Intake?

[xxtrizz]

I was curious has anyone ever thought about putting a front mount intake on their KA? You could just get the front part and put in some custom piping. Would that increas the air flow? Do you think that would merit bigger injetors? Hmm me likey bouncy!

[Unterhandler]

Front mount intakes..those things that look like fake intercoolers?From what I remember, they're not as good or even close to a normal aftermarket intake.

So...I'd say, No and No.

[240marcuSX]

i guess it would increase flow over the stock air box, but it wouldnt warrent bigger injectors. i think the consensus is to just buy a regular intake, or CAI.

[Nathan]

Yeah man, its about 80% as good as a turbo. Hence, you should upgrade to 550cc injectors. Dont worry about the ecu tuning, or s-afc etc. The extra air will offset the engine running rich. You can also do away with your MAF with this setup!

[xxtrizz]

Man I knew that posting this would merit a bad ressponse post. But it was kinda funny because I know you were being sarcastic. But honestly in a scientific sense it seems to me that the air for the front mount would be colder than the CAI also the air into the intake manifold would be greater i would assume.

The reason I asked is if I was running a High N/A compression engine which actually constitutes the need for a intake not a I/C. I would be running leaner than stock. So if I infact put a front mount intake I would actually put more air into the system which would make me run leaner. So that would also merit the fact that I would need larger injectors maybe stock SR ones as per needed in the High compression set up from the DOHC head and SOHC block which was proved inside the frankenstein post.

So im assuming if in fact I had a good piping made or even modified a CAI piping to work with the front mount intake then I would infact be getting larger amounts of air into the system and cool it off proficiently.

Any suggestions would be appreciated and no im not a ricer, this would be an interesting suggestion that might actually take prescedence over a CAI intake. Providing the intake filter is of top quality.

[Unterhandler]

You could always just get a cold air intake from, say, Apex'I and just ala' Simpson add some "Speed holes" to the hood. You would probably get a better effect and less piping.

[xxtrizz]

i would assuem that the CAI has about 2 times as much piping seeing as how the thing stretches across the front of the vehicle and down through the air box location from what I can tell.

The front mount is direct ot the front and would probably be 1 foot and a half or maybe even a foot long. Would seem to be shorter to me.

[deviousKA]

Just relocate your battery and go with a short ram intake and good large filter. If you want to you can build some ducts to try gets some colder air up from the bottom

[Camel]

Just turn a regular intake vertical and put it through a hole in the hood....hehehe...

Seriously, running a front mount might net you the same as a cai, but the reason a cai works so well is it helps to lean the mix just a hair. not enough to merit larger injectors. the small lean is where you are getting the increase from. the motor compensates for the increased o2 and you get a little more power.

[raging panda]

How do you guys figure that it will run rich just because of a CAI? It is bigger, but you're maf isn't, and since all the air has to go through there, more air won't be introduced, just colder and faster. Bigger injectors won't be needed since the maf will see all the air coming in a adjust the fuel accordingly. Someone correct me if im wrong.

[xxtrizz]

If say you had a cooling agent to push air into an intake like a fan would that make the air colder right? If that is the truth then if you customized a front mount with a permacool low cfm or high cfm fan onto the front of it would it not help to push cold air into the intake?

Im basically thinking about how cold you can get the air into the intake right now. Seems the MAF and O2 sensor do the regulating of the air fuel mixture. SO im not to worried abou the theory behind the right mixture of air and fuel.

[Camel]

How do you guys figure that it will run rich just because of a CAI? It is bigger, but you're maf isn't, and since all the air has to go through there, more air won't be introduced, just colder and faster. Bigger injectors won't be needed since the maf will see all the air coming in a adjust the fuel accordingly. Someone correct me if im wrong.

It won't run rich, it will run lean and adjust accordingly.

[xxtrizz]

So what about that cooling agent? Is that a plausible idea? Dont say "no cause its a gay idea and your gay" Im looking more along the lines of yeah that might infact work. Or no it wont work because this...

[raging panda]

No, it wouldn't really work. That would be like puting a hair dryer that blew cold air into the engine, it wouldn't really make a difference. It would have to be a gigantic fan so its unreasonable.

[DailyDrivers13]

Honestly, in my opinion I don't see why your front mount intake idea would fail. It looks to me like your goal is simply to introduce colder air into your engine.

Since your MAF is just as stock as before the only way you can flow a larger volume of air into that chamber is if the air itself were colder.

The coldest air avalible is the ambient air outside of your car... @ night in some areas that's like below 60 degrees F. I see your concern about and adequte fuel mix so upgrading your injectors could only benefit your intake mod considering it (the FM intake) was at all succesfull.

I say go for it. You'll see gains in my opinion!

[Camel]

you will see no more gains than a standard cai, and you do not need larger injectors for that.

Unless you pressurize the air going into the intake, you won't need more fuel.

[xxtrizz]

well I guess I didnt illude to the fact that I will infact be rebuilding my engine at a higher compression than standard and if I hone my head it will raise that compression up some.

So I was thinking aloud without including all the info. If my compression is net about 10.7 and I had a FMI then I would probably need stock sr injectors maybe. Who knows.

But yeah the permacool fan is pretty big if you ask me. If in all actuality I custom fit one on the intake infront of the radiator itself then I would be taking cold air from the ambient outside air and cooling it off even more and also be directing the flow into the intake itself with the fan. Seems like a pretty choice idea to me. The fan would be basically a "cooling/direction of flow agent".Who knows maybe I could even make a custom shroud for the intake jsut liek the mechanical shroud so that it hugs the blade edges from the intake sides and only allows air that passes through the fan itself into the intake?

Hmmm so many ideas. But I would assume that this air is colder and at my compression with the higher volumn of air in the engine I would probably need larger injectors. Now that is only speculative but im guessing I might need them. I know a compression of 11.7 with a stock intake needs larger injectors. Only the stock SR ones though. I mean this is all going to be reprogrammed and what not so upgrading the injectors without tuning it in the ECU would be totally pointless.

Other than that the only thing Im afraid of is water from the road or something else that is a liquid entering my intake. Maybe I should put a bypass valve on it? Do bypass valves restrict air flow alot? If so maybe I can live without one haha.

But scientifically if I cool the air coming in the front and flow it with the fan and have a larger intake surface then I woudl infact also be creating better air volumn in my engine. So it sounds like it works to be honest. The only thing I noticed that might be different between a CAI and a FMI is that the CAI has a designed piping to turn the air and cool it. But honestly how much help is that going to do? maybe if I put a bag of ice on the intake that might work better. If anything Ill just buy the piping and somehow use part of it in my custom piping so there is a portion of it that is cooling off as it enters my intake manifold.

[DailyDrivers13]

I think that using a fan for your FMI design would actually hinder air flow more then help it. With the Intake @ the front mouth of the car, nice and wide open, the suction @ idle is enough to pull in the ambient outside air w/o problems. When you're moving the amount of air raming the system itself should be porportionate to the speed of the car so in that sense, why would you even need a fan? Since permacool fans dont bend according to speed like your stock one then you'd probley hinder air flow with the fan blades. Outside air with or w/o the fan won't change a damn thing in regards to temperature either.

You talked about fan position as well. I don't think the position of the fan would matter since both puller and pusher fans are avalible.

I've seen a few of the FMI designs and unlike intercoolers, they seem to have a back wall, so your fan upgrade wouldnt do your intake any justice at all. With our without the intake upgrade, you cant go wrong with bigger injectors.

btw I'm using the 14" permacool puller. I know its CFM rating is double that of stock, it's quiter and you free up some power as well. Just my 2 cents. Good question about the bypass valve. I'm not sure about air restriction.

Good luck

[xxtrizz]

Man you make some valid points Daily driver thanks alot. I was thinking how I would turn any turbulent flow of air from the intake into laminar through the piping, after you said that the fan would be useless. I would have to guess that the permacool pusher on the front of the intake would create large volumnes of turbulent air in the intake.

Do you know if anyone has rated the stock CFM of the intake at idle or at high rpm?

IF so I was thinking that maybe if I put a small but fast flowing cfm fan in near or after the MAF it would convert the turbulent air flow from the instruments of the MAF into a more laminar flow by directing it with a controlled blade speed. The fan of course would be small enough to fit inside the tubing itself. Just think of like a dragon Orb cooler for a PC processor round and would fit inside the piping of the intake powered by relay perhaps that turns the incoming air into a circulating whirlwind. Would cool it off and also propel it into the intake.

Just a thought never seen it doen b4 :P thanks alot btw

[DailyDrivers13]

What you're describing now reminds me of this "electric turbo charging system" I saw on Ebay like a year ago. I'm not sure if you've seen this device before but what it is, is a fan that bolts on between you MAF and air filter. It's electronically controlled and basically It's suppost to suck more air into your intake system. From what I understand this device didn't do so well in the aftermarket enthusiasts arena probley because it didn't work too well. Then again, I don't know, I haven't tried it. (Although I was tempted to... :rolleyes ) Turbo chargers spin @ RPMs beyond 14,000 so I have no idea how effective these eletric things are at rivaling such speeds.

Maybe there have been some improvements to that particular device and perhaps it works today, I dunno. But what I do know is that Ram air systems dont require fans. I also know that air turbulence is also greatly reduced when mandrel bent piping is chosen rather then OEM grade stuff. Mandrel bends combined with Ram air and larger injectors may provide a good gain.

Let us know what you find out, keep up the research.

[DailyDrivers13]

Scratch the injectors, just a fuel pressure increase would be enough to do the job.

[xxtrizz]

Ahh I remember hearing something about those electric superchargers. HAHA. Well I was thinking about using a CAI in conjunction with a electric fan that ran at like 8500 rpm. I was going to use 3 metal cone adapters and place it on the end of the CAI then bolt on the fan then put the other on the other end of the fan a and then rubber boot the maf up to that then put another on so I can put a good filter on the end.

Im not trying to make it a supercharger or anything I think the non popularity for this set up was because it didnt help that much probably only 1 hp but hell inginuity is what wins shows right? HAHA Even so I have another idea for the intake so this Idea should supplement my major upgrade to the intake.