Intermittant Starter '94 Q

[JeffTepper]

Strange thing happened this afternoon. While at the car wash the vacuum guy couldn't get the car started and asked me to help. There is power to everything but the starter wouldn't turn the engine over or make a peep. We checked the battery cables for tightness, disconnected the negative cable for a moment as a hard boot, tried a jump start, checked the security system remote arming and disarming with no apparent improvement. I moved the shift lever from "P" to "N" to see if a neutral start safety circuit might be the culprit, again no change. Finally called AAA for a tow home. The tow truck driver also took a quick look before winching the car onto the flatbed. Once home, the tow truck driver climbed in to move the shift lever from "P" to "N" and while there turned the key to "Start" and the car started right up as usual.

In attempting to do further troubleshooting, I looked at the FSM section on the alarm system and found "Check theft warning relay #2" as the second step in the trouble shooting section (page EL-194). Check it for what? How? Procedure for determining it is "good" or "bad"? I would prefer to actually diagnose the problem rather than start throwing new parts at it until it starts reliably again.

I next did a search here and was unable to find a thread on point.

What could the issue(s) be? The battery is in its 3rd year and has a 96 month warranty. A check of the battery voltage with the engine not running showed 12.67 volts. (with the engine running it reads 14.16 volts) Ambient temp here today is in the mid 80's. Note that the car has never exhibited this symptom before and the car had not yet been run through the wash so water splashing on something is not a factor (the car is still dirty on the outside) I parked the car and let it sit for a couple of hours and just now tried to start it and all works as it should.

Thanks in advance for any truly helpful suggestions and tips.

[Q45tech]

15 years is excellant long life for a starter. Mine lasted 17 years and I jumped for joy.Exactly how many cranks has yours been used?

One removes starter, disassembles, cleans wear dust, and measures the length of the brushes to see if worth reassembling and reinstalling.

Some of 2002 Q starters are failing in higher than expected numbers now after only 7 years.

[goody90q45]

Mileage? Click, click, click when you turn the key or nothing?

Weak battery, marginal battery clamps, corrosion at starter connections, starter relay, and starter solenoid (integral to the starter) are the usual culprits.

It sounds like you have the battery and battery connections covered so next would be to clean the connections at the starter and if money's not tight replace the starter relay ($50?). Blue, 2 plug, near the ABS. It's an intermittent problem so testing the relay might give you false hope. See location of electrical units and the starter relay test procedure in the EL section of the FSM.

A lot of owners have had the same problem and chances are about 60/40 against you that the starter will also need replacing. Good luck with the gremlins.

[JeffTepper]

Thanks for the reply. In answer to your questions, the car has 113,000 miles and the typical solenoid click, click, click of a failing battery was not one of the symptoms today.

At this point I will replace the starter relay and clean up the connections at the starter and see what happens. I'll report back after I have some miles on this fix.

[blacklist74]

Same thing happened to me two month ago.. Change the starter relay located close to the firewall in the engine department (Passanger side). That should do the trick....

[JeffTepper]

***UPDATE***

At Q45tech's suggestion, I removed the starter and took it in to the local rebuilder. Sure enough the brushes on the starter were worn significantly. I had them go through the starter and do a complete refurbishing ($80.00) and now it's back in the car. So far it has started successfully 5 times!! Thanks again Q45tech.

[Q45tech]

Just 7 starts per day in 15 years is 38,325 starts. A scientist would measure the number of atoms dislodged from the brushes for each start.........thats over 20 hours of use.

[qship96]

Just 7 starts per day in 15 years is 38,325 starts. A scientist would measure the number of atoms dislodged from the brushes for each start.........thats over 20 hours of use.

20 hours use seems like peanuts- I had a Panasonic table fan that I ran every single night {8-10 hours a night} that lasted almost 20 years!!!! thats 73,000 hours!!!!! Brushes finally wore down and quit.