Introduce Myself (RB20)

[Cpt_Impossible]

Hello All:

I've been a prowler for too long, I guess it's time to post up my car. I just had my RB20 swap done a few weeks back by Tino at Custom Imports (Tumwater, Washington). He did a good job for a great price and it only took a few days, everything on schedule.

Car is a 1990 Nissan 240sx Coupe Dark Grey Metallic.



-RB20DET -M's Filter (came w/ clip)-Apexi N1 Catback-HKS BOV (came w/ clip)-Optima Yellow Top-12" Pusher Fan-12" Puller Fan-Rigid Racing Cooling Panel-Blitz DTT Timer and Boost Gauge-Nismo Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator-Walbro 255lph hp Fuel Pump-Corbeau TRS Reclining Seat-Corbeau 3pt Quick Release Harness w/ Pads-Infinity Speakers-Sony Xplod Head Unit-Good Alarm (lol)-Konig Imagine 17x7 +40's-Yokohama Parada Spec 2 215's-KYB AGX Shocks-H&R Sport Springs-Megan Rear Strut Tower Bar

Probably a bit more I can't think of... Ignore the mess of wiring on the battery, I needed to put my fans in in a hurryand all of the local auto stores were being total dumbasses and were incapable of finding me a thermostatic switch kit.

[Joe]

Welcome to NICO!

Just a little FYI, it appears your harness is mounted to the floor or the rear lower seat belt bolts. thats unsafe. if you get in an accident the harness will actually pull down and compress your spine. bad.

to mount a harness 100% safley you need a rollbar.

[Cpt_Impossible]

Ya I've had this discussion a ton of times with various people, I will eventually get a roll bar with a harness bar on it but until then Im comfortable with how the seat routes the harness. Mounting it higher wont make a difference in how the belt pulls unless it is mounted above a 90 degree angle. The seat guides sit above my shoulders anyway, but yes, a roll bar is on my shopping list.

[Joe]

i dont want to beat a dead horse but i sell racing safety equipment for a living for one of the largest online retailers in the world.

dont put youre life in your own hands when you think you feel "comfortable" in how the belt routes. its not worth your LIFE or your MOBILITY just to look cool with a harness.

[Cpt_Impossible]

[/sarcasm]

I didn't buy a harness to look cool, I bought one because the stock belts are not safe with the seat. I bought the seat because the stockers do not hold you in at all and mine was stuck leaned 60% back and to the right. I dont like to ride gangsta so I tried to replace it but my car came with the rarer plushy interior rather than the tweed type. I couldnt find one in the area and all the junkyards wanted at least 100 for them so I decided to upgrade. Like I said I do plan on getting the bar but I can do so without sarcasm.

I don't even see a horse to beat. Yes a harness bar with a roll hoop is optimal, but I don't see how it is possible for the belts to press down on my spine when they are routed above my shoulders. I have been in two lightweight accidents with no back problems not saying thats scientific evidence, but how is the belt going to pull down on my shoulders when it cant go any lower than the holes? Unless the seatback collapses, and in that case chances are I am going to die anyway, but I really dont feel like discussing this anymore as I know your side, I know many sides and I plan on getting a harness bar with my roll hoop.


Modified by Cpt_Impossible at 6:22 PM 7/19/2006

[Flamereka]

Its hard to explain how they push down on your spine. They actually push down on your shoulders which then pushes down on youe spine. Heres and easy example. Think of a triangle block and take a piece of string and lay out over the point of the triangle and down both sides. Staple both ends of string to surface triangle is on and then pull on triangle. The point of the triangle is your should and would be pressed down as such compressing your spine. with your current setup you are placing all the pressure on your shoulders and no pressure on your chest like seatbelt are supposed to do.

[Joe]

Its hard to explain how they push down on your spine. They actually push down on your shoulders which then pushes down on youe spine. Heres and easy example. Think of a triangle block and take a piece of string and lay out over the point of the triangle and down both sides. Staple both ends of string to surface triangle is on and then pull on triangle. The point of the triangle is your should and would be pressed down as such compressing your spine. with your current setup you are placing all the pressure on your shoulders and no pressure on your chest like seatbelt are supposed to do.

and to suppliment that

http://www.sparcousa.com/resourceFiles/16.pdfpage 3.

[Cpt_Impossible]

No, the pressure is still angled just as it would be if I had the harness bar. The only risk seems to be if the seat collapses. The harness guides route the harness to the correct angle anyway. From my research, having a harness bar deffinitely helps out in several ways:

-If the seatback collapses, you still have the correct angle.

-It shortens the length of the straps making them hold under a higher pressure.

[Cpt_Impossible]

Yes I have read sparcos information before...

What they fail to point out is that if you are using a high seatback with harness guides in the frame the harness is still in the acceptable angle. What they show as unacceptable would be comprable to mounting it on the rear seat and having a lowback seat. If you look at the picture, they show the apex of the corner as his shoulder which is not true in a high back seat with the guides. The guides sit just above my shoulders.

[Yellow4g63]

Did you get these? http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclsafety.htm I had those in my S13 the Schroth Rally 4's.

[Cpt_Impossible]

So Kamin, what distributor do you work for anyway? They give you any discounts?

[Yellow4g63]

Ohh yeah nice looking swap too. Get some slim fans and trim the radiator support forward so you can tilt the radiator forward a little so you can mount some FAL thin fan puller in the engine bay.

[Cpt_Impossible]

Thats about what my install instructions looked like. I went with option "D". The harness itself is a 3pt black quick release Corbeau. If I had done it over again I would have just gotten the 4 point and not payed extra for the retractible or quick release option. I always cinch them up all the way and I never use the quick release button behind the seat where the Y is. I cant reach it from the driver's seat and theres really no point to it.

[Joe]

if you upgrade go 5 point.

anti submarine belts can save youre insides in an accident. again, these are NOT street car modifications. i dont understand why people do this. safety isnt something to do for looks *cough* takata harness *cough*(not specifically talking about you, just pointing that out)

and i work for http://www.upr.com yes i get a good discount.

[I_make_ah_dah_sense]

I am confused.

According to the PDF that you sent Captains seat is well within specs to not damage his spine in an accident due to the holes in the seat being above his shoulders. Meaning that it is withing the 5 to 30 degrees that are optimal for this type of belt system. So where is the problem with how he has it setup (besides the 2 issues that he already listed)?

Also, how is this not a Street mod? His new seat out preforms his stock one as does his belt. Both are safer than their original parts and will improve his driving experience with no adverse side affects (besides the 2 that he already listed of course, both of which are manageable and negligeable - in my eyes). Both are completely street legal and using one will actually keep him from getting a ticket. That sounds like the definition of what a street mod should be.

What did I miss here? I mean, I wouldn't think that a mod would jump on a new users "hello world" thread and start ranking on him for doing everything right, but that is just me...

[Flamereka]

I didn't see him raggin on you at all. He's just looking out for your best interests as a MOD should. If you don't care about walking upright keep the harness in its current state. Its also kinda lame that you made a fake account to back up yourself especially since its the first post of the account.

[Joe]

I am confused.

According to the PDF that you sent Captains seat is well within specs to not damage his spine in an accident due to the holes in the seat being above his shoulders. Meaning that it is withing the 5 to 30 degrees that are optimal for this type of belt system. So where is the problem with how he has it setup (besides the 2 issues that he already listed)?

Also, how is this not a Street mod? His new seat out preforms his stock one as does his belt. Both are safer than their original parts and will improve his driving experience with no adverse side affects (besides the 2 that he already listed of course, both of which are manageable and negligeable - in my eyes). Both are completely street legal and using one will actually keep him from getting a ticket. That sounds like the definition of what a street mod should be.

What did I miss here? I mean, I wouldn't think that a mod would jump on a new users "hello world" thread and start ranking on him for doing everything right, but that is just me...

the belt mounting is still not perpendicular to the seat meaning the belt will not react as planned in the event of an accident. granted chances are slim but again, is the ability to walk worth that chance?

and bullSH*T a harness is a street modification. even IF the harness was mounted perpendicular to the seat/shoulders it still presents a serious problem in the event of a rollover. granted, most people are seriously injured in rollovers BUT the stock seatbelt in the triangle configuration allows the body to move down and in away from the windows and away from the collapsing roof. a harness does NOT allow that to happen because it holds you upright so if the roof comes down, you die.

the odds of being injured are nearly nil in both situations BUT they are still much more of an issue than the stock belt in the event of an accident. just because his belt and seat are "street legal" dosent mean they are safer than the stock counterparts. and just because its a "sport" seat dosent mean its any safer than a stock seat.

im not trying to be an *** or make fun of him or make him feel stupid, but i feel i have to give my input from years of experience with safety.

[Cpt_Impossible]

Not my account, but I know who it was, and no I didnt even ask them to post anything...

So the moral of the story is, this whole argument seems to be somewhat negligible and off topic.

Hi, this is my ride... Lets start there...

[Joe]

Hi, this is my ride... Lets start there...

looks great

get rid of that RB20 and youll be all set

(haha i know, the guy in charge is a d!ck. live with it )

welcome to NICO again. thanks for being a good sport.

[AmoebAssassin]

Listen to Kamin, he's giving you great information. I design, build, and drive FSAE cars for my college, and if we routed seatbelts like you have yours routed, we'd probably get kicked out of competition, not to mention seriously injured in a worse case accident, god forbid.