Inflating tires with pure nitrogen

[Victor]

Just got all my tires filled with nitrogen at Costco. Consumers reports did a test on nitrogen filled tires compared to air filled tires (air is 79% nitrogen). They took several pairs of identical tires, and filled one of the pair with air and the other with pure nitrogen. They then let them sit for a year and measured the pressure remaining. They found the nitrogen filled tires only leaked out one third the amount that the air filled tires did.One thing I learned today. You should always do the final check of the tire pressure with the car being supported by the tires, not while the tire is raised off the ground or unmounted. I assume the reason is that if you inflated the tire to say 35 pounds with it off the car, when the weight of the car was put on it it would compress a little and raise the tire pressure above what it should be.My own experience with nitrogen filled tires confirms their data. Since I have been using pure nitrogen I almost never have to add air to my tires when I check the pressure.

[maxnix]

Two things.

One, if one is not in a pure nitrogen atmosphere when the tires are mounted, one is not getting a pure nitorgen fill. Most Costco shops I have seen work in atmospheric conditions, much to the employee's relief.

The main advantage over air that nitorgen has besides uniformity is that it is dry. Most compressors at service stations do not purge the water from their systems. Therefore, always fill those tires with nitrogen and not air to maintain the performance advantages of the mostly nitrogen fill.

[northt]

T

Two things.

One, if one is not in a pure nitrogen atmosphere when the tires are mounted, one is not getting a pure nitorgen fill. Most Costco shops I have seen work in atmospheric conditions, much to the employee's relief.

The main advantage over air that nitorgen has besides uniformity is that it is dry. Most compressors at service stations do not purge the water from their systems. Therefore, always fill those tires with nitrogen and not air to maintain the performance advantages of the mostly nitrogen fill.

That's why they use it in aircraft tires and in racing. Not because there is much of any advantage to Nitrogen itself. I don't mind checking my tire pressure every couple of weeks, and I do not plan to subject my tires to extreme temperature variation experienced by aircraft and race cars. I do not need to control the coeffiecient of expansion so closely.

[Victor]

I asked the Costco guy why they left the Nitrogen chuck hooked up to the tires for so long. He said the machine first sucked all but 3% of the air out of the tire, and then purged it with nitrogen. By 3% I assume they mean 3% above ambient air pressure, because if it was 3% of ambient air pressure the tire would collapse from the vacuum. Their literature also says that pure nitrogen is less subject to pressure variations as the tire heats up as you drive, but don't know about that as Nitrogen has to follow the same gas laws as air. The fact that the nitrogen is dry and an inert gas would probably cause less deterioration to the inside of the tire and corrosion to the inside of the rim.

[SteveTheTech]

I have seen the marketing on Nitro tires the benefits being increased fuel economy although its supposedly <1%, less deflation over time. That I have seen it is due to the larger molecular construction. If you check your tires and keep them inflated properly you should have the same benefit.

In reading about this I have come to the realization that there is a lot of half truths on the internet about this subject.

Letting the tires sit for a year does not subject them to normal use, which includes significant temperature changes, potholes and solar radiation. Although I get where they are going with the analysis. I am trying to find out what real world results of rolling resistance are using the same tires on the same car. Sounds like something to suggest to the Mythbusters.

[kevinis]

I don't know about the car dealers in the areas where all of you live, but the GM dealersaround here are advertising the glories of nitrogen filled tires and charging abouta hundred bucks to fill your tires with it.

Pretty funny when Costco has been doing it for free (for several years now) when you buy your tires there.

My Q has plain ole air in it as the tires that came on it are still good and not from costco.I'll just check them once a month until they wear and then go to Costco when it's time for new ones.

[maxnix]

I'll just check them once a month until they wear and then go to Costco when it's time for new ones.

I got kicked out of the Costco tire shop in Shoreline (Seattle) for discussing why the pressure had to be at 35 psi for load bearing considerations instead of their preferred 29 psi. The manager was a total doofus.

[96Qowner]

I got kicked out of the Costco tire shop in Shoreline (Seattle) for discussing why the pressure had to be at 35 psi for load bearing considerations instead of their preferred 29 psi. The manager was a total doofus.

Brian, I am surprised! Your own tactful self? Nah, tell me it ain' so!

[Q45tech]

Remember air is 75%+ Nitrogen, so the question is should you use 99% or 75%?

What would happen if 500 million vehices used and sequestered CO2 instead of air in tires.

[qship96]

I got kicked out of the Costco tire shop in Shoreline (Seattle) for discussing why the pressure had to be at 35 psi for load bearing considerations instead of their preferred 29 psi. The manager was a total doofus.

Typical morons that inhabit {work?} at most every tire/automotive establishment.

YesterdayI visited a Tirerack "preferred provider" shop to get my new tires installed.....all 4 new tires were inflated to different pressures, and they put the spare tire back in the well without even checking its pressure{it was only 25 lbs low!} They tried real hard to sell me a 4 wheel alignment to make up for the small ticket price of $66 for tire installation that they advertised on TR website-almost went for it, until I asked if they would guarantee to set parameters to exact factory specs, not "in the range"....when he gave me the wrong answer about setting the thrust angle to 0.00000 "we will get it close".....I declined the alignment as it probobly would have come out in worse condition than it went in with!!!

Why is it so hard to find a real "car guy" working in the automotive business????

[maxnix]

Time to audition some more installers. I know of 2 great ones here, but Firstone shops are also recommended, but I try not to even drive by those locations.

[qship96]

Nothing like leaving the tire shop, hitting the first gas station with an air hose, re-inflating your new tires to the correct pressure....then getting home and pulling out the torque wrench to correctly tighten the lugs..... then washing the interior/exterior of their grime. sometimes I think it would be easier to just get a lift, mounting machine, and balancer for the house and do it yourself!

[maxnix]

Much easier if you have the space and capital!

[SteveTheTech]

That's pretty harsh treatment for people who are just trying to do their jobs.

You need to understand that you own a 12 year old luxury car, there is only so much adjustment in those eccentrics. Normal wear and tear on the suspension components is normal over time and you may want to think about having a professional take care if it.

My father always told me "You get what you paid for", this is a prime example of that theory.If you took your car to the dealer for service you would have received a loaner, car wash, and factory trained professionals.Just a little food for thought.

[qship96]

That's pretty harsh treatment for people who are just trying to do their jobs.

You need to understand that you own a 12 year old luxury car, there is only so much adjustment in those eccentrics. Normal wear and tear on the suspension components is normal over time and you may want to think about having a professional take care if it.

My father always told me "You get what you paid for", this is a prime example of that theory.If you took your car to the dealer for service you would have received a loaner, car wash, and factory trained professionals.Just a little food for thought.

If I took my car to the dealer, they probobly wouldnt have installed the tires I purchased elsewhere....and if they did, chances are the person installing them would not be a certified infiniti tech, but a typical poorly trained helper no better than the ones at the tire dealer!{I`ve seen the help wanted ads for inexperienced help at almost EVERY car dealer in the area, including the almighty Infiniti & Lexus stores}

As far as the wash, no thank you..again young inxperienced flunkies, that can turn a perfectly polished paint surface into swirl city in less than 30 minutes.

As far as your comment about trying to do their jobs.....I dont think it is expecting too much as a paying customer to expect a set of tires to be installed and all inflated to the proper pressures

[SteveTheTech]

There's just no need a be so negative about it.

I mount and balance tires and perform simple tasks like oil changes and alignments all the time. If you have a positive attitude and maybe ask to speak with the person who will be servicing your car maybe they will be able to get you out of your notion that all service people are grease monkeys.

I know in my shop only the more senior guys get the older cars because the younger kids don't know how they work as well. Everyone needs to start their education somewhere, personally I started at Jiffy Lube when I was 15. All of the apprentices we hire are trained for two years, by the time they are out they have a good understanding of the product and how they work.

[NightRiderQ45]

Steve and qship both have valid points...usually most people are burned though! I took my car to a oil change spot (brought in my own oil/filter) and watched the guy change my oil. I gave him 6qts but told him to use 5.5qts. He looked at me and said, "well, I always fill up every car a half quart over because the engine sucks up the oil" ! I asked him where does it go if the engine sucks it up like a sponge?? He couldn't give me an answer of course. At that point I stood there and watched him change my oil.

While I was in there, I asked for him to rotate my tires too. This idiot stripped two studs per wheel! I was pissed! Something that suppoes to take 15 mins max ended up taking 2hrs. Well of course they replaced the lugnuts and studs for free. The manager ended up firing him that day.

To the OP, I think I'll just keep using the FREE air at my local gas station.

[maxnix]

The problem with gas station air these days and their dedicated pay pumps in particular is the air is not dried and is moisture laden. Good idea to have a cylinder of N2 at home for topping off.

Steve and Qship96 have valid points. As always, caveat emptor! Trust, but verify.

[SteveTheTech]

I can understand thisd debate from both sides here I have seen and recieived poor service,but I know how I treat other peoples' cars.

I cannot speak for all people who turn wrenches inone form or another,as there are some people who suck badly at it. My issue is with generalized statements. If you go to a crap place expect crap service.

For the educated consumer there are places you can go where you will recieve satisfactory service, you may have to pay for it though.

[qship96]

First off Steve I didnt go to a "crap place" and did pay for my service, second, going to a "high price" place is NO guarantee of recieving quality service.......THE BEST SHOP{or an other type of business, be it home repair/remodeling or even a medical practice} is only as good as their worst lazy, drug/alcohol impared, dishonest , unmotivated, incompetant or poorly trained employee .....It only takes ONE bad apple

As a customer......one has the expectancy and right to to recieve quality service for their hard earned dollar.....especially on a job as fu**** simple as properly mounting/balancing a set of tires....for you to even question that is great cause of concern.....Maybe you need to raise your level of standards,instead of thinking the consumer should lower theirs.

As always, it is wise to "INSPECT WHAT YOU EXPECT"

[SteveTheTech]

I'm cautiously optomistic, I give the benefit of the doubt until I have a reason not too. Do you treat all people in the service industry like that?

The only people that get crap treatment from me are salesmen, that's just because I dont like them.

[Jesda]

I fill with helium to reduce unsprung weight.

[SteveTheTech]

I'm not asking you compromise on anything.n You are free to act however top whomever you like.

I will give you the statement that it only takes one bad apple to ruin an experience with anything. If you have a pi*s poor attitude I am not surprised that you have recieved bad service.

[SteveTheTech]

I use propane, since I would never ever cook with it it has to be good for something.

[qship96]

I'm not asking you compromise on anything.n You are free to act however top whomever you like.

I will give you the statement that it only takes one bad apple to ruin an experience with anything. If you have a pi*s poor attitude I am not surprised that you have recieved bad service.

UGH! Guess by your comments and how you defend poor service, I am figuring you would be just another disappointment as far as getting quality, competant service...... At least we know what side of the fence you stand on......What Infiniti dealer do you work at????? Being in the Balt/Wash area, I want to make sure I cross that one off my list.

To clarify something for you Steve.....the vast majority of educated consumers only develop a "piss poor attitude" as you call it, as a RESULT of recieving piss poor service.......not surprisingly,you have it azz backwards

[NightRiderQ45]

To clarify something for you Steve.....the vast majority of educated consumers only develop a "piss poor attitude" as you call it, as a RESULT of recieving piss poor service.......not surprisingly,you have it azz backwards

Exactly! There is a reason why we have to stand there and watch someone do something as simple as a oil change! I hate the fact that I can't change my own oil now!!

[SteveTheTech]

Alright I am going to break this down for you real simply.

I am not taking the side of anyone who provides bad service. They should be held accountable for their actions.

I personnally have one of the highest customer satifaction ratings in the entire metro area.I work very hard to to ensure customer satisfaction and that everything I work on is fixed right the first time.

I am not trying to argue with you, I just wanted to give you the other side as I have read posts like yours several times and feel that you are perpetuating a stereotype, not all people who fix cars for a living are idiots and some of us take pride in what we do.

Your in real estate there are shady stupid people there as well, I know this from my own dealings with realtors. We are in fact on the same side here. I am just offering you my side of the story do with it what you want.

[qship96]

Yes,There are bad apples in EVERY type of business....as I mentioned in my earlier post....certainly there are quite a few in my profession{Realtor}, HOWEVER, I would NEVER stick up, side with, or try to defend incompetant service from a poor Realtor........NOR would I try to turn it around and state the Realtor was providing pisspoor crappy service because the customer was difficult to deal with and had a "pisspoor attitude"

To defend the bad apples in ones own industry is a surefire path to damaging ones own reputation and credibility.....and perpetuate the erosion of competant quality service.

[SteveTheTech]

I really don't see it as taking their side and retract my previous statement where I sided with anyone providing shotty service, they should indeed not be working in this field. The reputation as a whole has been tarnished and needs to be corrected.

If I were there with you during the original situation I am sure we would have shared the same sentiment.Outside of work I have very little patience for incompetance of any kind. I think that we are on the same page.

It's just a bit of a touchy subject to me as I have done everything in my power to remove that type of work from my shop now and every one I have worked in. I raelly want everything that goes out the door to be perfect and I try to instill the concept of treat as if it was your mothers car into my co workers.

Originally I was just trying to say that we are not all incompetant.

[qship96]

Glad to see we are both playing on the uncrowded same side of the fence.