Info on 240setups

Post by **ITR_KILLR** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

Whats up everbody, I'm new to the 240 forums, I'm from the FWD camp. I've got a 95 200 w/DET, etc, etc, Anyway, I'm lookin into going RWD, I was wondering, what would be a good setup to get me in the 350-400whp range. On my 200 I'm using an INCON GTBB37 on a GTIR manifold, 50LB'ers, @4bar, TTZ maf. (all controlled by a JWT ECU, of course!) Does anybody have a setup similar to this on a 240? Most people I've talked to run T3/T4s on custom manifolds, who makes custom manifolds for silvia DET's, and what are the most common turbos used for big (streetable) power? thanks

Matt

Post by **ITR_KILLR** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

Dauntless, you seem to be "king", around here, what do you say?

Post by **Daunttless** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

::Laughs:: I'll let you know in a bit, by the 400 horsepower and the 3037 I'd figure you have a GTi-R motor correct?

I have some other stuff to take care of then I"d love to chat it up, I'll be back in a little while. : )

Post by **Daunttless** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

Alright, here goes.. : )

Let me start off by saying welcome to RWD, its so much more fun than WWD ( wrong wheel drive : ). Unfortunately, while 350-400 rwhp is attainable on stock internals, it isn't suggestable as it will greatly shorten the lifespan of your motor, unfortunately things aren't as beefy as the GTi-R straight out of the factory. Now, with that said, 320-350rwhp is much more attainable without undue stress. : )

I would have to say that the Incon GTBB37 was a great choice, however it will provide fairly soggy boost response on a RWD SR20, I would suggest going with INCON again and hitting them up for a GT2530, with a bit larger .86 A/R Turbine housing if they'll do it for you. The standard GT2530 with the .64 turbine will be good for about 320 horsepower, with the slightly larger turbine you'd be good for a bit more. The other benefit is you can use the stock manifold, or an upgraded stock manifold if you so desire as they are fairly inexpensive.

Obviously you already know whats required to get to 350 horsepower, as everything else is about the same between the engines, is there anything else I can answer for you? You're probably looking at about 8,000 dollars including engine when its all said and done for 320-350 rwhp. But at least you won't blow the engine up. : )

Enjoy your day!

Post by **pampadori** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

ITR_KILLR wrote:Whats up everbody, I'm new to the 240 forums, I'm from the FWD camp. I've got a 95 200 w/DET, etc, etc, Anyway, I'm lookin into going RWD, I was wondering, what would be a good setup to get me in the 350-400whp range. On my 200 I'm using an INCON GTBB37 on a GTIR manifold, 50LB'ers, @4bar, TTZ maf. (all controlled by a JWT ECU, of course!) Does anybody have a setup similar to this on a 240? Most people I've talked to run T3/T4s on custom manifolds, who makes custom manifolds for silvia DET's, and what are the most common turbos used for big (streetable) power? thanks

Matt

I have setup like yours. i have 50lbs msd, jwt, z32 maf, k3t turbo. k3t is 400rwhp rated. not sure how much lag you have with the hks turbo, but i reach 15psi at about 4000rpm. nothing like the power delivery of the t25. but you can make 400hp with a headgasket, 740cc injectors and a cumputer and maf to run it. 50lbs msd run at 90% at about 340rwhp on my car. i wish i had gone bigger. so the same setup you have on your bb motor will work.shaun

Post by **ITR_KILLR** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

Post by **ITR_KILLR** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

I dont understand why the dual ball-bearing GTBB37 would have "soggy" boost response? what about the GT2835 instead of the 2530, would this not be a better choice, i don't want to be maxing out the turbo. I really didn't want to use a t3/t4, but after seeing some numbers from the CTC turbo kit, I'm interested, what are your thoughts on this kit? also, would it be acceptable to use a S13 blacktop in a 97-98 since I would be ditchin the factory slug, or is it easier to use the s14 det?

( I can't wait to see how the RB26DETT swap goes!, if I had the cash, I would go for it!)

thanks:)

Post by **Daunttless** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

I like appropriately sized turbos for the exact amount of power that is my goal. By soggy I mean you won't have much instantaneous boost with the BB3037, but you're probably used to that with your motor. : )

The GT2835R is a great turbo, you won't be maxing it out and I like the GT BB series better than T3/T4s, but thats just me.

I haven't seen the CTC kit.

If you are going to be doing all these mods, you might as well buy a s13 redtop and paint the valve cover. : ) The wiring will be a little bit more difficult, but for your goals you'd be better off with a redtop, but thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Yeah, I can't wait to see how it turns out either, we'll have lots of video footage. : )

Anything else?

Enjoy your day!

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

http://www.ctcmotorsports.com/nissan.php

Post by **mattback** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

OH god where to begin. First let me say this.

With the proper tuning, the limits of the red top are VERY VERY high. Two very good friends of mine , Glenn and Scott, are both well over 370 WHEEL horsepower for months now, and have not had problems with anything but driveline parts. These numbers are done on t3/t04e turbochargers at approximately 20 pounds of boost.

Soggy boost response is because of poor exhaust wheel chocies and too large of an A/R On the exhaust housing. For almost all SR's and 8.5:1 compression, there is almost no need to run anything larger than a .70 A/R. The .63 t3 exhaust housing is ideal for any SR20DET that has any sort of redline below 7800 RPM. There is just not enough flow to merit the .82 A/R housing. You guys can disagree with me, but I have dyno graphs to back this statement up.

JWT is the one way to make less than ideal power on an sr.. they tune much too conservatively. You will see better power gains on just a Z32 maf, AFC, and 555cc injectors!

As far as you saying it will greatly decrease the lifespan of your motor, by running these power levels, let me say that Scott's been running his car at 360+ wheel hosrepower every time he drives it (3 to 4 times a week) for the past 5 months. Scott and Glenn (400whp stock bottom end) both are on stock head gaskets you guys.. See what good tuning time invested can do !

Why don't you guys catch me on aim if you want to make some real power. It seems dauntless obviously knows how to make the power, since he doesn't spend 20 hours a week helping out at a dyno shop, doenst have a swap in his own car, and only puts down 120 to the wheels if he's lucky. anybody can sell parts, i help realize their power.

Post by **Jubs180** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

hrmmgood way to make friends here.others in the past have tried to impress everyone here with their "knowledge".... they have failed.

coming here and then offering your thoughts and ideas in a productive way may be helpful.not being overly cocky and insulting Daunttless.

I don't know if thats how you are or not..but thats what you're showing in this thread.

I am still determining which swap to aim for.. an SR or a CA

which do you have?I see your friends have swaps, so do many peoples friends.

Post by **mattback** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

Try neither motor.

Remember Unstable Hybrids project S13 that they could never get a title for?

Long story short, i bought the mounts and found a car to put the stuff in.

I have a Z31 that was running 12.5's @ 14psi before i kept breaking the 180 thousand mile driveline parts

diff , transmission, another diff, cltuch, driveshaft, axle+diff+subframeive since started 'upgrading' to a newer S-chassis for my motor.

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

mattback wrote:OH god where to begin. First let me say this.

With the proper tuning, the limits of the red top are VERY VERY high. Two very good friends of mine , Glenn and Scott, are both well over 370 WHEEL horsepower for months now, and have not had problems with anything but driveline parts. These numbers are done on t3/t04e turbochargers at approximately 20 pounds of boost.

I don't think that anybody was arguing that. I can tune a stock internal motor to last a few months at 400 HP. I think *years* was more of the thought for reliability goes.

Quote »Soggy boost response is because of poor exhaust wheel chocies and too large of an A/R On the exhaust housing. For almost all SR's and 8.5:1 compression, there is almost no need to run anything larger than a .70 A/R. The .63 t3 exhaust housing is ideal for any SR20DET that has any sort of redline below 7800 RPM. There is just not enough flow to merit the .82 A/R housing. You guys can disagree with me, but I have dyno graphs to back this statement up.

JWT is the one way to make less than ideal power on an sr.. they tune much too conservatively. You will see better power gains on just a Z32 maf, AFC, and 555cc injectors! [/quote]

The idea behind a JWT is not to make the ultimate power. They admittingly tune conservatively. That is why cars with JWT ECU's tend to last longer. Sure you can make more power with an AFC, but you also have to tune it yourself. A JWT ECU is plug and play, no guess work involved. If you don't know how to tune a car, a JWT ECU is a good choice for fuel management. Also, this way you build in a safety factor. If you tune it yourself, you tend to tune it to the limits, which is not good in the long run. Unless ofcourse, you spend hours upon hours on a dyno and tweaking the fuel map with a full management system, NOT an AFC.

Quote »As far as you saying it will greatly decrease the lifespan of your motor, by running these power levels, let me say that Scott's been running his car at 360+ wheel hosrepower every time he drives it (3 to 4 times a week) for the past 5 months. Scott and Glenn (400whp stock bottom end) both are on stock head gaskets you guys.. See what good tuning time invested can do ![/quote]

Like I said before... I don't consider "5 months" a long time. We want to build motors that last for years, not months. With that kind of lifespan, a larger safety margin must be implemented.

Quote »Why don't you guys catch me on aim if you want to make some real power. It seems dauntless obviously knows how to make the power, since he doesn't spend 20 hours a week helping out at a dyno shop, doenst have a swap in his own car, and only puts down 120 to the wheels if he's lucky. anybody can sell parts, i help realize their power. [/quote]

Um....so what if his car doesn't put down huge power right now....it's under development! If I pull the motor out of my car to build it, are you going to tell me I'm stupid because my car doesn't make any power?

Also, big deal you work 20 hrs a week at a dyno shop. Daunttless is opening his OWN dyno shop. Doesn't that tell you something?? And I don't know who the line about selling parts was supposed to be aimed at, but it better not be Daunttless. Because Afterdark will be primarily doing work on cars, making power, NOT selling parts. Apparently you haven't checked out the website. Because if you have, you would realize that it's not just a parts store.

Post by **mattback** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

to each his own as he posted.

from talking to him he doenst realy seem to know enough about how to make things work in order to really do a good job tuning.i hope that you will be able to do a better job or at least do the work in theshop while he sells the parts.

thats good that hes got the 45 thousand dollars to buy a dynojet 248c. its the best one out there in my opnion. to hell with those dsmers if they want to dyno they can weld the center diff and pull the driveshaft!

i dont feel with a 2835 you will make 350 whp. not on pump gas at least and not with a stock head. why dont you get on your dyno and prove it then!

Post by **Daunttless** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

I was trying to make a point with the s-afc, it was a bit of an exaggeration.

I rather like the 248 as well.

I know a GT2835, with a .86 A/R Turbine will make at least 350 to the ground.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

20 hours... **** man Ive lived tuning cars for the past 5 years. Bashing someone, especially a well respected MODERATOR, is just gay. 400whp aint ****... try tuning 971whp out of a Y2K powered Supra w/o N20! Also keep in mind that a larger A/R on the exhaust side helps to flow the gasses at higher boost levels. It can make for more lag but in the end makes more power because as im sure you already know, since you know everything it seems, gasses at 1400+ degrees hold a greater volume than gasses at 400 degrees, a simple law of gases and thermodynamics. Got a lag problem... thats why we use nitrous. A small shot of N20 can get a large turbo spinning because of its higher exhaust temps and fuel burning capability. Just because you know what a ****ing A/R ratio is doesnt make you a genius. Im getting tired of little bench racing punks like you that think you know more than everyone else.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

ITR_KILLR wrote:I dont understand why the dual ball-bearing GTBB37 would have "soggy" boost response? what about the GT2835 instead of the 2530, would this not be a better choice, i don't want to be maxing out the turbo. I really didn't want to use a t3/t4, but after seeing some numbers from the CTC turbo kit, I'm interested, what are your thoughts on this kit? also, would it be acceptable to use a S13 blacktop in a 97-98 since I would be ditchin the factory slug, or is it easier to use the s14 det?

( I can't wait to see how the RB26DETT swap goes!, if I had the cash, I would go for it!)

thanks:)

The CTC kit is one of the most overpriced kits ive seen in a while for the power it produces. There are better and more affordable ways to make more power. Its a waste of money.

Jesse

Theres an add on autotrader for magnum turbo they are producting maaaaajor power w/ their custom SR kits. I dont know any of there prices, but imo, there manifolds, and what is included with the kit will produce more power.

Post by **ITR_KILLR** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

this may be a stupid question but, if you decide to go JWT, do you send them your silvia ecu to program, and use the silvia harness or is there a way to use the KA and stock harness

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

im sure someone knows...but the best thing would be to email JWT....

jesse

Post by **Movingviolation240** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

If you do the KA harness option, you have to run a distributor, and that right off the bat sucks up like 10hp, then you have to cut and re-wire various connectors, which is a major pain. Just do it right the first time and run an SR harness.

later,PaulOrlando, FL

Post by **ITR_KILLR** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

If I use a Z32 maf and upgrade the injs, do i send the silvia ecu to JWT?

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

ITR_KILLR wrote:If I use a Z32 maf and upgrade the injs, do i send the silvia ecu to JWT?

Yeah, JWT will upgrade and reprogram any ECU (which already purchased from JWT) with the new programs for $100. So if you upgrade injectors and your MAF, send the ECU to them and $100 and they send it back to you with the correct program.

If you have a stock silvia ECU though, and upgrade injectors and MAF, JWT will want to charge their full price. Because you are not sending them a JWT ECU to update, you are sending them an OEM ECU which means nothing to them.

Post by **ITR_KILLR** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:37 pm

****....I've already sent my 200 ecu to JWT 3 times, ah well, whats another $600.

Info on 240setups

Info on 240setups

Re: Info on 240setups

Oh god, time to dissspell myths... here goes

Re: Oh god, time to dissspell myths... here goes

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