I'm glad to hear the EC3 is working for you. Mine actually runs quite well on the EC1 but I do like tha additional features.
I find little reason to experiment with the air temp sensor. What you are experimenting with is likely the timing map for the coolant sensor or some other timing correction map that is erroneously labeled, or the sensor might involve both timing and fuel.
But if you are convinced do as you like. It just seems funny that every discussion on the issue is about fuel.
Intake Air Temp Sensor
Re: (Edub1)
Dude iam not an idiot i think i know which scale and sensor i test. Indeed I spend sometime playing with all the scales, using wideband and timing light along with consult. And scales are properly labeled in romedit. I gave you a few basic tests so you can see for yourself ….But you find little reason to experiment with the air temp sensor..... yet telling people how it operates somehow.(we can all use google)Edub1 wrote:I'm glad to hear the EC3 is working for you. Mine actually runs quite well on the EC1 but I do like tha additional features.
I find little reason to experiment with the air temp sensor. What you are experimenting with is likely the timing map for the coolant sensor or some other timing correction map that is erroneously labeled, or the sensor might involve both timing and fuel..
=AIT should never be pre-turbo on FA motor, look at what you doing. You making ait tell ur ecu that ambient temp of air entering cylinders is +10degC(whatever it is outside that MINUTE). By the time air travels past hot turbocharger and gets compressed on top on that, temp's INCREASE dramatically. Now the air actually entering your cylinders is way hotter vs what ait told ecu. If ait is past turbo.. it tells ecu temps of air actully entering the cylinder than ecu pulls 1-xdeg of timing per scale and overall cylinder pressure lowers, causing combustion temp's to lower and avoid potential damages due to Heat Soak.
So feel free to stick it pre-turbo and while doing 100km/h it will tell ecu intake temps are 0-2deg C, meanwhile you pushing 20 psi+ and actual temps will be 40degC+ . Your ecu will not pull any timing and cylinder pressure will go to the roof, cause extreme combustion temps and damages.
Our MAF counts air molecules going into the motor. You can compress ,heat , cool the air but the number of air molecules going into the engine will remain exactly the same as counted by the MAF pre turbo. ECU needs to know how many air molecules there are not their temp's, to add the correct number of fuel molecules and resault in a specific postcombastion a/f ratio. Changing timing will affect final a/f reading due to length of combustion but not due to some fuel correction based on ait. And that’s all there is to it. Remamber i am talking ka24e here same theory should aplly to DE exept ir also usses feedback from knock sensor and sets correction in place.
Modified by 180sx at 12:00 AM 3/17/2007
Re: (180sx)
OK, I did a little more research. Some IAT sensors do affect timing, but their main purpose is to add fuel for cold start. Some even compare the IAT with the coolant sensor to help determine this.
The ones that affect timing were located in positions where air warmed by engine heat is measured.
In the KA engine the IAT sensor is located in the air box and is designed to read ambiant air temp, not air that might be heated from the motor as would be the case if it was relocated too the cold pipe.
Suppose the IAT sensor does pull timing as heat increases. This would in fact be a reason NOT to relocate it. To do so would be to add more variables into your actual timing output. Instead of measuring ambiant air you would measure air that is heated by a turbo, cooled by an FMIC involves more heat soak from the engine and then makes a timing correction at unpredictible times and possibly to an unintended extent.
Most probably, this would change the correction from a linear one based on ambiant air, to a more radical one based on all the things mentioned above.
Since there is no way to accuratly predict what this will do, the best approach would be to leave it in its stock location and address timing through tuning.
I must admit that while the idea of a heat based anit-knock system does sound interesting, it would certainly involve a bit of experimentation. Untill then it's probably best to leave the IAT sensor measure ambiant air the way it was meant to.
But I'll leave this up to the readers - some people like to error on the side of caution and follow strict scientific ways and others take a more liberal approach and like to go for broke. I just happen to be skeptical when it comes to my motor and so I wouldn't assume that experimental software I got from the internet is always doing exactely what it says just because I notice a tenative correlation between to occurances. Nor would I try to speculate on the outcome of a change made to a system that I am uncertain of.
But that's me - if you think you can predict the precise outcome of introducing all those additional variables into your timing equation, go for it.
The ones that affect timing were located in positions where air warmed by engine heat is measured.
In the KA engine the IAT sensor is located in the air box and is designed to read ambiant air temp, not air that might be heated from the motor as would be the case if it was relocated too the cold pipe.
Suppose the IAT sensor does pull timing as heat increases. This would in fact be a reason NOT to relocate it. To do so would be to add more variables into your actual timing output. Instead of measuring ambiant air you would measure air that is heated by a turbo, cooled by an FMIC involves more heat soak from the engine and then makes a timing correction at unpredictible times and possibly to an unintended extent.
Most probably, this would change the correction from a linear one based on ambiant air, to a more radical one based on all the things mentioned above.
Since there is no way to accuratly predict what this will do, the best approach would be to leave it in its stock location and address timing through tuning.
I must admit that while the idea of a heat based anit-knock system does sound interesting, it would certainly involve a bit of experimentation. Untill then it's probably best to leave the IAT sensor measure ambiant air the way it was meant to.
But I'll leave this up to the readers - some people like to error on the side of caution and follow strict scientific ways and others take a more liberal approach and like to go for broke. I just happen to be skeptical when it comes to my motor and so I wouldn't assume that experimental software I got from the internet is always doing exactely what it says just because I notice a tenative correlation between to occurances. Nor would I try to speculate on the outcome of a change made to a system that I am uncertain of.
But that's me - if you think you can predict the precise outcome of introducing all those additional variables into your timing equation, go for it.
-
nissanfanatic
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:41 pm
- Car: 1992 Nissan 240sx SE
- Contact:
Re: (180sx)
OK, I did a little more research. Some IAT sensors do affect timing, but their main purpose is to add fuel for cold start. Some even compare the IAT with the coolant sensor to help determine this.
The ones that affect timing were located in positions where air warmed by engine heat is measured.
In the KA engine the IAT sensor is located in the air box and is designed to read ambiant air temp, not air that might be heated from the motor as would be the case if it was relocated too the cold pipe.
Suppose the IAT sensor does pull timing as heat increases. This would in fact be a reason NOT to relocate it. To do so would be to add more variables into your actual timing output. Instead of measuring ambiant air you would measure air that is heated by a turbo, cooled by an FMIC involves more heat soak from the engine and then makes a timing correction at unpredictible times and possibly to an unintended extent.
Most probably, this would change the correction from a linear one based on ambiant air, to a more radical one based on all the things mentioned above.
Since there is no way to accuratly predict what this will do, the best approach would be to leave it in its stock location and address timing through tuning.
I must admit that while the idea of a heat based anit-knock system does sound interesting, it would certainly involve a bit of experimentation. Untill then it's probably best to leave the IAT sensor measure ambiant air the way it was meant to.
But I'll leave this up to the readers - some people like to error on the side of caution and follow strict scientific ways and others take a more liberal approach and like to go for broke. I just happen to be skeptical when it comes to my motor and so I wouldn't assume that experimental software I got from the internet is always doing exactely what it says just because I notice a tenative correlation between to occurances. Nor would I try to speculate on the outcome of a change made to a system that I am uncertain of.
But that's me - if you think you can predict the precise outcome of introducing all those additional variables into your timing equation, go for it.
The ones that affect timing were located in positions where air warmed by engine heat is measured.
In the KA engine the IAT sensor is located in the air box and is designed to read ambiant air temp, not air that might be heated from the motor as would be the case if it was relocated too the cold pipe.
Suppose the IAT sensor does pull timing as heat increases. This would in fact be a reason NOT to relocate it. To do so would be to add more variables into your actual timing output. Instead of measuring ambiant air you would measure air that is heated by a turbo, cooled by an FMIC involves more heat soak from the engine and then makes a timing correction at unpredictible times and possibly to an unintended extent.
Most probably, this would change the correction from a linear one based on ambiant air, to a more radical one based on all the things mentioned above.
Since there is no way to accuratly predict what this will do, the best approach would be to leave it in its stock location and address timing through tuning.
I must admit that while the idea of a heat based anit-knock system does sound interesting, it would certainly involve a bit of experimentation. Untill then it's probably best to leave the IAT sensor measure ambiant air the way it was meant to.
But I'll leave this up to the readers - some people like to error on the side of caution and follow strict scientific ways and others take a more liberal approach and like to go for broke. I just happen to be skeptical when it comes to my motor and so I wouldn't assume that experimental software I got from the internet is always doing exactely what it says just because I notice a tenative correlation between to occurances. Nor would I try to speculate on the outcome of a change made to a system that I am uncertain of.
But that's me - if you think you can predict the precise outcome of introducing all those additional variables into your timing equation, go for it.