Infiniti = Lincoln = Acura? Sure seems to be going that way

[MinisterofDOOM]

Sure looks like that's where we're headed to me.

http://ncom80th.com/reporter/en/2013/08/30/global_1801/

The one question I would LOVE to ask Mr. de Nysschen is when he's going to rescind his asinine no-more-V8s rule. Sure, BMW, MB, and Audi might offer non-V8 ALTERNATIVE engines. But everything that really matters is still V8. EVERY luxury-brand halo car that matters has a boosted V8 right now. ALL of them. Infiniti can't matter without following suit.

Maser has a TT 3.8
Audi has a TT 4.0
Jag has an S/C 5.0
BMW has a TT 4.4
MB has a TT 4.6
Cadillac has the LT1 and is working on a modern DOHC Northstar replacement to sit above the LF3 V6. Caddy could easily pull an Infiniti and say "no, the LF3 is just fine" but they're not nearly stupid enough to do that...not after the tremendous success (both sales-wise and as a brand icon) of the V8-powered V-series cars!

Only Acura, Lincoln, and Infiniti are stupid enough to think you can play in that arena with only dated V6s. And, uh...I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but Acura and Lincoln aren't exactly very successful brands. Meanwhile, V8-loving BMW and Audi rule the roost.

EVERYTHING THAT MATTERS in todays premium-brand marketplace has a V8. I don't give a damn what you think about CAFE, gas prices, or the whining habits of modern carbuyers. The fact is the marketplace is full of halo cars with 8 cylinders and air compressors AND THEY SELL JUST FINE. If Infiniti can't get with the program, they're going to be just as relevant in the luxury market as Acura.

And if we ever needed a sign that people don't ACTUALLY want tiny engines in their luxmobiles, Infiniti's own DECEASED G25 should be a pretty damn good indicator. Why did it get killed off? BECAUSE NO ONE WAS BUYING IT. Stop trying to appear green and build cars people want to buy.

I cannot imagine buying a theoretical Infiniti "halo" car with a turbo 3 liter V6 when I could get an XJR, M6 Gran Coupe, S7 or S8, or Quattroporte with real engines. If you want to OFFER smaller engines, great, go for it! But don't arbitrarily restrict yourselves from being an actual competitor in your own game!

Ford has admitted that Lincoln is TEN YEARS away from being a real player in the luxury game. Acura doesn't admit anything, but by Lincoln's scale I'd put them at more like 17 years out. Infiniti IS ALREADY THERE and they're deliberately walking away!!!!

[OriginalWheelman]

They don't get that luxury cars are about gratification. Part of that is saying "hell no" when they guy in the s*** box tries to grab the space in traffic you're going for. It's those brief moments, when the V8 gets woken up from it's daily hum drum to throw the big lux mobile into that spot before the Cavalier gets it. NO ONE wants to spend all that money on a car and get slapped around in traffic by cars that cost half as much, even if they aren't as pretty / comfortable, no ESPECIALLY if they aren't. Modern V8s are good on gas when you're easy on them. And they get off the line faster with less effort than an I6 or V6. TORQUE.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Modern V8s are good on gas when you're easy on them.

Yup. I make the 240 mile between Rexburg and Salt Lake very regularly. At 80mph, I still manage 29mpg. Engine speed never exceeds 2500rpm at any point, and I never downshift, even on steeper mountain stretches (of which there are plenty). At the hilly sections, I watch fewer-cylindered cars go shooting past trying to carry momentum into the hill. I just chug right on up, the AJ35 completely unphased and happily cruising in overdrive. The "economical" PentaStar V6 I drove a while back? It'd drop two or even three gears at the slightest hint of an incline or increased engine load. It got irritating in a hurry, reminding me strongly of the bad old days of 1980s 4-speed overdrive automatics and dopey cruise control...constantly hunting for the right gear. That's not efficient! What's the point of having thirty million gears if you have to drop into third anytime you actually need more than half a gerbil' worth of power?

[WDRacing]

My old a** 1999 BMW 540i gets slightly worse mileage than my wifes Dart at 80-85 mph. At 55 it kills me, but at real hwy speeds we're pretty close to the same, bout 28mpg. This is with an old V8 with disfunctional variable valve timing and 187,xxx miles.

This difference is I can drop the hammer and disappear into the horizon when ever I feel the need.

I'll take my engine with as many cubes as possible please!

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I don't really care how they do it, but power on demand, good fuel economy, and a good exhaust note are all good things in my book. If they can achieve that with a turbo 6, great. NA 12 cylinder? Whatever.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I don't necessarily disagree. There are a couple things to consider, though, which lead me to making this same rant so often:

1: WE CAN'T DO THOSE THINGS WITH THOSE ENGINES yet. Yey we're still giving up on what works. You don't throw out a good solution when you don't at least have an equivalent ready to deploy. I'd love to say I have faith that Nissan/Infiniti have some world-changing 3 liter six up their sleaves, just ready to release. But I can't. Not honestly.
It's the same situation we're looking at with electrics, as an example. Yes, down the road, we will get there. We are not there yet. Ultra-greenies say "give up gas, go electric" and electric just doesn't do it. The same kind of hippie-a** mindset leads to crap like this, where we give up PERFECTLY GOOD V8 powerplants without an equivalent replacement. Even the VR38DETT has trouble equalling the torque capabilities of a VK56VD. And the VR38 is VASTLY more costly to build, service, and operate.

Yes. Please. Bring on the day when sixes do what 8s do. Except it'll never happen, even though it constatly does. Because of point number 2:

2: EVERYTHING that can be applied to improving fours, sixes, or any other engine ALSO APPLIES TO EIGHTS. And it applies alongside the benefits that are already present. There are innate qualities of the V8 that make it superior to sixes and fours. You make a four really efficient? YOU CAN DO IT TO AN EIGHT. You make 300 ft-lb from a four? Make seven hundred from an eight! Add turbos to a four to make it more scalable? Imagine what happens when you apply that to a platform that was already innately scalable! Imagine what happens when you take something that was NOT peaky and coarse from the start. Imagine what happens when you combine that with better breathing, cylinder deactivation, and better balances of stroke and bore.

I've yet to hear anything that convinces me that the V8 is not still superior. You can talk downsizing DISPLACEMENT all you want. But when you hide from V8s just to look green, you're just being stubbornly stupid. A 3 liter V8 will do everything a 3 liter V6 will do. Better. EVERYTHING.

V8s are the past, the present, and the future of the gasoline automobile. Anyone denying this is securing their own irrelevance.

At the end of the day, it's this simple:
If you take the best, and improve the best, you have the best. If you take the worst, and improve it, it's still not the best. Not unless you purposely ignore the best in the name of image and political correctness or even just "being different." All of which are stupid. The only way to make a six that's as good as an 8 is to stop advancing the 8. Why the Hell would you do that?

[WDRacing]

I dunno Chris, what about the old mid 80's technology that combined a pushrod 3.8 liter with a little boost? That Buick motor made as much power as most modern day V8's and it did so without variable BS or direct blah blah blah.

A boosted 6 can easily make gobs of torque and do so without breaking the bank. So the answer isn't necessarily V8 or bust. It's more like, stop being f*** retarded and ignoring easy options in favor of high tech whizzbang BS that nobody really wants. I'd take a big cube turbo 6 over a NA V8 pretty much every time.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I think another problem is the current EPA vs Real world fuel economy discrepancies. Maybe things will change when the EPA changes the way they rate vehicles.

[Bubba1]

I think another problem is the current EPA vs Real world fuel economy discrepancies. Maybe things will change when the EPA changes the way they rate vehicles.

^ This, Plus the tougher CAFE standards that are coming in the near future. I think CAFE is among the main driving forces behind Nissan and other manufacturers looking away from V8's.


As someone whose owned/driven every possible engine configuration ( well, except a V16), I personally think V12 is better than a V8 , But that aside, I don't think the number of cylinders in the motor determines the quality of the driving experience.

What enthusiast doesn't love the sound of a rumbling V8 and it's low end grunt? Sure, with an extra tall top gear, that torque can allow one to extract pretty good gas mileage at sustained highway speeds. Problem is, sustained highway driving is not the only type of driving we Americans do. And like it or not EPA's current formula includes other types of driving, which make other configurations competitive.

[Jesda]

Indeed. Luxury is about having more than you need -- power, comfort, technology, CHOICES. A V8 MUST BE available among V6s, TT V6s, I6s, and TT 4s.

It's nice to have more efficient, less powerful options but it's best to offer everything. That's the key to the prestige and higher transaction prices that come with operating a luxury brand. You have to go beyond necessity and offer excess.

[Looneybomber]

Indeed. Luxury is about having more than you need -- power, comfort, technology, CHOICES. A V8 MUST BE available among V6s, TT V6s, I6s, and TT 4s.

It's nice to have more efficient, less powerful options but it's best to offer everything. That's the key to the prestige and higher transaction prices that come with operating a luxury brand. You have to go beyond necessity and offer excess.

Jesda nailed it. Choices are needed with V8 (or larger) options available. That's why ultra luxury (Aston, Rolls, Bugatti, etc...) have 12+ cylinder options even though a boosted 8 would be more suitable when it comes to balanced performance.