Internet Sales Tax

[stebo0728]

Ok i didnt want to hijack IB's net neutrality thread, but it prompted thought regarding internet sales tax, so I decided so strike up some friendly debate about the issue.

Internet sales tax, yah or nah?

Note: This issue runs parallel with direct mail, catalog ordering sales tax.

[heliochrome85]

Ok i didnt want to hijack IB's net neutrality thread, but it prompted thought regarding internet sales tax, so I decided so strike up some friendly debate about the issue.

Internet sales tax, yah or nah?

Note: This issue runs parallel with direct mail, catalog ordering sales tax.

more than a few states have already started to charge sales tax on internet purchases. it stands to reason that they should. i dont really see why internet sales are exempted from taxation. taht being said, i bought our family LED tv from Amazon, because 7% adds up quickly .

[stebo0728]

Ok i didnt want to hijack IB's net neutrality thread, but it prompted thought regarding internet sales tax, so I decided so strike up some friendly debate about the issue.

Internet sales tax, yah or nah?

Note: This issue runs parallel with direct mail, catalog ordering sales tax.

more than a few states have already started to charge sales tax on internet purchases. it stands to reason that they should. i dont really see why internet sales are exempted from taxation. taht being said, i bought our family LED tv from Amazon, because 7% adds up quickly .

I agree, and you made the point with your TV, the lack of sales tax on internet and catalog purchases moves business out of the local sector. You buy stuff where you dont pay tax for obvious reasons, and thats what you should do, if the advantage exists. The advantage should not exist. But this brings complications. Some states dont even have a sales tax, so should citizens of that state pay sales tax for internet purchases when they dont pay them locally? Sales tax rates vary dramatically county to county, so what rate should someone pay? Traditionally a person pays sales tax only when the business they are purchasing from has a "brick and mortar" establishment in said state (its debated as to whether traveling salesmen constitute brick and mortar establishments).

[heliochrome85]

well it would stand to reason that any order being shipped to said state would be subject to that states sales tax, as you pointed out with the Brick and Mortar reference. That being said, who claims the sale? Say if i order from amazon, where is amazon located? Obviously they are the ones profiting off the sale, but unless they are based in indiana, they would be subject to their state's sales tax. down the line, you will have companies shopping amongst states for the lowest sales tax burden. its a tricky issue thats above my pay grade, but it would stand to reason that 1.) the Right would be against it since it would probably depress sales and hurt businesses, and 2.) would raise taxes on every day americans. im not necessarily criticising, just kinda sketching out potential opposition.

[stebo0728]

well it would stand to reason that any order being shipped to said state would be subject to that states sales tax, as you pointed out with the Brick and Mortar reference. That being said, who claims the sale? Say if i order from amazon, where is amazon located? Obviously they are the ones profiting off the sale, but unless they are based in indiana, they would be subject to their state's sales tax. down the line, you will have companies shopping amongst states for the lowest sales tax burden. its a tricky issue thats above my pay grade, but it would stand to reason that 1.) the Right would be against it since it would probably depress sales and hurt businesses, and 2.) would raise taxes on every day americans. im not necessarily criticising, just kinda sketching out potential opposition.

Actually, and I may be wrong, but it seems most of the time, tax rate is determined not by where the sales originates but by where is terminates. In other words, if I live in GA, but I but an item from a company that is in UT, unless said company also has a presence in my state, I pay no tax. If it does have a presence in my state, then I pay the sales tax rate for the county I live in.

[heliochrome85]

you maybe right. its safe to say that i dont understand the tax law. your explanation makes sense though.

[themadscientist]

Just tax p0rn. Deficit gone in a few months and that's just if you tax anyone over the age of 20 still living at home.

[IBCoupe]

People still pay for p0rn?

Anyways... As someone who grew up five minutes from the New Hampshire border, I can vouch for the traveling-to-shop-where-there's-no-sales-tax thing.

[AZhitman]

That being said, who claims the sale? Say if i order from amazon, where is amazon located? Obviously they are the ones profiting off the sale, but unless they are based in indiana, they would be subject to their state's sales tax. down the line, you will have companies shopping amongst states for the lowest sales tax burden. its a tricky issue thats above my pay grade, but it would stand to reason that 1.) the Right would be against it since it would probably depress sales and hurt businesses, and 2.) would raise taxes on every day americans. im not necessarily criticising, just kinda sketching out potential opposition.

Actually, Amazon serves only (in most cases) as a go-between, to connect sellers and buyers. They get their cut, certainly, but usually there's a separate entity in there actually shipping your purchase. Ordered our big screen TV through Amazon as well, but I think it wound up coming from Tiger Direct. So, there's some complexity there.

I oppose taxation of 'net purchases UNLESS we alter the tax code considerably, abolishing income tax and levying taxes on purchases only (which is another subject for another thread).

[stebo0728]

I oppose taxation of 'net purchases UNLESS we alter the tax code considerably, abolishing income tax and levying taxes on purchases only (which is another subject for another thread).

Fair-what?

National Retail Sales-what?

Amen, consumption based tax is the only way to go if a capitalist society is what you claim to be.

[wingFeather]

This would kill a ton of small businesses, and hurt larger ones, too. We do not need such legislation, especially at this time.

[stebo0728]

This would kill a ton of small businesses, and hurt larger ones, too. We do not need such legislation, especially at this time.

Are you speaking to the OP regarding internet sales tax? Or to the all consumption based notion that was just mentioned?

[wingFeather]

Are you speaking to the OP regarding internet sales tax? Or to the all consumption based notion that was just mentioned?

It was intended for the OP, but also applies to the more recent statement. We should be encouraging commerce, not penalizing it.

[heliochrome85]

its a tricky issue thats above my pay grade, but it would stand to reason that 1.) the Right would be against it since it would probably depress sales and hurt businesses, and 2.) would raise taxes on every day americans. im not necessarily criticising, just kinda sketching out potential opposition.

[wingFeather]

its a tricky issue thats above my pay grade, but it would stand to reason that 1.) the Right would be against it since it would probably depress sales and hurt businesses, and 2.) would raise taxes on every day americans. im not necessarily criticising, just kinda sketching out potential opposition.

What is wrong with defending every day Americans, and those who they get their paychecks from? Are you suggesting that America is a sinful place & we should go back to the dark ages - where us "every day" people would be slaves, and not receive pay from our oppressors? I hope not.

[heliochrome85]

its a tricky issue thats above my pay grade, but it would stand to reason that 1.) the Right would be against it since it would probably depress sales and hurt businesses, and 2.) would raise taxes on every day americans. im not necessarily criticising, just kinda sketching out potential opposition.

What is wrong with defending every day Americans, and those who they get their paychecks from? Are you suggesting that America is a sinful place & we should go back to the dark ages - where us "every day" people would be slaves, and not receive pay from our oppressors? I hope not.

no, im just saying that the basis of your opposition is expected. feigned outrage much?

[wingFeather]

no, im just saying that the basis of your opposition is expected.

Of course it is - why would I support something I am against? I will never support socialism, immorality or any of the things "your side" loves.

[heliochrome85]

no, im just saying that the basis of your opposition is expected.

Of course it is - why would I support something I am against? I will never support socialism, immorality or any of the things "your side" loves.

what side is that?

[stebo0728]

Are you speaking to the OP regarding internet sales tax? Or to the all consumption based notion that was just mentioned?

It was intended for the OP, but also applies to the more recent statement. We should be encouraging commerce, not penalizing it.

I seem to be having trouble judging which side of the economic fence you are on here. Internet sales tax is a complicated issue, but it seeks to LEVEL the playing field, to right some inbalances that already exist for LOCAL businesses.

As far as Fair Tax, or the National Retail Sales tax, it will in no way depress businesses or penalize them. Quite the contrary, much of the overhead it takes to start a business with regards to the horrible taxation compliance costs, those completely vanish, most business already collect state sales tax, so the system is already in place to collect the national sales tax, furthermore businesses will no longer have to chunk an extra 7.5% of their employees salary in payroll taxes. If you wanna knock the Fair Tax, at least study up on it before you formulate an argument. I have for your convenience already posted a thread regarding the plan that you can read over.

[stebo0728]

I seem to be having trouble judging which side of the economic fence you are on here. Internet sales tax is a complicated issue, but it seeks to LEVEL the playing field, to right some inbalances that already exist for LOCAL businesses

I should clarify that to say that the inbalances existing go against local business, not for them.

[IBCoupe]

I can imagine it's a lot easier to run a small business and manage your sales online than it is to maintain a brick-and-mortar store. Is it really that much of an imbalance against small businesses?

[stebo0728]

I can imagine it's a lot easier to run a small business and manage your sales online than it is to maintain a brick-and-mortar store. Is it really that much of an imbalance against small businesses?

I didnt say SMALL businesses, I said LOCAL businesses.

[IBCoupe]

My mistake. Doesn't the absence of an internet sales tax promote the existing trend of moving away from purely "local" sellers?

What I'm getting towards is: is there really a problem that needs addressing? What's the benefit in preserving localization?

[stebo0728]

My mistake. Doesn't the absence of an internet sales tax promote the existing trend of moving away from purely "local" sellers?

What I'm getting towards is: is there really a problem that needs addressing? What's the benefit in preserving localization?

Thats probably more an opinion based question. I can imagine myself wanting to maintain more localization, both in commerce and governing. Likewise I can imagine you may want more globalization of both.

[IBCoupe]

I see globalization as the natural trend on the internet. I don't have a preference one way or the other; I simply don't object to the natural changing of the world.

[stebo0728]

Any change where MAN is involved is hardly natural LOL (dont be a turd nugget and bring up climate change either, we've been there done that discussion)

[IBCoupe]

That really depends on your view of mankind, especially the human brain. But since you're a self-identified "fundamental Baptist," if I recall, I imagine you won't take kindly to the "the human brain is nothing more than a very advanced computer" argument.

[stebo0728]

Well thats touchy. I would agree with you because I dont believe the essence of MAN is confined within the brain. The brain can be viewed as a biological computer of sorts, although I dont believe it functions anywhere near the way a traditional computer does. Many of these aspects are still lost on us. Its more the nature of man thats in question, not their biological makeup.

[IBCoupe]

That, too, is a matter of opinion. If one thinks that the nature of man is very much derived from our biological make-up, or even entirely so, there's nothing unnatural about economics. Or government, for that matter.