor hat between the hub and back pad of the wheel.
In my ~5 years on various 240sx mailing lists and forums, I have yet to hear of anyone who has had a Z brake rotor failure period, let alone one that could clearly be attributed to using redrilled rotors. While it's not proof, it should give some indication of how much of a non-issue it is. Quote »That's it...I got it. Since they are CNC-Machined aluminum, the drilling does not have the same detremental effect as the drilling done to cast iron...the loss of strength that is. [/quote]This is a completely moot point since cast iron is so much stronger than 7075 aluminum (the grade usually used for rotor hats, and the strongest grade in common use) -- the yield strength of cast iron is 3-4x that of 7075 Al (depending on the particular grade of iron).
Quote »I will look for them but if I don't find anything, don't assume you are right. The internet is big. [/quote]
Unless proven wrong, I always assume I'm right -- my ego would be in shambles otherwise
Asad
Quote »BTW, how do you know they are only 'negligibly weaker'. Show me proof of that. Until then... [/quote]I'm not an engineer, just a physicist, but common sense tells me that they'll be negligibly weaker. The amount of material removed is a small fraction of the total material on the face of the rotor. In addition, the lug holes in the rotor are under very little stress -- the force holding the rotors comes from the force of the lug nuts squeezing the rotor hat between the hub and back pad of the wheel.
In my ~5 years on various 240sx mailing lists and forums, I have yet to hear of anyone who has had a Z brake rotor failure period, let alone one that could clearly be attributed to using redrilled rotors. While it's not proof, it should give some indication of how much of a non-issue it is. Quote »That's it...I got it. Since they are CNC-Machined aluminum, the drilling does not have the same detremental effect as the drilling done to cast iron...the loss of strength that is. [/quote]This is a completely moot point since cast iron is so much stronger than 7075 aluminum (the grade usually used for rotor hats, and the strongest grade in common use) -- the yield strength of cast iron is 3-4x that of 7075 Al (depending on the particular grade of iron).
Quote »I will look for them but if I don't find anything, don't assume you are right. The internet is big.
[/quote] Unless proven wrong, I always assume I'm right -- my ego would be in shambles otherwise
Asad
Find Your Forum!