The web site AutoSpies has an interesting take on why Infinity can't sell M45s and Q45s. I tend to agree with them.
Also, if you dig around on the site they have a possible picture of the new M45.
Check them out.http://www.imakenews.com/autospies
Interesting News Bit
The spies forgot to mention the biggest factor in slow sales. LEASE PAYMENT. Who cares ifthe Q is cheaper than a Lexus when the dismal depreciation of the Q makes the LS only a few bucks more a month.
Not to mention that the typical Lexus dealer is lightyears ahaed of infiniti when it comes to customer service and satisfaction.
Oh and there is that vaunted 340HP engine which still can't beat a 430 0-60.
No offense, I'm a Q owner, but I haven't bought a new one because it doesn't make financial sense.
Not to mention that the typical Lexus dealer is lightyears ahaed of infiniti when it comes to customer service and satisfaction.
Oh and there is that vaunted 340HP engine which still can't beat a 430 0-60.
No offense, I'm a Q owner, but I haven't bought a new one because it doesn't make financial sense.
I'm confused, and I'm an ex LS400 owner, and a current Q owner, now let me get this straight...the lease payment on the Q is a few dollars LESS than the LS430? And this makes the Q a bad deal? It makes it a GREAT deal, and it's just not a few dollars, it's a LOT of dollars cheaper on a monthly basis. The Q DOES have a low residual value at lease end but this is an advantage to the lessee and is only a problem for Infiniti, not us as buyers. High Depreciation is only a problem if you BUY it, if you lease it works for you in terms of a lower payment, then when it comes off lease after 3 years and the residual is in the tank, the dealer will offer you the $60,000 car for $25,000 with simple interest at 5-6% for 60-80 months. this is great stuff for us, it's only bad for Infiniti.
The original point of the thread was that infiniti can't sell as many cars as lexus.
I think it's because of market perception which manifests itself in Dealer Experiance, Past Performance (the Q went from BMW fighter to upscale Buick, to LS competitor, hard for the market to understand what it is) and has resulted in low brand recognition and value perception, thus low resale.
The problem with the lease is the average buyer would rather been seem in a Lexus than the infiniti if the LS is only a few bucks more. Not to mention the perception of the LS being a better car, with better service, better resale, etc.
A loaded Q is about 10K cheaper than the loaded LS, but the lease payment makes them almost identical in monthly price. So, if you are an average buyer and you can get a 10K more expensive car for 20-30 bucks more a month. You think the LS is a better deal and drive it home.
Not to mention that the new infiniti showrooms look like a damn used car lot with all the cars in there.
I think it's because of market perception which manifests itself in Dealer Experiance, Past Performance (the Q went from BMW fighter to upscale Buick, to LS competitor, hard for the market to understand what it is) and has resulted in low brand recognition and value perception, thus low resale.
The problem with the lease is the average buyer would rather been seem in a Lexus than the infiniti if the LS is only a few bucks more. Not to mention the perception of the LS being a better car, with better service, better resale, etc.
A loaded Q is about 10K cheaper than the loaded LS, but the lease payment makes them almost identical in monthly price. So, if you are an average buyer and you can get a 10K more expensive car for 20-30 bucks more a month. You think the LS is a better deal and drive it home.
Not to mention that the new infiniti showrooms look like a damn used car lot with all the cars in there.
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jtesensky
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2002 Infiniti QX4 - Contact:
The Q hasn't had a real indentity since the 1st gen G50 model series. Even though they stole plenty of little interior ideas from MB, it was the only real competition Lexus has had since it's conception in 1989 (in my opinion). The new G's & FX's are on the prowl but these aren't real high line models.
In the Baltimore/Washington area I have consistently seen Q45 leases quoted below $600 a month, $549 once I believe. I'm sure that was not a premium and it wasn't a sign and drive either, but can you really get a ls430 for a few dollars more a month? I wasn't aware of that and I'm surprised, because I did not know they had a model of that car that they could price near 50k, like a non premium Q. I thought all ls430s were at least 60k. By the way I'm an ex ls400 owner and have owned my 92 Q since new and I would rate the Infiniti dealer sevice better than Lexus. I also own 3 American brands, don't even let me start on those dealers!
Mine runs pretty darn good. I haven't taken her to the track yet but my seat of the pants-o-meter tells me she is OK. My previous cars include an E55, 12.5 second 02 Camaro SS and a low 11 second supercharged 98 Z28. The 02 Qship is a heavy car and the torque doesn't hppen real low in the rpm band. The throttle tip in is a little on the slow side also. Once she gets motivated all Hell breaks loose. I think it is a fabulous combination of luxury and performance.
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Jeff Williams
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My local Infiniti dealer (Wendle Infiniti, Spokane WA) crams its Infiniti stock in with Nissan.
When you walk into the Wendle showroom, you see a G35, I35, and FX35 crammed on one side, all smooshed next to a Sentra, Altima, and Maxima on the other side.
That's not too good for brand identity.
The only M45s and Q45s I saw were still wrapped in plastic, parked in the locked area in the back of the service garage. None of them were ready for show. In the past year, I have only seen one Q45 on open display.
Then when you pull up to the service department, each service booth window and door reads "Nissan is Infiniti"
Well thats nice, but an upscale buyer probably doesnt care to be reminded that he's driving a high-end Nissan. He needs to feel like he's buying an Infiniti, and only an Infiniti.
The dealer experience, service experience, and product need to be on a completely different level (a higher level, preferably).
Constrastingly, in other towns, I see Infinitis being sold alongside Lexus, BMW, Ferarri, and Porsche.
When's the last time you visited a Lexus dealer where "Toyota is Lexus" was posted on every window and no LS430s were available to look at?
-Jesda
When you walk into the Wendle showroom, you see a G35, I35, and FX35 crammed on one side, all smooshed next to a Sentra, Altima, and Maxima on the other side.
That's not too good for brand identity.
The only M45s and Q45s I saw were still wrapped in plastic, parked in the locked area in the back of the service garage. None of them were ready for show. In the past year, I have only seen one Q45 on open display.
Then when you pull up to the service department, each service booth window and door reads "Nissan is Infiniti"
Well thats nice, but an upscale buyer probably doesnt care to be reminded that he's driving a high-end Nissan. He needs to feel like he's buying an Infiniti, and only an Infiniti.
The dealer experience, service experience, and product need to be on a completely different level (a higher level, preferably).
Constrastingly, in other towns, I see Infinitis being sold alongside Lexus, BMW, Ferarri, and Porsche.
When's the last time you visited a Lexus dealer where "Toyota is Lexus" was posted on every window and no LS430s were available to look at?
-Jesda
I will say it again -- the new Q is just flat out boring to look at. But for the headlights, it is just a big fat Mazda. In that market, the car needs to combine class with a touch of an exotic streak. That is what the first Q did in its day. The Q should not be a LS competitor. The concept was a pure high end sport luxo sedan. Some body forgot to put the "sport" in the current appearance. That touch has not been forgotten on the new G's or FX's and they are selling well. With the Q selling just over 800 units in the first four months of the year (ie. 2400/yr) its days are surely numbered. With such low volumes, this may be a very expensive car to maintain as it ages. I doubt that many parts will be in stock, and Nissan will exact a heavy toll for the parts. I would not touch it. Its unfortunate for the current Q that the bias towards the Q held by the members of this board do not carry into the general market. On the bright side, the failure of this car will force them to come up with a better Q. Perhaps some innovative looks will appear as has been sen on the G and FX. As Triumph use to say (about the TR 7's and 8's) "The shape of things to come" ! I bet that we soon see a new design that will make a statement. The sooner the better!
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J-Owner
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First off you can get an LS430 for less than $60K. My mom just bought one and she paid $52K. It had everything on it except for navigation, she did not want it. They do sell for less.
Also, people on here can correct me if I am wrong but Infiniti's do not retain there value very well at all. I am not sure why but it is true.
One of you said that you do not think of Infiniti in the same sentence as BMW, Lexus and Mercedes. I agree with that but I have never understood why. In my opinion an Infiniti is every bit as good of a car as a Lexus. Both car lines surfaced in '89 I guess but they did not hit the market hard with advertising until '90, if memory serves me correctly. Lexus totally pulverized Infiniti in there ad campaigns. If Infiniti had been as aggressive in the beginning as Lexus and as aggressive as they should have been, Infiniti would today have the same prestige of ownership as Lexus.
In addition, I get excellent service from Crest Infiniti in Plano. I do have my occasional fights with them when I feel like they are screwing me over but we can always negotiate fairly and I respect them for that. I have no complaints against Infiniti at all. I keep hanging onto my J because it is a beautiful luxurious car that I paid $38K for and I am not going to give it away as a trade for $3K. If they still made the J I would buy another one in a heart beat. the G is a great car but too sporty for me I like luxury. I35 looks like a maxima. I don't want to drive a car that looks like another car line. The M is overpriced but despite the bad reviews I like the looks of it, I like boxy cars, but too costly. The Q, well I have too many things to do in my life, travel, etc. to spend $60K on a car. $600 a month for a car payment is my max.
Infiniti is just as good as lexus! period! Without the snooty negative overtone that goes with Lexus. I'll give you an example. I am an avid Brooks Brothers client. I like the clothing because their emblem (a suspended lamb) is not always recognizable by most people. I don't have to have a big Tommy Hillfiger patch slapped across my A55 for everyone to see. This is how I feel about Infiniti if you understand what I am saying. I know its a great car and screw anyone who doesn't agree. Again "own one and you will understand"
On another note, I thought about switching to Lexus and getting a 2003 ES 300. Til I drove it. It only had 210 horsepower, like riding on a turtles back. Anyway, during the course of negotiating, the salesperson said this was his final offer and said and I quote, "Well Sir, to be honest with you, you are not our top priority, repeat Lexus buyers come first" To which my reply was to get up and leave his office. This was exactly why I did not want a Lexus.
Glad I didn't buy it. Anyway, sorry for the novel guys. Everyone take care.
Also, people on here can correct me if I am wrong but Infiniti's do not retain there value very well at all. I am not sure why but it is true.
One of you said that you do not think of Infiniti in the same sentence as BMW, Lexus and Mercedes. I agree with that but I have never understood why. In my opinion an Infiniti is every bit as good of a car as a Lexus. Both car lines surfaced in '89 I guess but they did not hit the market hard with advertising until '90, if memory serves me correctly. Lexus totally pulverized Infiniti in there ad campaigns. If Infiniti had been as aggressive in the beginning as Lexus and as aggressive as they should have been, Infiniti would today have the same prestige of ownership as Lexus.
In addition, I get excellent service from Crest Infiniti in Plano. I do have my occasional fights with them when I feel like they are screwing me over but we can always negotiate fairly and I respect them for that. I have no complaints against Infiniti at all. I keep hanging onto my J because it is a beautiful luxurious car that I paid $38K for and I am not going to give it away as a trade for $3K. If they still made the J I would buy another one in a heart beat. the G is a great car but too sporty for me I like luxury. I35 looks like a maxima. I don't want to drive a car that looks like another car line. The M is overpriced but despite the bad reviews I like the looks of it, I like boxy cars, but too costly. The Q, well I have too many things to do in my life, travel, etc. to spend $60K on a car. $600 a month for a car payment is my max.
Infiniti is just as good as lexus! period! Without the snooty negative overtone that goes with Lexus. I'll give you an example. I am an avid Brooks Brothers client. I like the clothing because their emblem (a suspended lamb) is not always recognizable by most people. I don't have to have a big Tommy Hillfiger patch slapped across my A55 for everyone to see. This is how I feel about Infiniti if you understand what I am saying. I know its a great car and screw anyone who doesn't agree. Again "own one and you will understand"
On another note, I thought about switching to Lexus and getting a 2003 ES 300. Til I drove it. It only had 210 horsepower, like riding on a turtles back. Anyway, during the course of negotiating, the salesperson said this was his final offer and said and I quote, "Well Sir, to be honest with you, you are not our top priority, repeat Lexus buyers come first" To which my reply was to get up and leave his office. This was exactly why I did not want a Lexus.
Glad I didn't buy it. Anyway, sorry for the novel guys. Everyone take care.
The new Q does have an odd "asian amphibian" look to it, while the first-gen looked more like a prowling cat.
As far as headlights.. as a Mazda fanatic I dont see anything Mazda-like in the new Q45 lights.
The nice thing about Infiniti, is the snob AND performance appeal without the excessive image of Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW.
I recall my parents making an offer many years ago for a 1995 MB E-class at Sutherland Motors, and the sales person laughed at them.
So we left.
The next day, gift baskets showed up at the door and apologies were made. The original "laughable" offer was accepted too.
But back then, I was 16, and my folks had never even for a second considered buying an Infiniti. It never occured to me either, when they asked for my input, to recommend the brand. I forgot it even existed.
They werent after performance. They never even drove the Benz after they bought it. It was built like a Panzer... drove like one too.
They kept it in the driveway to show off to the neighbors. If you want to spend $40,000 to tell someone you've "made it", you'll go for the brand with perceived prestige over the brand trying to create it.
But back then, I think it came down to brand awareness. Even now, I feel inundated with Lexus and Cadillac ads. A smidge for Infiniti.
As far as headlights.. as a Mazda fanatic I dont see anything Mazda-like in the new Q45 lights.
The nice thing about Infiniti, is the snob AND performance appeal without the excessive image of Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW.
I recall my parents making an offer many years ago for a 1995 MB E-class at Sutherland Motors, and the sales person laughed at them.
So we left.
The next day, gift baskets showed up at the door and apologies were made. The original "laughable" offer was accepted too.
But back then, I was 16, and my folks had never even for a second considered buying an Infiniti. It never occured to me either, when they asked for my input, to recommend the brand. I forgot it even existed.
They werent after performance. They never even drove the Benz after they bought it. It was built like a Panzer... drove like one too.
They kept it in the driveway to show off to the neighbors. If you want to spend $40,000 to tell someone you've "made it", you'll go for the brand with perceived prestige over the brand trying to create it.
But back then, I think it came down to brand awareness. Even now, I feel inundated with Lexus and Cadillac ads. A smidge for Infiniti.
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jmatas
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- Car: Infiniti stuff, Steelers and Penn St. Football, Ferrari F1, Apple computers, spending money
This quote has me scratching my head:
"We're pretty sure though, that EVERY car that came out of the La Jolla studios has been a winner so far and the ones from Japan, are the ones taking gas.
Well, in this game, sales dictate everything.
So if you're designer in Socal for Nissan/Infiniti, you've proved your point.
The Spies will venture to guess, now that the sales numbers are in, future US bound models, will ALL be designed in Socal."
This after praising the sales of the G35 Coupe/Sedan, FX35/45, and I35... all of which were designed in Japan. In fact, to my knowledge, the La Jolla studio hasn't designed a single infiniti.
"We're pretty sure though, that EVERY car that came out of the La Jolla studios has been a winner so far and the ones from Japan, are the ones taking gas.
Well, in this game, sales dictate everything.
So if you're designer in Socal for Nissan/Infiniti, you've proved your point.
The Spies will venture to guess, now that the sales numbers are in, future US bound models, will ALL be designed in Socal."
This after praising the sales of the G35 Coupe/Sedan, FX35/45, and I35... all of which were designed in Japan. In fact, to my knowledge, the La Jolla studio hasn't designed a single infiniti.
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
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1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
smooth and efficient
I'm with elwesso. They look sippery and efficient to me. If I need an image, I'll get a Hummer (and suffer for it).
For looks:
Acura RL = Mercedes E-ClassLexus LS430 = Tail of Acura RL, face of older Mercedes S-class, ride of a Deville.
And you cant look at the LS or the RL from afar and easily say "Hey, thats a Lexus!" or "Hey, thats an Acura!" Its kind of like drinking average Folgers coffee that you paid a high premium for.
Interestingly, the only full-size luxury cars left with their own definitive styling are the BMW 3-series and 5-series, Cadillac Deville/DTS, the Q45, any Audi, and any Jaguar.
Every BMW looks almost the same, and that seems like a pretty good thing. The brand identity is very strong.
Sometimes, I feel like the new Jaguars are Taurus-like parodies of old Jaguars.
Acura RL = Mercedes E-ClassLexus LS430 = Tail of Acura RL, face of older Mercedes S-class, ride of a Deville.
And you cant look at the LS or the RL from afar and easily say "Hey, thats a Lexus!" or "Hey, thats an Acura!" Its kind of like drinking average Folgers coffee that you paid a high premium for.
Interestingly, the only full-size luxury cars left with their own definitive styling are the BMW 3-series and 5-series, Cadillac Deville/DTS, the Q45, any Audi, and any Jaguar.
Every BMW looks almost the same, and that seems like a pretty good thing. The brand identity is very strong.
Sometimes, I feel like the new Jaguars are Taurus-like parodies of old Jaguars.
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sijoko
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When the 1990 Q came out, I was blown away.
The attention to detail was outstanding. It was nice to see without being in your face. The car had balance.
If I could sum it up with one phrase, it would be:
"Power with grace"
I really want to like the new Q as much as the original, but I can't. The biggest problem for me is the look of the headlights. Maybe some eyelids might help out.
The attention to detail was outstanding. It was nice to see without being in your face. The car had balance.
If I could sum it up with one phrase, it would be:
"Power with grace"
I really want to like the new Q as much as the original, but I can't. The biggest problem for me is the look of the headlights. Maybe some eyelids might help out.
Even though I love my 240 and my 200sx has been great to me, I'd get a 5 series or a Benz over a Q or an M. I think the point of having a luxury car is comfort and status. There's just something about that Benz logo that says, "status".
I think Autospies has a good point. Now they need to go and spy a new Silvia coming to the states. I'd like to even see a 250SX. They could work the bugs out of that QR25DE engine and make it rear wheel drive! :rockon
I think Autospies has a good point. Now they need to go and spy a new Silvia coming to the states. I'd like to even see a 250SX. They could work the bugs out of that QR25DE engine and make it rear wheel drive! :rockon
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Jeff Williams
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2000 Infiniti I30t
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Quote »I'd get a 5 series or a Benz over a Q or an M. I think the point of having a luxury car is comfort and status. There's just something about that Benz logo that says, "status".[/quote]
Sunday, I saw a slammed VW Golf with 18" chromies, a Honda Civic-aftermarket Wing, and a BMW emblem glued to the trunk.
Now there is the perfect car!:ylsuper
Now, back to reality. If you want to impress other people with your car, buy a monster truck!
Sunday, I saw a slammed VW Golf with 18" chromies, a Honda Civic-aftermarket Wing, and a BMW emblem glued to the trunk.
Now there is the perfect car!:ylsuper
Now, back to reality. If you want to impress other people with your car, buy a monster truck!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by creophus "]Even though I love my 240 and my 200sx has been great to me, I'd get a 5 series or a Benz over a Q or an M. I think the point of having a luxury car is comfort and status. There's just something about that Benz logo that says, "status".
OK, Iam an "older" guy who has owned: 1 BMW, 2 Audi's, 6MB's including 3 S classes and an E55, 1 Lexus (current LX470) and 3 Infiniti's ( 92 Q & wifes 93 J ) and my current 02 Q. I would never buy a car for "status". I spend my $$ for safety, comfort and performance. I loved my 92Q but I can honestly say the 02 is far superior. The technology is incredible. While the look may not be for everybody, what car is? There is a car designed for everybodies taste and budget. My 02 has one of the best designed and comfortable interiors of any car I have ever owned and that is a lot of cars.I looked at the LS430 while shopping for the LX470 (wifes). The car is very vanilla and not for me. I applaude Infiniti for taking a chance with the design of their cars. I still believe that an effective marketing plan would get people into the dealers. Once there, assuming the dealers treat people properly, the cars would sell themselves.
OK, Iam an "older" guy who has owned: 1 BMW, 2 Audi's, 6MB's including 3 S classes and an E55, 1 Lexus (current LX470) and 3 Infiniti's ( 92 Q & wifes 93 J ) and my current 02 Q. I would never buy a car for "status". I spend my $$ for safety, comfort and performance. I loved my 92Q but I can honestly say the 02 is far superior. The technology is incredible. While the look may not be for everybody, what car is? There is a car designed for everybodies taste and budget. My 02 has one of the best designed and comfortable interiors of any car I have ever owned and that is a lot of cars.I looked at the LS430 while shopping for the LX470 (wifes). The car is very vanilla and not for me. I applaude Infiniti for taking a chance with the design of their cars. I still believe that an effective marketing plan would get people into the dealers. Once there, assuming the dealers treat people properly, the cars would sell themselves.
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elwesso
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"5 series or a Benz over a Q or an M. I think the point of having a luxury car is comfort and status"
I dont know what your thinking, but I rode in a 2000 7 series and the ride was not what i was expecting, and the seats were rock hard, or as they like to say "supportive". The only reason you would buy it is for its popularity. My 94q is more comfortable than the 7 series. They look awesome, performe awesome, and handle awesome, but their "luxuary" features arent up to par of others, like lexus and infiniti.
IMO, everyone else can like your car, but if you dont like it, then it does no good. To the trained eye, infintis are the best, but not everyone has such a trained eye.
I dont know what your thinking, but I rode in a 2000 7 series and the ride was not what i was expecting, and the seats were rock hard, or as they like to say "supportive". The only reason you would buy it is for its popularity. My 94q is more comfortable than the 7 series. They look awesome, performe awesome, and handle awesome, but their "luxuary" features arent up to par of others, like lexus and infiniti.
IMO, everyone else can like your car, but if you dont like it, then it does no good. To the trained eye, infintis are the best, but not everyone has such a trained eye.
Mercedes Benz has some SERIOUS quality control problems. Why the Chrysler side is improving, the Benz side of the merger is suffering. Designs are interesting, prices are rising, but the C320 reviewed in Autoweek cant keep a glove box in or take a turn without making a horrid creaking sound. They had over two dozen quality-related repairs done in 22,000 miles.