Inmate Firefighters!?!?!?!?

[ashibah83]

Ok, this is a proposal being brought up in the area i live, its been getting national and recently international attention, so please tell me what you guys think of it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/1 ... 04089.html

[numbnuts240]

i don't see a problem with it.

[frapjap]

They can barely be motivated to pick up the trash on the highway. What makes you think they'll do a good enough job to actually TRY and put out a fire? Plus, its not all to hard to have a guy go missing. If they go through with it, I suppose that the selection process is just that, VERY selective.

[Razi]

I don't see the connection between disliking trash and the ability to put out a fire.

[frapjap]

I don't see the connection between disliking trash and the ability to put out a fire.

The connection is that it is much more unlikely that the inmates will care as much or give as much attention to fire fighting as those folks who are already employed to currently fight fires. This could be the difference between losing 1/2 of your house or losing the other 2 houses next to yours because someone was ignorant of procedures and rules or didn't put as much effort into extinguishing the fire.

[ADDirishboy]

Worked with a TON of them on the Monument fire. They are all in prison for pretty petty crimes, no violence at all. Plus, they all have under a year or so to go in prison. So they let them out to help with the fires. They are all under VERY strict watch as well. And it's not like they really let them out to play. They don't get very close to any actual fire, they are assigned to a bus that has like 30 of them on it and they drive them out and they cut a line. That's really it.

So this scenario that someone is going to lose their house because an inmate was watching it is out. Only we (actual fire fighters) get to get near residences and protect them with an engine by dumping water on it, or burning out the brush around the structures.

There is nothing wrong with it. They are all very well behaved, none have escaped that I have ever heard of, and they are VERY cheap. That is a huge selling factor. If your state is on fire, it costs a TON of money to pay to put it out.

Let's put it into perspective here. In AZ, we had a massive fire, the Wallow fire. Burned over 500,000 acres. Went on for over a month. There was about 6000 fire fighters total there. MINIMUM payment for a wildland guy is $13 an hour. I get about $15. Engine bosses get over $20 an hour. We get over time after 40 hours, just like everyone else. We work 16 hour days. That mean's that halfway through our 3rd shift, we're on overtime pay, and we still have 11 shifts left to go.

Now pay that to 6000 guys. Plus you're paying extra for the apparatus we bring, the food we eat, the clothing we replace when ours breaks, the hose we replace when ours gets a hole in it, anything that breaks, showers for us, and a multitude of other things. You're spending enough as it is, the state will need to save any money they can. Inmate crews are a good choice for that.

[Razi]

I don't see the connection between disliking trash and the ability to put out a fire.

The connection is that it is much more unlikely that the inmates will care as much or give as much attention to fire fighting as those folks who are already employed to currently fight fires. This could be the difference between losing 1/2 of your house or losing the other 2 houses next to yours because someone was ignorant of procedures and rules or didn't put as much effort into extinguishing the fire.

The effort someone puts into picking up trash has nothing to do with how they do other things.

So going by your connection between Trash Picking Enjoyment to Performance in Unrelated Jobs, I'm guessing you would pick the hell out of the trash on the highway and enjoy every minute of it, or you'd be rubbish at everything else.

They are all very well behaved, none have escaped that I have ever heard of, and they are VERY cheap.

Hmm, I'm not sure Tyler, they don't like trash...

[BusyBadger]

[nissangirl74]

They can barely be motivated to pick up the trash on the highway. What makes you think they'll do a good enough job to actually TRY and put out a fire?

Not everyone who is in jail is unmotivated or lazy. You never know, it might be the kick in the a** some petty criminal needs to get his act together and do something productive with his life.

[numbnuts240]

They are all in prison for pretty petty crimes, no violence at all. Plus, they all have under a year or so to go in prison.

this. prisoners who get work release are usually those already accustomed to regular jobs on the outside, or nonviolent, non-repeat offenders. they have a desire to do something with their lives instead of being career criminals. NOBODY is going to be motivated about picking up trash. and as tyler said, they'll probably be assigned support work that a monkey can do so that money wouldn't be wasted on the trained professionals.

[ashibah83]

Worked with a TON of them on the Monument fire. They are all in prison for pretty petty crimes, no violence at all. Plus, they all have under a year or so to go in prison. So they let them out to help with the fires. They are all under VERY strict watch as well. And it's not like they really let them out to play. They don't get very close to any actual fire, they are assigned to a bus that has like 30 of them on it and they drive them out and they cut a line. That's really it.

So this scenario that someone is going to lose their house because an inmate was watching it is out. Only we (actual fire fighters) get to get near residences and protect them with an engine by dumping water on it, or burning out the brush around the structures.

There is nothing wrong with it. They are all very well behaved, none have escaped that I have ever heard of, and they are VERY cheap. That is a huge selling factor. If your state is on fire, it costs a TON of money to pay to put it out.

Let's put it into perspective here. In AZ, we had a massive fire, the Wallow fire. Burned over 500,000 acres. Went on for over a month. There was about 6000 fire fighters total there. MINIMUM payment for a wildland guy is $13 an hour. I get about $15. Engine bosses get over $20 an hour. We get over time after 40 hours, just like everyone else. We work 16 hour days. That mean's that halfway through our 3rd shift, we're on overtime pay, and we still have 11 shifts left to go.

Now pay that to 6000 guys. Plus you're paying extra for the apparatus we bring, the food we eat, the clothing we replace when ours breaks, the hose we replace when ours gets a hole in it, anything that breaks, showers for us, and a multitude of other things. You're spending enough as it is, the state will need to save any money they can. Inmate crews are a good choice for that.

the only problem with your experience is that in this area they will be supplementing the existing on duty fire fighters on residential calls as well, not just brush and wildfires. We dont really have a big issue with wildfires as we are so close to the coast and get plenty of rain. 95% of the calls are in residential areas such as subdivisions.

[ADDirishboy]

Actually, the article doesn't even say what they will be doing, it just says that "inmate's will take over some firefighting jobs" and then goes on to talk about other s***. And honestly, I didn't even read it until now.

Here's what I'm getting out of that article: The Huffington Post is retarded.

There is no way that ANY state will actually pay to put inmate's through fire training. They will establish volunteer department's for fire, and contract out any EMS duties to private companies. It looks like someone on that board was just throwing around ideas, and an a$$ reporter decided to write an article about it.

Seriously, they won't make inmate's ACTUAL firefighters. The IAFF would never let it happen. We have a union just for situations like this.